gpsblake

Agree. That video is just reckless cycling.

CliffordK

It varies...

For the most part, pedestrians don't significantly slow me down on the MUPS. But, it may depend a bit on the city, MUP, time of day, day of the week, and month of the year.

I posted a photo of the Portland riverfront earlier. Depending on what is happening, it can be a bit slow. I'd have gotten through that day if I didn't have a trailer, but since I was towing, I had to turn around and try a different route. But, other Portland area MUPS are pretty smooth sailing.

Likewise in Eugene, a few bad spots, often around parks, but generally pretty clear riding once one gets off the bridges, and a few hundred yards away from the parking lots.

It turns out that my fastest commute (up until this summer) was about 1/3 on a MUP at an 18 MPH overall average for about 15 miles total.

I don't race a lot on the MUPS, but have picked out a couple of Strava segments I like, clocking a couple of my fastest flatish segments. 25.1 MPH & 27.7 MPH... yes, I know, a bit slow, I'll work on them a bit more.

And, yes, I've had pedestrians blow my Strava runs before. Eagle gawkers? But, that is all part of the game. Slow down, pass safely, rest, and ride another day.

CliffordK

It may be that California needs to redesign some of their MUPS.

The widest MUP in Eugene is about 25 feet wide. Generally adequate room to pass trail users going in any direction, or on any side of the trail although I did have a pedestrian dart across the path from one side to the other without looking, directly in front of me while I was pounding at about 25 MPH. BURNT RUBBER!!!

Walkers tend to be on the paved paths, but there are several jogger only paths (no bikes allowed). This may well decrease bicycle/jogger interactions.

Anyway, if they have too many people on the paths in California, then they need to widen the paths and make more of them. Redundant paths. Perhaps also consider parallel pedestrian/cyclist paths.

The raised bridges are likely the most difficult to deal with... double deck configuration? Yet, if they look like a 5th Avenue sidewalk... then something needs improved.

KraneXL

How is it that the expectation of riding normally in the portion of the MUP designated and marked for bikes considered "reckless cycling"? With that understanding (yield priority to pedestrians) the MUP are no more than a sidewalk as the exact same legal prioritization applies.

In fact, you have just proven my original point: that MUPs fail. Despite the apportioned designation for cycling, they are no more than highfalutin sidewalks (that don't prohibit bikes), with a politically correct trendy title.

pass the peas

Why threads get enormously popular and then locked.

Hoopdriver

It's unfortunate that some people cannot transcend their selfishness.

genec

That's 'cause you are not really a motorist... you are a cyclist in a car. I bet you even look for cyclists and are fully aware of where they are, while you drive.

To a motorist, folks on bicycles have two states... they are either invisible ("I didn't see 'em"), or "in the way."

I used to play a little game with my fellow engineers when we would occasionally go to lunch as a group in one car... after passing a cyclist, I'd ask what color the cyclist was wearing... and get answers ranging from "what cyclist" to a proper color answer... the latter was an indication that the cyclist was seen, not "automatically ignored."

Try it some time with good friends... it will annoy anyone else.

livedarklions

"Nobody goes there anymore, it's too crowded."

the Minuteman Commuter Bikeway between Bedford and Cambridge, MA is, despite the name, a really good MUP. There are stretches where there are lots of pedestrians and you have to slow down, but there are also long segments where you can ride in the mid-20s without any problems. And if you go early in the morning, there won't be much in the way of any traffic. You really can't expect any more than that in a thickly settled urban area.

Daniel4

I'm not sure what the big deal is. Although, I have rarely walked on a MUP, I do know what it's like to have a bicycle zip by you as you're walking on a sidewalk.

So when I'm cycling on a MUP, I give pedestrians a wide berth as I slowly ride pass with my bell ringing. Sometimes, when I see a pedestrian headed directly at me without any indication of what direction he or she intends to move, I just stop.

Only on MUPs will utility vehicles pay careful attention and get put of the way of cyclists.

The only things I don't like are:

1) too many signs telling cyclists to dismount;
2) not that great as comuter routes because they meander all over the place adding kms or miles to your travel.

Jim from Boston

Why MUPS Fail

Quote:

Originally Posted by KraneXL

Below are some excerpts and comments (from another related A&S thread), as to why MUP don't work well for cyclists:...

Quote:

Originally Posted by noimagination

So, you want thousands of people to help you pay for an MUP, then you want them to stay off of it so that you can use it for your purposes and you don't have to deal with the others who helped pay for it.

Or, if they do use it, you want them to use it in a way that is most conducive to your enjoyment of the MUP, not theirs.

Gotcha. Let us know how that works out for you.

There certainly have been many MUP threads about the hazards, but IMO this one was the best about the utility of MUPS, as a transportation policy:

Miele Man

The biggest problem I see around here with MUP's is that far too many bicyclists don't realize that MUP stands for MULTI USE Path. At certain times of the day and on weekends some of the MUPs in my area are like a highway during rush hour with lots of stop and go traffic. You have pedestrians, dog walkers with dogs on long very thin retractable leashes with the leash run out to 25 feet or so which results in the leash being stretched across the path, many people wearing earbuds with volume so high they can't hear a bicycle bell, casual "squirrel" type bicyclists who can't hold a straight line to save their lives, and wannabe Grand Tour bicyclists who think that the MUP is their private training ground. MUP stands for MULTI USE and thus bicyclists need to expect others and be prepared to stop suddenly if needed. During the really busy times on the MUPs around here I avoid them and use the road if I want to get somewhere quickly and/or avoid the stress of trying to negotiate around the other users of the MULTI Use Path.

Cheers

KraneXL

And don't forget the pedestrians that have the same belief.Which would defeat the purpose. Your multi use path would then be a pedestrian only path. Just more sidewalk.

UniChris

I remember riding the Minuteman to a dinner party in Arlington and back to the Cambridge/Belmont border circa 2000 with friends. Was a lot of fun, only very unnerving how with the halogen/NiCd lights of the era, pedestrians (and there were a lot out that night) were all but invisible until we were right on top of them.

Today the LED lights are far brighter, I'm far slower, and apart from a few kids smoking on a bridge railing, I can't remember the last time I encountered a pedestrian on a suburban MUP after dark.

mr_bill

I'm sure there's a forum somewhere where you can whine about the traffic. Bridgeforums or Tunnelforums maybe?


I have yet to encounter a busy MUP where nobody was riding a bicycle. I've encountered an EMPTY MUP where I was the only person riding a bicycle and nobody was walking. Mile after mile after mile.


Anyhow, when the MUP is busy, there is a lot of traffic. Which means that there are lots of PEOPLE using the MUP. People on bikes. People on foot. Which can lead to traffic jams.

If you don't want to be the traffic you are stuck in, then find another route with less traffic (Miele Man's choice), or travel at a different time when there is less traffic, or SLOW DOWN to a safe speed and pass only when safe -- because TRAFFIC, or incessantly WHINE about the TRAFFIC. It's really that simple.


OR, you can honk honk HONK because the car in front of you just cut you off on the GWB. Or be that person who is getting honked at while you are cutting everyone off because every half a car length is so damn valuable to you. Or incessantly WHINE about the TRAFFIC.


Your choice.

-mr. bill

mr_bill

There are still plenty of people walking on the Minuteman after dark.

-mr. bill

hubcyclist

I have to preface this by saying I don't train on any bike paths, it isn't practical, but this kind of statement kind of irks me because it's a bit derisive to those who like to train to get faster/fitter. I often see such riders referred to as "racer boys" "lance wannabes" etc. around these forums. I also have to wonder if people are really riding that fast or if it's just fast relative to those on the bike path. Every time I do venture on the bike path, I can easily say that even at the moderate pace I try to stick to when i go on the paths, I am always the passer and never the passee, and I'm quite mediocre. I never close pass (and always slow down rather than go down the middle if someone is approaching from the opposite lane), so I don't know if my pace bothers anyone. But I know motorists think all cyclists belong on paths, and if slower MUP users think faster cyclists don't belong there either, it presents a conundrum. Where the heck should people train? At home on the trainer? I know this is a bit extreme, but I think it does highlight some the issues that more fitness/performance oriented cyclists might face.

The reality is that multi-use paths have to cater to the lowest common denominator, but I do think some folks, especially faster folks, are definitely made to feel less welcome.

mr_bill

Actually, "slower MUP users" think that "faster MUP users" should pass safely, and if that's not possible because of traffic, SLOW DOWN, and then pass when it's safe to do so.

Just like "slower road users" think that "faster road users" should pass safely, and if that's not possible because of traffic, SLOW DOWN, and then pass when it's safe to do so.

How is that a conundrum?

-mr. bill

UniChris

Because there's no where that someone who would be well above average speed on a MUP and well below average on a road can go to just ride and concentrate on athleticism without getting interrupted by other traffic, unless they find an empty MUP or empty road.

Worse, the other users in each place are always telling them that they've picked the wrong place to ride.

mr_bill

Because there's no where that someone who would be well below average speed on a MUP and well above average on a road can just go and enjoy without getting interrupted by other traffic, unless they find an empty MUP or empty road.

Worse, *SOME* other users in each place are always telling them that they've picked the wrong place to go.

"Get off my ROAD! Get off my MUP!"

-mr. bill

hubcyclist

I don't disagree, certainly when I'm on the path I pass as widely left as I can. When I go on the Minuteman, I go with the expectation of going more slowly than on the road and, as I said, I always slow down behind a slow user as opposed going on the center line if there is someone else coming toward me, I don't want to scare anyone with close passing and certainly don't want to make anyone crash.

UniChris summed it up very nicely, and appreciate that, the conundrum being that there is a segment of users who are told where they are is the wrong place to ride. I got flipped off in Lexington on Mass Ave because I was on the road, with the driver telling me to get on the bike trail (this was on a busy weekend day), but riding at the pace of my particular workout would have been impossible on the bike path (constant slowing is not really a productive workout). So that's what I was referring to as a conundrum where motorists don't want cyclists on the road and MUPs aren't a great place if someone really wants to get a workout. Obviously the roads are more than wide open and motorists aren't always yelling at cyclists to get off the roads, but the sentiment is out there.

KraneXL

Interesting that you should mention "traffic jam", because I've never once encountered it among bikes. It only gets jammed when pedestrians move over and encroach onto the bike designated section.

Of course all of this implies that there is a marked separation between the two. If its just a trail or path WITHOUT MARKINGS, then there no expectation of exclusivity.

TheLibrarian

Near me there are usually one or two spots by a bridge or lake that people walk on the rest is fairly isolated and you can drope the hammer.

downhillmaster

work4bike

I'll stick to the roads and leave the MUPs to all the miserable people

KraneXL