Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Advocacy & Safety
Reload this Page >

“You leave your house...But you never know if you’ll be back.”

Advocacy & Safety Cyclists should expect and demand safe accommodation on every public road, just as do all other users. Discuss your bicycle advocacy and safety concerns here.

“You leave your house...But you never know if you’ll be back.”

Reply

Old 08-19-18, 12:21 PM
  #1  
JoeyBike
20+mph Commuter
Thread Starter
 
JoeyBike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: New Orleans, LA USA
Posts: 5,982

Bikes: Surly LHT, and 3 others

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 540 Post(s)
“You leave your house...But you never know if you’ll be back.”

“You leave your house,” Jerónimo said. “But you never know if you’ll be back.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/17/n...livereros.html

Same thing goes through my head before every ride in traffic on public roadways. I've been scolded here for comparing cycling in a city grid to "going to war", but how many activities are there where you could easily be killed with a one second lapse of attention, or no lapse at all? The linked article is mostly about undocumented immigrant food delivery people in NYC and what they go through on a daily basis. Or you can just skip all the way down to the last line: “You leave your house,” Jerónimo said. “But you never know if you’ll be back.”
JoeyBike is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-18, 12:39 PM
  #2  
Daniel4
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,769
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 554 Post(s)
It's too bad motorists don't think this way because they are over 5x more likely not to return home.

"while riding his bike along 23rd Street in South Slope, he was hit by a southbound BMW sedan at Fifth Avenue. Even though the driver had the green light, surveillance video shows his car entering the intersection at high speed."

So it appears the victim may have had a red light. Can you remind us all how to "correctly" run red lights again?

Last edited by Daniel4; 08-19-18 at 01:00 PM.
Daniel4 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-18, 01:39 PM
  #3  
JoeyBike
20+mph Commuter
Thread Starter
 
JoeyBike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: New Orleans, LA USA
Posts: 5,982

Bikes: Surly LHT, and 3 others

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 540 Post(s)
Originally Posted by Daniel4 View Post
It's too bad motorists don't think this way because they are over 5x more likely not to return home.

"while riding his bike along 23rd Street in South Slope, he was hit by a southbound BMW sedan at Fifth Avenue. Even though the driver had the green light, surveillance video shows his car entering the intersection at high speed."

So it appears the victim may have had a red light. Can you remind us all how to "correctly" run red lights again?
Easy as 1-2-3!

1. Look BOTH ways.
2. If you CAN'T SEE, you CAN'T GO!
3. If you are NOT SURE, then you CAN'T GO!

And there you have it!
JoeyBike is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-18, 01:45 PM
  #4  
CliffordK
Senior Member
 
CliffordK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Posts: 19,280
Mentioned: 116 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6548 Post(s)
There are many uncertainties in life.

When you go to sleep at night, do you truly know that you'll wake up the next morning... Even if you have woken up every morning of your life?

Perhaps the walk down the steps will be your last... ICE?
CliffordK is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-18, 01:59 PM
  #5  
Leisesturm
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,535
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 951 Post(s)
Originally Posted by JoeyBike View Post
Easy as 1-2-3!

1. Look BOTH ways.
It would appear that you want to have it both ways. Look, either cycling is an incredibly dangerous activity, to be undertaken extremely prudently if at all, or it isn't. I for one would NOT want to add a single iota of additional risk in an activity already so fraught as to make me question my survival on a minute by minute basis. Full disclosure: I run red lights daily, but I am not simultaneously linking articles by people claiming that cycling is up there with BASE jumping based on the risk to life and limb statistics. What exactly is your reason for doing so? Also, is it too much to ask why, in recent threads, you seem to need to drag people of color into your rants? IF I bother to read that article, will it be expressly determined that all the food delivery personnel in NYC are undocumented, or is that just your biased extrapolation? Is this yet another of your threads that needs to be locked pronto? I'm thinking, yes!
Leisesturm is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-18, 02:11 PM
  #6  
genec
genec
 
genec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Posts: 26,163

Bikes: custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2

Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4957 Post(s)
Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
There are many uncertainties in life.

When you go to sleep at night, do you truly know that you'll wake up the next morning... Even if you have woken up every morning of your life?

Perhaps the walk down the steps will be your last... ICE?
And just how many of those mentioned uncertainties are due to someone else not paying attention?
genec is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-18, 02:16 PM
  #7  
JoeyBike
20+mph Commuter
Thread Starter
 
JoeyBike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: New Orleans, LA USA
Posts: 5,982

Bikes: Surly LHT, and 3 others

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 540 Post(s)
Originally Posted by genec View Post
And just how many of those mentioned uncertainties are due to someone else not paying attention?
Exactly
JoeyBike is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-18, 02:19 PM
  #8  
GrainBrain
Senior Member
 
GrainBrain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Central Io-way
Posts: 740

Bikes: LeMond Zurich, Giant Talon 29er

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 363 Post(s)
Originally Posted by JoeyBike View Post
Easy as 1-2-3!

1. Look BOTH ways.
2. If you CAN'T SEE, you CAN'T GO!
3. If you are NOT SURE, then you CAN'T GO!

And there you have it!
4. Sprint!!
GrainBrain is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-18, 02:23 PM
  #9  
CliffordK
Senior Member
 
CliffordK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Posts: 19,280
Mentioned: 116 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6548 Post(s)
Originally Posted by genec View Post
And just how many of those mentioned uncertainties are due to someone else not paying attention?
People always want to blame someone else. And, sometimes the blame is justified.

So, you could pick up a fatal disease at the grocery store, or your favorite restaurant. Somebody gave that disease to you.

A fall could simply be tripping over one's feet, or poor maintenance, or something left in a bad place, possibly by someone else, or not getting ice cleaned up properly.

Did someone notice a potentially fatal fault somewhere, and do nothing about it?

I've reported dangerous road faults. Some get fixed. Some get ignored.
CliffordK is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-18, 02:29 PM
  #10  
JoeyBike
20+mph Commuter
Thread Starter
 
JoeyBike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: New Orleans, LA USA
Posts: 5,982

Bikes: Surly LHT, and 3 others

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 540 Post(s)
Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
It would appear that you want to have it both ways. Look, either cycling is an incredibly dangerous activity, to be undertaken extremely prudently if at all, or it isn't. I for one would NOT want to add a single iota of additional risk in an activity already so fraught as to make me question my survival on a minute by minute basis.
As I have pointed out here a million times, running red lights, properly, in my situation, ADDS SAFETY. Not going over it again.

Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
Full disclosure: I run red lights daily, but I am not simultaneously linking articles by people claiming that cycling is up there with BASE jumping based on the risk to life and limb statistics. What exactly is your reason for doing so?
Isn't this Advocacy and SAFETY? Isn't this the WORLD Wide Web? Anything safety related on Earth is fair game the way I see it.

Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
Also, is it too much to ask why, in recent threads, you seem to need to drag people of color into your rants?
Yes, it IS too much to ask. I live in a city with all kinds of people. Grew up here. My mom was a pro ballet dancer so gay people were all around me, my dad was an athlete then worked for the phone company (Southern Bell, then AT&T) so my world was simultaneously filled with people of color. Even GAY people of COLOR. And I think it is safe to say that New Orleans is the most liberal city for 1000 miles in any direction. I am white, I am the MINORITY here, and I live here on purpose. It ain't perfect but I have looked around the USofA and this is the best place I can afford to be. So your insinuations likely say something about YOU. And I never want to read that $#!T again on any of my threads. Capiche?

Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
Is this yet another of your threads that needs to be locked pronto? I'm thinking, yes!
I never had much of a problem with threads getting locked. Unless the visitors got off the track.
*
*
*

Last edited by JoeyBike; 08-19-18 at 02:35 PM.
JoeyBike is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-18, 02:45 PM
  #11  
JoeyBike
20+mph Commuter
Thread Starter
 
JoeyBike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: New Orleans, LA USA
Posts: 5,982

Bikes: Surly LHT, and 3 others

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 540 Post(s)
Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
People always want to blame someone else. And, sometimes the blame is justified.
Say WHAT? You can look up likely 100 threads where I have clearly stated that cycling to work is my choice. I give cycling full consideration before I throw a leg over my toptube EVERY time. From the moment I push the first pedal stroke EVERYTHING is my fault. If a drunk hits me, my fault. If a crazy person runs over me ON PURPOSE, my fault. I know those people exist and I pushed that pedal down anyway. Yes, the law may hold them accountable after my death, but my being DEAD is MY FAULT. I could have taken the bus.

Time and time again I see cyclists RIGHT HERE wringing their hands because some other cyclist got steam-rolled while taking an unnecessary pleasure ride on a busy highway. Or got doored to death. Or any number of things that could have easily been avoided. So you are right that SOME people want to blame others. Myself, and others here, have been vocal about taking full responsibility for riding our "toys" among motor vehicles in the most dangerous places. I still cycle to work and back, but I take it really serious and pay attention to everything. Yet, at times, my life is in the hands of others. I just try to MINIMIZE those times by any means.
JoeyBike is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-18, 04:50 AM
  #12  
downhillmaster
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 237
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 141 Post(s)
Every time you leave your house you don’t know if you will make it back.
Whether you leave your house walking, driving, riding a bike or skateboarding.
What’s your point?
What was the point of that extremely biased article? Other than trying to drum up sympathy for illegals.
People regularly riding bicycles on one of the most densely populated parcels of land on the planet are at risk and will sometimes unfortunately die.
It’s awful but who didn’t already know that?
downhillmaster is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-18, 05:35 AM
  #13  
Colnago Mixte
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Center of Central CA
Posts: 1,667
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 851 Post(s)
Article summarized in one paragraph:

"Even though he was only 14, and lived in the US illegally, Edwin loved his family very much. But his friends, family, and undocumented co-wrokers could not help but notice that he already had that 'thousand pizza stare' (as seen in the unretouched photo below) that undocumented delivery people often get because of the unbearable strain of being a 14 year-old pizza delivery boy in NYC who in the country illegally, who was only seeking a better life and loved his family. The injustice of it all makes this New York Times writer question whether we actually live in a free country ... or not. Anyway, one day the kid was on his bike got hit by a car and died. THE END."
Attached Images
File Type: png
49.png (685.6 KB, 400 views)
Colnago Mixte is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-18, 06:36 AM
  #14  
downhillmaster
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 237
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 141 Post(s)
The article also references that his intention was to make enough money to go back home and build a house.
Based upon that he did not come here to embrace America and be a part of our culture.
He simply came here illegally to earn money while sponging off of our system.
The article also failed to mention how far along the path to legal citizenship he was.
That is not a surprise as he most likely never even applied. No mention of that though in a biased article.
downhillmaster is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-18, 07:04 AM
  #15  
Daniel4
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,769
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 554 Post(s)
Originally Posted by JoeyBike View Post
Easy as 1-2-3!

1. Look BOTH ways.
2. If you CAN'T SEE, you CAN'T GO!
3. If you are NOT SURE, then you CAN'T GO!

And there you have it!
That's three times more complicated than what the law requires.

1. If you have a red light, stop.
Daniel4 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-18, 08:53 AM
  #16  
AlmostTrick
Yabba-Dabba-Doo!
 
AlmostTrick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Bedrock, IL
Posts: 6,100

Bikes: 1968 Schwinn Orange Krate, Raleigh Roper road bike, Wabi Special fixed gear

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 783 Post(s)
What about the millions who leave the house by bike and do return safely every day?

It makes me curious when a competent and experienced cyclist decides it's just too dangerous to continue. And odd and a little sad if they go on a "Cycling is Too Risky" crusade. I always wonder why, after so many decades of riding.

I agree 100% with Joey regarding accepting 100% of the responsibility for my safety. I assess the risks and mitigate them as best I can. I just don't see cycling, even in traffic, as risky as Joey (now) believes it to be.
AlmostTrick is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-18, 09:28 AM
  #17  
tagaproject6
Goodbye Leeroy Jenkins
 
tagaproject6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 7,967

Bikes: Wilier Izoard XP (Campagnolo Record);Cinelli Xperience (SRAM Force);Specialized Allez (SRAM Rival);Bianchi Via Nirone 7 (Campagnolo Centaur); Colnago AC-R Disc;Colnago V1r Limited Edition; Ridley X-Night Disc; De Rosa King 3 Limited (SRAM Force 22)

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 350 Post(s)
Uh-oh, watch out for that political turn...
tagaproject6 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-18, 11:01 AM
  #18  
genec
genec
 
genec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Posts: 26,163

Bikes: custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2

Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4957 Post(s)
Originally Posted by Daniel4 View Post
That's three times more complicated than what the law requires.

1. If you have a red light, stop.
Oddly, trying to get motorists to consistently follow that law is also difficult... Especially when a right turn is involved.
genec is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-18, 11:01 AM
  #19  
I-Like-To-Bike
Been Around Awhile
 
I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 26,802

Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Originally Posted by tagaproject6 View Post
Uh-oh, watch out for that political turn...
Right, this topic/track is all about personal drama, and is twisted enough; no need for posters to derail it to the P&R track.
I-Like-To-Bike is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-18, 12:00 PM
  #20  
JoeyBike
20+mph Commuter
Thread Starter
 
JoeyBike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: New Orleans, LA USA
Posts: 5,982

Bikes: Surly LHT, and 3 others

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 540 Post(s)
Originally Posted by Daniel4 View Post
That's three times more complicated than what the law requires.

1. If you have a red light, stop.
And if you have a GREEN light???

1. Look BOTH ways.
2. If you CAN'T SEE, you CAN'T GO!
3. If you are NOT SURE, then you CAN'T GO!

A green light does not magically insure your safety. You have to do the SAME THINGS to cross safely.
JoeyBike is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-18, 12:04 PM
  #21  
tagaproject6
Goodbye Leeroy Jenkins
 
tagaproject6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 7,967

Bikes: Wilier Izoard XP (Campagnolo Record);Cinelli Xperience (SRAM Force);Specialized Allez (SRAM Rival);Bianchi Via Nirone 7 (Campagnolo Centaur); Colnago AC-R Disc;Colnago V1r Limited Edition; Ridley X-Night Disc; De Rosa King 3 Limited (SRAM Force 22)

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 350 Post(s)
Originally Posted by JoeyBike View Post
And if you have a GREEN light???

1. Look BOTH ways.
2. If you CAN'T SEE, you CAN'T GO!
3. If you are NOT SURE, then you CAN'T GO!

A green light does not magically insure your safety. You have to do the SAME THINGS to cross safely.
This is why I gun it on YELLOW.
tagaproject6 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-18, 12:23 PM
  #22  
downhillmaster
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 237
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 141 Post(s)
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
Right, this topic/track is all about personal drama, and is twisted enough; no need for posters to derail it to the P&R track.
The article linked in the OP is political. No derailment here
downhillmaster is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-18, 12:42 PM
  #23  
TheLibrarian
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Hudson Valley, New York
Posts: 474

Bikes: 2014 Giant Roam

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 82 Post(s)
It's dangerous enough walking in the city. I can't believe they rent citibikes to any old schlub and tourists. I doubt there's much legal responsibility to the bike share companies but maybe there should be.
TheLibrarian is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-18, 12:48 PM
  #24  
I-Like-To-Bike
Been Around Awhile
 
I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 26,802

Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
The article's P&R content is not related to the OP's hyped up sense of cycling "going to war" drama.
I-Like-To-Bike is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-18, 01:38 PM
  #25  
MMACH 5
Cycle Dallas
 
MMACH 5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Land of Gar, TX
Posts: 3,738

Bikes: Dulcinea--2017 Kona Rove & a few others

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 158 Post(s)
meh. If I thought this way about everything, I'd exist in a constant state of emotional exhaustion. As a daily commuter in a crowded city, I see a lot of the same drivers day-in and day-out. I've met some of them when stopping at a few of the stores along my route. They are not out to get me. They are going to work, just like me. Sure, I ride with my head on a swivel, but it's not a war--it's just getting from one place to another.
MMACH 5 is offline  
Reply With Quote

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service