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-   -   Cyclists behaving badly (https://www.bikeforums.net/advocacy-safety/1151562-cyclists-behaving-badly.html)

OBoile 08-03-18 12:35 PM


Originally Posted by DrIsotope (Post 20486047)
But why should they have to ride separately? Simply so as not to inconvenience a few motorists for a few seconds a few times a week?

Because it's safer. Because it causes way less inconvenience to traffic. Because it's far easier to get through things like stop lights together.

Mostly, to not be a dick to other road users. If you think these cyclists are doing nothing wrong, you're part of the problem.

Daniel4 08-03-18 12:40 PM

It could be worse. It could be a motorcade, a trucking convoy or a motorcycle gang.

GailT 08-03-18 12:49 PM

Title of this thread should be changed to "Reporter behaving badly".

Colnago Mixte 08-03-18 12:51 PM

1 Attachment(s)
It took an entire day of yelling, taunting, lecturing, and prodding, but they finally got the "angry cyclist" shot they wanted. I notice how they linger on it at the end of the story, as if that's the one thing you are supposed to remember from the story.

Is that an industrial park they're riding past? On a Sunday? And yet these people are still a nuisance no matter when and where they ride? :(

Tape2012 08-03-18 01:02 PM


Originally Posted by GailT (Post 20486473)
Title of this thread should be changed to "Reporter behaving badly".

I don't think anyone came out of that video looking very good.

Ald1 08-03-18 02:35 PM

I stopped riding with some groups as, no matter how many shouts of car back, folks stayed 4, 5 abreast. embarrassing. Some riders seem to have a chip on their shoulders and really hostility toward cars and a I'll show them attitude. I also did a recent mass ride with 2,600 cyclist. Yes that volume takes over the rode but I actually saw riders take up the oppisite lane on a two lane road, not passing, just riding and with opposing traffic coming! Go figure. On this one I'm in the camp of the drivers and this group needs some work in politness and common curtesy.

SylvainG 08-03-18 05:49 PM


Originally Posted by OBoile (Post 20485769)
The cycling club should have split into smaller groups. My club as a policy that when there are > 12 riders, we split up. Makes life much easier for motorists.

Some people here need to remember that in a war against cars we lose. The vast majority of the voting population are car drivers, not cyclists. Politicians know this. If you want things to get better, being a jerk, selectively obeying laws and frustrating drivers is not the best strategy.

In Québec, a group ride cannot be bigger than 15 cyclists. It's the law.

SylvainG 08-03-18 05:54 PM


Originally Posted by Colnago Mixte (Post 20486478)
It took an entire day of yelling, taunting, lecturing, and prodding, but they finally got the "angry cyclist" shot they wanted. I notice how they linger on it at the end of the story, as if that's the one thing you are supposed to remember from the story.

Is that an industrial park they're riding past? On a Sunday? And yet these people are still a nuisance no matter when and where they ride? :(

That's why I'm glad where I live, they close some parkways Sundays mornings during Summer so cyclist can ride without having to worry about cars. There is even a " Would you like to ride faster? The Sir George-Étienne Cartier Parkway (8 kilometres) becomes the new Fast Lane, between 7 am and 9 am"

NOKIA Sunday Bikedays | National Capital Commission
*

Paul Barnard 08-03-18 06:06 PM


Originally Posted by SylvainG (Post 20487030)
In Québec, a group ride cannot be bigger than 15 cyclists. It's the law.

I wonder how they can enforce that law.* What happens if a group of 10 cyclists is slowly overtaking another group of 10 cyclists?* A some point they will look like one large group.**
*

SylvainG 08-03-18 06:15 PM


Originally Posted by Daniel4 (Post 20486451)
It could be worse. It could be a motorcade, a trucking convoy or a motorcycle gang.

Oh man, I got stock behind something like that took me over an hour before I could pass the last motorcade!

KraneXL 08-03-18 06:17 PM


Originally Posted by Tape2012 (Post 20486495)
I don't think anyone came out of that video looking very good.

That's because the reporter was biased and only showed one side of the story. When they can only get one side they're forced to make the rest up.

A good/investigative reporter however, could have found the cyclists start/end point and interviewed them under safer conditions and in a more appropriate environment other than traveling down the road at high speed in a peloton.

downhillmaster 08-03-18 07:12 PM


Originally Posted by OBoile (Post 20486435)
Because it's safer. Because it causes way less inconvenience to traffic. Because it's far easier to get through things like stop lights together.

Mostly, to not be a dick to other road users. If you think these cyclists are doing nothing wrong, you're part of the problem.

This

gregf83 08-03-18 07:51 PM


Originally Posted by OBoile (Post 20485769)
The cycling club should have split into smaller groups. My club as a policy that when there are > 12 riders, we split up. Makes life much easier for motorists.

Some people here need to remember that in a war against cars we lose. The vast majority of the voting population are car drivers, not cyclists. Politicians know this. If you want things to get better, being a jerk, selectively obeying laws and frustrating drivers is not the best strategy.


Originally Posted by Tape2012 (Post 20486027)
Who says they have to ride in one group? Seems to me that breaking up into smaller groups would be the prudent thing to do. Unless those guys like each other so much that they can't stand not being able to see each other.


Originally Posted by KraneXL (Post 20486409)
This is the only rational solution. That group is just way too big, and they should have split into 2-3 groups.

To the cyclist benefit is that the ride is on Sunday, so its not as though they're blocking rush hour traffic.


Originally Posted by OBoile (Post 20486435)
Because it's safer. Because it causes way less inconvenience to traffic. Because it's far easier to get through things like stop lights together.

Mostly, to not be a dick to other road users. If you think these cyclists are doing nothing wrong, you're part of the problem.


Originally Posted by downhillmaster (Post 20487155)

This


For all those who think the group should break up into smaller groups I'll make a few observations:
1. This looks like the Vets ride that has been riding on that route for at least 20 yrs every Sun at 10AM
2. It's a relatively short section of road with no shoulders and not a lot of traffic especially on weekends. It includes a residential section with 30kph speed limits and speed bumps every 100m or so.
3. A little over 1 1/2 yrs ago a cyclist was killed while riding in a smaller group of 6. The driver, who had been gambling all night at a local casino, crossed the center line and plowed into the group head on. He received an $1,800 fine. https://bc.ctvnews.ca/cyclist-fatall...wife-1.3150307
4. It's much safer for the cyclists to be riding in a larger group. There are sections of double yellow line which motorists will use to pass a single line of cyclists which is fine provided there are no on coming cars. If there are the cyclists are in danger.
5. After the death of Brad Dean mentioned above the city put up 'cyclists must ride single file' signs. They've since been removed as I assume someone pointed out the negative impact on cyclists safety.

Much ado about nothing.

genec 08-03-18 08:06 PM


Originally Posted by OBoile (Post 20486435)
Because it's safer. Because it causes way less inconvenience to traffic. Because it's far easier to get through things like stop lights together.

Mostly, to not be a dick to other road users. If you think these cyclists are doing nothing wrong, you're part of the problem.

Cyclists are traffic too bro... perhaps motorists should just slow down and enjoy their little 4 wheel couches... there'd be way less inconvenience to all the OTHER traffic.

See the whole "traffic" issue IS the problem... motorists think only they are "traffic."

jon c. 08-03-18 08:26 PM

There is no problem.

AlmostTrick 08-03-18 08:28 PM

Cars inconvenience motorists way more than bikes do. We have regular traffic updates on media to tell us all about it.

KraneXL 08-03-18 08:28 PM

Sorry gang, but those excuses may seem valid but they're all trumped by the laws -- you can't block the road -- and blowing through stops signs is just wrong and dangerous.

What they need are runners that sprint ahead of the group and hold traffic. In any event, unless its a closed course, the cyclist are the violators here.

canklecat 08-03-18 08:41 PM

Good ol' n00bs and rubes on the Anti-cyclist & Sputum forum.

Never change A&S, never change.

Some folks should sell their bikes or just stay on the sidewalk.

AlmostTrick 08-03-18 08:44 PM


Originally Posted by KraneXL (Post 20487262)
Sorry gang, but those excuses may seem valid but they're all trumped by the laws -- you can't block the road --

If the lane is too narrow to share, a cyclist (or cyclists) can. Although since it's legal, I wouldn't call it "blocking the road". It's using the road safely in accordance with the laws.

Agreed on the stop sign running is not legal.

gregf83 08-03-18 08:45 PM


Originally Posted by KraneXL (Post 20487262)
Sorry gang, but those excuses may seem valid but they're all trumped by the laws -- you can't block the road -- and blowing through stops signs is just wrong and dangerous.

And allowed in our city...

OBoile 08-03-18 08:46 PM


Originally Posted by genec (Post 20487238)
Cyclists are traffic too bro... perhaps motorists should just slow down and enjoy their little 4 wheel couches... there'd be way less inconvenience to all the OTHER traffic.

See the whole "traffic" issue IS the problem... motorists think only they are "traffic."

If/when a motorist decides to block a road going < 1/2 the speed limit for kicks every Sunday you would have a reasonable point. Our recreation gets in people's way from time to time. The least we can do is recognize that fact and do what we can to safely minimize it.

AlmostTrick 08-03-18 08:48 PM


Originally Posted by canklecat (Post 20487273)
Good ol' n00bs and rubes on the Anti-cyclist & Sputum forum.

Never change A&S, never change.

Some folks should sell their bikes or just stay on the sidewalk.

:lol: :thumb: The stuff here is fun sometimes!

OBoile 08-03-18 08:49 PM


Originally Posted by gregf83 (Post 20487209)
For all those who think the group should break up into smaller groups I'll make a few observations:
1. This looks like the Vets ride that has been riding on that route for at least 20 yrs every Sun at 10AM

Irrelevant.

Originally Posted by gregf83 (Post 20487209)
2. It's a relatively short section of road with no shoulders and not a lot of traffic especially on weekends. It includes a residential section with 30kph speed limits and speed bumps every 100m or so.

No doubt that group of what, 30 cyclists all ride in the shoulders the rest of the way.

Originally Posted by gregf83 (Post 20487209)
3. A little over 1 1/2 yrs ago a cyclist was killed while riding in a smaller group of 6. The driver, who had been gambling all night at a local casino, crossed the center line and plowed into the group head on. He received an $1,800 fine. https://bc.ctvnews.ca/cyclist-fatall...wife-1.3150307

Not seeing how a bigger group would help here.

Originally Posted by gregf83 (Post 20487209)
4. It's much safer for the cyclists to be riding in a larger group. There are sections of double yellow line which motorists will use to pass a single line of cyclists which is fine provided there are no on coming cars. If there are the cyclists are in danger.

5. After the death of Brad Dean mentioned above the city put up 'cyclists must ride single file' signs. They've since been removed as I assume someone pointed out the negative impact on cyclists safety.

Who said anything about riding single file?

Originally Posted by gregf83 (Post 20487209)
Much ado about nothing.

Indeed.

canklecat 08-03-18 09:12 PM


Originally Posted by OBoile (Post 20487287)
If/when a motorist decides to block a road going < 1/2 the speed limit for kicks every Sunday you would have a reasonable point.

Interesting strawman digression for a guy who spends so much time itemizing quotes to insist they're irrelevant because they don't fit your biases.


Our recreation gets in people's way from time to time. The least we can do is recognize that fact and do what we can to safely minimize it.
It isn't just recreation. For many of us it's transportation as well.

And what we sensible, experienced and informed cyclists practice is what we're doing to ensure our safety. These are minimal inconveniences to drivers, seldom amounting to more than a few seconds of slowing down until there's an opportunity to proceed safely.

Sell your bike or park it until you can find that clue. It's out there somewhere. Meanwhile you're just cluttering up the road with fuzzbrained babble.

SylvainG 08-03-18 09:15 PM


Originally Posted by Paul Barnard (Post 20487057)
I wonder how they can enforce that law.* What happens if a group of 10 cyclists is slowly overtaking another group of 10 cyclists?* A some point they will look like one large group.**
*

Good question. I don't know.

gregf83 08-03-18 09:20 PM


Originally Posted by OBoile (Post 20487292)
Irrelevant.

It's relevant that it's a quiet Sunday with a group of cyclists occupying the lane of a stretch of road for 20 min or so, going close to the speed limit (sometimes over). Most people tend to chill a little on Sunday and aren't concerned if they have to slow down for a few minutes.

No doubt that group of what, 30 cyclists all ride in the shoulders the rest of the way.
There are no shoulders on that road.

Not seeing how a bigger group would help here.
Bigger groups are easier to see.

Who said anything about riding single file?
The person who made the video appeared to want to 'share' the road. I assume they were thinking more along the lines of sharing the lane. In any case, breaking the large group up into several smaller groups isn't going to make it easier for cars to pass safely.

Dave Cutter 08-03-18 09:22 PM

I watched that and thought..... thank God there wasn't any deadly house or apartment fires, school shootings, gang rapes, missing children, etc.. Must have been a slow news day. So... a great time to pick on middle aged prosperous men recreating a little of their childhood.

Tape2012 08-03-18 09:54 PM


Originally Posted by Paul Barnard (Post 20486313)
Irresepective of the cyclists response, the reporter was sending a message that it's OK to take cyclists to task in the middle of the road when motorists have an issue with the way the cyclists are operating. It is NOT OK.

No, not a good thing to do. But I would argue that the truly unsafe one was the cyclist who engaged the reporter.

The reporter wasn't driving the vehicle, so his actions by themselves were not unsafe. The cyclist, however was operating his bike in a large group of other cyclists. He was under no obligation to respond, but chose to take his attention away from riding safely in order to engage. And what was he doing with a phone in his hand? As a driver in CA, that alone will get you a ticket. Had he drifted off course and wiped out the riders behind him, it would have been on him, not the reporter. The responsible thing to do would have been to ignore the reporter and concentrate on riding safely.

gregf83 08-03-18 10:00 PM


Originally Posted by Tape2012 (Post 20487351)
No, not a good thing to do. But I would argue that the truly unsafe one was the cyclist who engaged the reporter.

The reporter wasn't driving the vehicle, so his actions by themselves were not unsafe. The cyclist, however was operating his bike in a large group of other cyclists. He was under no obligation to respond, but chose to take his attention away from riding safely in order to engage. And what was he doing with a phone in his hand? As a driver in CA, that alone will get you a ticket. Had he drifted off course and wiped out the riders behind him, it would have been on him, not the reporter. The responsible thing to do would have been to ignore the reporter and concentrate on riding safely.

JHC you realize there are people capable of riding and talking at the same time?

OBoile 08-04-18 07:39 AM


Originally Posted by canklecat (Post 20487321)
Interesting strawman digression for a guy who spends so much time itemizing quotes to insist they're irrelevant because they don't fit your biases.

I guess you didn't get my point. Also, an accusation of bias coming from one of the most extreme posters on the A&S forum is pretty rich. My opinion on the matter is far more pro-cyclist than that of the general population.

Originally Posted by canklecat (Post 20487321)
It isn't just recreation. For many of us it's transportation as well.

True, but that isn't the case here is it.
​​​​​​​

Originally Posted by canklecat (Post 20487321)
And what we sensible, experienced and informed cyclists practice is what we're doing to ensure our safety. These are minimal inconveniences to drivers, seldom amounting to more than a few seconds of slowing down until there's an opportunity to proceed safely.

I'm don't agree with your use of the words "sensible", "minimal", or "seldom".
​​​​​​​

Originally Posted by canklecat (Post 20487321)
Sell your bike or park it until you can find that clue. It's out there somewhere. Meanwhile you're just cluttering up the road with fuzzbrained babble.

This makes absolutely no sense. Furthermore, courteous cyclists are far better for supporting and advancing our rights than rude extremists. If anyone should be getting off the road, it's people like you.


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