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Caught on cam: Bicycle crushed by tanker truck

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Caught on cam: Bicycle crushed by tanker truck

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Old 07-11-18, 05:55 PM
  #101  
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Originally Posted by Rollfast View Post
And one last thing...triple trailer rigs usually head straight to the delivery point or shipping center and unload or scan, relump before returning to the road. Or the truck stop. I've seen local drivers who park their bobtails next to their house or in their driveway too.

But no, you can't get multiple trailers through most city traffic, that's why they make 'truck routes'.
One exception seems to be gasoline tankers. When I was growing up, we had "double bottom" tankers in my state, and after a number of spectacular crashses, they were outlawed. The truckers argued that they needed the flexibility of a double trailer to get in and out of the smaller gas stations. In any event the gas stations all got rebuilt due to leaking underground tanks anyway, and the new ones can accommodate a regular tank truck.
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Old 07-11-18, 11:04 PM
  #102  
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Got a close call today.
I went for a short ride at evening - mostly flat on paved trail.
There is a secondary trail that connects to the main one, and a lady comes out on her bike and turns left and her husband/partner stops.
So, I just kept pumping but when I get to the T, a little bike shows up and if I were 1 second later probably had crashed with the little kid.

Lesson learned - will slow down next time in this kind of situation.
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Old 07-11-18, 11:58 PM
  #103  
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Maybe we could just install underground gas and diesel lines to the stations, and no need to drive the tankers through town.

For that matter, run the lines to the houses, so one can just fill up in the garage.
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Old 07-12-18, 12:03 AM
  #104  
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There was that horrible natural gas pipeline explosion a few years ago that caused fatalities, if you had forgotten.

Or was that a petroleum pipeline that was breached by excavations...

anyway it killed two kids.
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Old 07-12-18, 12:25 AM
  #105  
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Originally Posted by mr_bill View Post
Again, all front steering vehicles “off-track.” Even bicycles, which you can prove to yourself trivially.

-mr. bill
If you spent any time in this city watching people drive you'd understand the veracity of my original statement.
But you haven't so keep on chirping..........
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Old 07-12-18, 01:31 AM
  #106  
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Originally Posted by tungsten View Post
As I said above "off-track" is a concept unimaginable to most of the general public. Possibly even to the driver of that rig. lol...
Any driver pulling a trailer from a country pickup driver to a big rig driver is aware that the trailer generally follows inside of the vehicle turn.
Originally Posted by mr_bill View Post
Again, all front steering vehicles “off-track.” Even bicycles, which you can prove to yourself trivially.
However, trailer off-tracking is not uniform with trailer types.

As I mentioned in another post a while ago, log truck trailers track much better than other big rig trailers (and, thus, are safer on narrow winding roads).

It is quite possible that a log truck could have made that turn without hopping the curb and crushing the woman's bike, although certainly they aren't without danger.

Last edited by CliffordK; 07-12-18 at 01:35 AM.
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Old 07-12-18, 04:38 AM
  #107  
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Originally Posted by tungsten View Post
If you spent any time in this city watching people drive you'd understand the veracity of my original statement.
But you haven't so keep on chirping..........
Originally Posted by mr_bill View Post
Sorry, got out of town just before "Winter Storm Juno." In Vancouver BC for a bit, got out for another ride instead of lunch. Brought a camera this time.

....

-mr. bill
A month, but who’s counting....

-mr. bill

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Old 07-12-18, 10:21 AM
  #108  
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Originally Posted by mr_bill View Post
A month, but who’s counting....

-mr. bill
Zero vision!
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Old 07-12-18, 11:24 AM
  #109  
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Originally Posted by MikeyMK View Post
A very similar incident crushed a female cyclist to death, did it not?
This is a story from Minneapolis in 2011, Audrey (Kimberly Yeong Sil) Hull crushed by side-dumper on U of MN campus - https://www.twincities.com/2011/04/2...-in-dinkytown/

My take on this story - I understand the turning radius of heavy trucks because I drove them for years. But it's total BS to expect every road user to understand the room a heavy truck needs, it is the commercial drivers responsibility to know the space around their vehicle is clear and safe while driving on public streets.
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Old 07-12-18, 12:31 PM
  #110  
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Originally Posted by KraneXL View Post
The cyclist did nothing wrong. The only thing she is guilty of is her keen sense of her surroundings and quick response to an imminent threat. The lesson to be leaned here is no different than that of defensive driving: watch out for rogue drivers not paying attention to the road.
You're making the assumption the truck driver did not check his mirrors or is not paying attention. Humans are no where near perfect. Perhaps he did check his mirrors and honestly did not see her. Now what? This is why drivers are often not cited. We don't hang people for an honest accident. In public, nothing is 100%. Let's be adults here.

I would hang the truck driver IF the cyclist had cleared the front of the truck and then he had re-passed her and THEN right hooked her. That is negligence. But I don't think she passed him. She hung next to him. When I'm coming up onto a trucker, I look into his mirror to see if he sees me. If not, I'm staying behind.

She's riding along without a clue of what is going on. She put herself into that bad position. Hopefully she'll learn not to do that again, but I'm doubtful. Too many cyclists assume they are seen. As an operator of a vehicle that is much smaller, the majority of the responsibility for your safety, Is you.

When you're 6 feet under, it doesn't matter who's fault it is.
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Old 07-12-18, 12:42 PM
  #111  
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Originally Posted by HBCruiser1 View Post
You're making the assumption the truck driver did not check his mirrors or is not paying attention. Humans are no where near perfect. Perhaps he did check his mirrors and honestly did not see her. Now what? This is why drivers are often not cited. We don't hang people for an honest accident. In public, nothing is 100%. Let's be adults here.
When I worked for UPS, they reinforced that there are no "accidents". Drivers had a one strike and out.
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Old 07-12-18, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Hypno Toad View Post
When I worked for UPS, they reinforced that there are no "accidents". Drivers had a one strike and out.
Good for them (pat on head). I'll continue to count on myself for my safety.
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Old 07-12-18, 01:02 PM
  #113  
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Originally Posted by HBCruiser1 View Post
Good for them (pat on head). I'll continue to count on myself for my safety.
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Old 07-12-18, 01:19 PM
  #114  
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What it means not to “see” something that is visible in one’s mirror or field of vision is an interesting question on the cognitive and ethical/legal levels. Just saying that, however, explains nothing and should not be considered exculpatory.
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Old 07-12-18, 01:40 PM
  #115  
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Originally Posted by Hypno Toad View Post
My take on this story - I understand the turning radius of heavy trucks because I drove them for years. But it's total BS to expect every road user to understand the room a heavy truck needs
I suppose I'm sitting here wondering WHY one shouldn't expect road users to understand road safety.

I can remember warnings about trucks from long before I started driving.

I'm trying to think back to the State Driver's manual. Perhaps I'll snag another (new) copy.

I think most of it concentrated on the rules of the road. Signs, lanes, turning, etc.

However, it also needs a section on sharing the road with other road users (bikes, cars, trucks, etc). And, if half the road users have towed a trailer sometime, there should even be instruction on small trailers.
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Old 07-12-18, 01:51 PM
  #116  
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Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
I suppose I'm sitting here wondering WHY one shouldn't expect road users to understand road safety.

I can remember warnings about trucks from long before I started driving.

I'm trying to think back to the State Driver's manual. Perhaps I'll snag another (new) copy.

I think most of it concentrated on the rules of the road. Signs, lanes, turning, etc.

However, it also needs a section on sharing the road with other road users (bikes, cars, trucks, etc). And, if half the road users have towed a trailer sometime, there should even be instruction on small trailers.
I think he's referring specifically to the level of understeer shown in the OP, not that trucks aren't dangerous.

A friend of the family had his son's foot crushed by a semi trailer that went up over a curb. The driver knew they were waiting at this corner for the crosswalk and still managed to misjudge and send his rear wheels heading right for this kid. It is no different than the OP lady failing to realize that the rear of the truck wasn't going to follow the same line as the front.
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Old 07-12-18, 02:01 PM
  #117  
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Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
I suppose I'm sitting here wondering WHY one shouldn't expect road users to understand road safety.

I can remember warnings about trucks from long before I started driving.

I'm trying to think back to the State Driver's manual. Perhaps I'll snag another (new) copy.

I think most of it concentrated on the rules of the road. Signs, lanes, turning, etc.

However, it also needs a section on sharing the road with other road users (bikes, cars, trucks, etc). And, if half the road users have towed a trailer sometime, there should even be instruction on small trailers.
I got this in driver's ed....like... 40 years ago. We got all kinds of training about the "unwritten rules of the road", not just the legal stuff about speed limits and signs, but conventions, etiquette, how to analyze risk on the move, etc. It's ingrained in my mind, but I don't think "kids these days" (get off my lawn) get that in driver training anymore. I know in Texas there is a "parent taught" path to a drivers license, which means a student driver is only going to get the knowledge he or she has been exposed to growing up, and if the parents have holes in their driving knowledge, those same holes are passed down.
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Originally Posted by bragi "However, it's never a good idea to overgeneralize."
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Old 07-12-18, 02:11 PM
  #118  
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Originally Posted by Doohickie View Post
I know in Texas there is a "parent taught" path to a drivers license, which means a student driver is only going to get the knowledge he or she has been exposed to growing up, and if the parents have holes in their driving knowledge, those same holes are passed down.
I learned from my parents. My grandfather drove a truck, so I got some safety tidbits from that too.

Oregon has a driver's manual one gets for free at the DMV, and I read it cover to cover... well... over 35 years ago. So, hopefully it filled in some of the holes in my parent's knowledge.

I know a few things have changed in my lifetime including new road markings (those triangle yield marks at roundabouts, as well as sharrows), so perhaps the kids getting some book knowledge too isn't a bad thing.
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Old 07-12-18, 02:31 PM
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I'm not talking about the nuts and bolts like road markings. Yes, those are covered by the book. I'm talking about the stuff you learned from your grandfather. The driver's ed course I took included a lot of that kind of information- not just the nuts and bolts, but all the why's and how's. Things that, while maybe not illegal, are still things to be avoided. Or things that are not mandatory, but good practices.
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Originally Posted by bragi "However, it's never a good idea to overgeneralize."
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Old 07-12-18, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Doohickie View Post
I'm not talking about the nuts and bolts like road markings. Yes, those are covered by the book. I'm talking about the stuff you learned from your grandfather. The driver's ed course I took included a lot of that kind of information- not just the nuts and bolts, but all the why's and how's. Things that, while maybe not illegal, are still things to be avoided. Or things that are not mandatory, but good practices.
I don't see how grandpa's driving lore and driver's ed are going to impact the habits of cyclists and pedestrians when many of them don't have driver's licenses.
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Old 07-12-18, 07:09 PM
  #121  
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Originally Posted by HBCruiser1 View Post
You're making the assumption the truck driver did not check his mirrors or is not paying attention. Humans are no where near perfect. Perhaps he did check his mirrors and honestly did not see her. Now what? This is why drivers are often not cited. We don't hang people for an honest accident. In public, nothing is 100%. Let's be adults here.
A pitiful excuse and a poor consolation for someone crushed under your truck wheel. Had your legs been crushed would that excuse work for you? Nothing should take away your responsibly to operate a vehicle of that size safely.

I would hang the truck driver IF the cyclist had cleared the front of the truck and then he had re-passed her and THEN right hooked her. That is negligence. But I don't think she passed him. She hung next to him. When I'm coming up onto a trucker, I look into his mirror to see if he sees me. If not, I'm staying behind.

She's riding along without a clue of what is going on. She put herself into that bad position. Hopefully she'll learn not to do that again, but I'm doubtful. Too many cyclists assume they are seen. As an operator of a vehicle that is much smaller, the majority of the responsibility for your safety, Is you.

When you're 6 feet under, it doesn't matter who's fault it is.
She knew enough to get out of the way. Stop blaming the victim. There's nothing for her to learn. She's alive and well due solely to her observation and quick response to what could have been a catastrophic accident -- no thanks to the clueless tanker driver. In this scenario, its the driver that need to learn a lesson.
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Old 07-12-18, 10:28 PM
  #122  
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Originally Posted by Hypno Toad View Post
This is a story from Minneapolis in 2011, Audrey (Kimberly Yeong Sil) Hull crushed by side-dumper on U of MN campus - https://www.twincities.com/2011/04/2...-in-dinkytown/

My take on this story - I understand the turning radius of heavy trucks because I drove them for years. But it's total BS to expect every road user to understand the room a heavy truck needs, it is the commercial drivers responsibility to know the space around their vehicle is clear and safe while driving on public streets.
It wasn't that one but it shows it happens.

What i notice about your trucks is the rear axles are set so close to the end of the trailer. So they have a particularly long wheelbase, and therefore a large turning circle. Over here, ours tend to have very long rear overhangs, with the axles far closer to the front.
This helps trucks turn in tighter spaces (essential for our relatively smaller roads) although it does create major tail-swing. That's also a science some are unaware of, and so in the case of driving on the right, a truck turning right isn't the only danger - a cyclist riding kerbside can also have their door shut by a truck turning left!
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Old 07-13-18, 08:40 AM
  #123  
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Originally Posted by Kontact View Post
I don't see how grandpa's driving lore and driver's ed are going to impact the habits of cyclists and pedestrians when many of them don't have driver's licenses.
And although not driving has many things to recommend it, never having been trained to to do so (which is not entirely uncommon here in NYC) can mean a serious lack of perspective.

Of course walk a mile in the other person's shoes goes both ways: perhaps commercial driving school should require a day of roadway biking experience.
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Old 07-13-18, 09:27 AM
  #124  
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Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
I suppose I'm sitting here wondering WHY one shouldn't expect road users to understand road safety.

I can remember warnings about trucks from long before I started driving.

I'm trying to think back to the State Driver's manual. Perhaps I'll snag another (new) copy.

I think most of it concentrated on the rules of the road. Signs, lanes, turning, etc.

However, it also needs a section on sharing the road with other road users (bikes, cars, trucks, etc). And, if half the road users have towed a trailer sometime, there should even be instruction on small trailers.
As others have stated, a person on bike or foot may not have a drivers licence and may never have taken a driver's ed course.

When I had a CDL, it was an unwritten rule to expect other road users to fail to understand what it takes to maneuver a commercial truck (turning, braking, accelerating, blind-spots... ) Frankly, there's a good reason for a CDL, commercial trucks require a lot more skill/knowledge to drive safely than the basic motor vehicle. Kinda kills me to see how easy it is for anybody to get a UHaul or RV and just drive down the road.

There should be better education for all road users about unique needs of diverse vehicles on the road (bicycle, motorcycle, trucks, semis, ... ). But that's not the country we live in, so it's up to us to educate each other.
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Old 07-13-18, 09:32 AM
  #125  
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Originally Posted by UniChris View Post
And although not driving has many things to recommend it, never having been trained to to do so (which is not entirely uncommon here in NYC) can mean a serious lack of perspective.

Of course walk a mile in the other person's shoes goes both ways: perhaps commercial driving school should require a day of roadway biking experience.
And let's make bicyclists spend a day driving an 18 wheeler around in town making deliveries. While the CDL applicants are riding around on bikes trying to avoid them. That, I would pay good money to see. O the carnage. . . .
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