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You’re no more a cyclist than you are a pedestrian or a driver ...

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You’re no more a cyclist than you are a pedestrian or a driver ...

Old 08-30-18, 04:03 PM
  #1  
JoeyBike
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You’re no more a cyclist than you are a pedestrian or a driver ...

https://www.vox.com/science-and-heal...infrastructure

"When you talk to somebody in the Netherlands about what makes biking so special, most of them will say, “What are you even talking about? It’s no different than when I get on the train or go for a walk.” You’re no more a cyclist than you are a pedestrian or a driver or a public transit user."

Exactly! I don't consider myself a "cyclist" any more than my wife considers herself a "motorist". Many in the Netherlands feel the same way. And they build safety around that notion. Everybody is just a "road user". Even so, there is disagreement among urban planners how they should accomplish this.
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Old 08-30-18, 04:17 PM
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That works for them, because they have infrastructure. I live in SoCal. As of 2015, the city of Los Angeles had 562 miles of bike routes-- more than double the number they had in 2005.

In the City of Los Angeles, there are 21,825 miles of maintained public roads. Factor in the fact that roughly a quarter of LA's total is "bike routes," that is: sharrows, not delineated or separated, and less than 2% of LA's roads have bike lanes.

This place was built for cars.
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Old 08-30-18, 04:30 PM
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Wait, first I'm not a "Serious Cyclist" (don't have the correct bike, or wear the approved clothes) now I'm not even a plain ol' regular one? It's getting tough here on BF!
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Old 08-30-18, 04:56 PM
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Q: What do you call a motorist who gets out of his car?

A: A pedestrian.
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Old 08-30-18, 10:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Daniel4 View Post
Q: What do you call a motorist who gets out of his car?

A: A pedestrian.
Q: What do you call a cyclist when they get off their bike (and walk around the grocery in full race kit)?

A: Oh, so many adjectives come to mind.

Q: Are you a cyclist after you lock up your bike and walk away from it?

A: NO! Now cover up that junk nobody wants to see anyway.

Q: Are you a cyclist WHILE you are riding a bicycle?

A: Yes, whether you like it or not!
*
*
*
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Old 08-31-18, 03:25 AM
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Originally Posted by DrIsotope View Post
That works for them, because they have infrastructure.
Bikes taking back the road was first, infrastructure followed. The peace between motorists and cycllists, as in that they don't see eachother as competing for the road use and space in general, has not been there immediately. That has been a process over many years, and it's still very easy to switch mindset with switching from bike to car. What also helped is that if they are enough cyclists, 'cycling' infrastructure is benificial to the flow of car traffic.
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Old 08-31-18, 06:19 AM
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Originally Posted by JoeyBike View Post
Q: What do you call a cyclist when they get off their bike (and walk around the grocery in full race kit)?

A: Oh, so many adjectives come to mind.

Q: Are you a cyclist after you lock up your bike and walk away from it?

A: NO! Now cover up that junk nobody wants to see anyway.

Q: Are you a cyclist WHILE you are riding a bicycle?

A: Yes, whether you like it or not!
*
*
*
All are pedestrians except the last one.
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Old 08-31-18, 07:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Stadjer View Post
Bikes taking back the road was first, infrastructure followed. The peace between motorists and cycllists, as in that they don't see eachother as competing for the road use and space in general, has not been there immediately. That has been a process over many years, and it's still very easy to switch mindset with switching from bike to car. What also helped is that if they are enough cyclists, 'cycling' infrastructure is benificial to the flow of car traffic.
I guess I should have said, they can have the infrastructure. I live in Southern California, where the car is unquestionably king. Everything here was built to accommodate the car. Up until the 1930s, the Pacific Electric "Red Car" electric trolleys were connecting all parts of Southern California. By 1960 they were completely gone. It's just freeways everywhere now. Orange County is widening a 16-mile stretch of the 405 freeway at a cost of $1.9 billion. Meanwhile, the Santa Ana River Trail remains incomplete after some 30 years. Phase 4-- costing less than $5 million-- was supposed to be completed years ago, hasn't started yet, and the timetable basically says "probably sometime in 2019."

The rate at which roads are altered to accommodate bikes again happens so slowly and sporadically, my kids kids will be the ones riding on them. It doesn't help that this area was not urbanized-- it's endless sprawl, city after city butted up against one another for 80 miles. It's a lot easier when you're looking at 20 square miles. The "city" I live in is closer to 80 square miles, and the metro area is thousands of square miles.

And beyond all those numbers, most people don't care about bicycles.
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Old 08-31-18, 07:16 AM
  #9  
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Originally Posted by JoeyBike View Post
Q: What do you call a cyclist when they get off their bike (and walk around the grocery in full race kit)?

A: Oh, so many adjectives come to mind.

Q: Are you a cyclist after you lock up your bike and walk away from it?

A: NO! Now cover up that junk nobody wants to see anyway.
...
Wait. Now, I'm supposed to bring a change of clothes with me to go grocery shopping?
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Old 08-31-18, 07:21 AM
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I'm a cyclist.

I enjoy cycling for its own sake. I enjoy tinkering with bikes. I talk with my friends about cycling and bikes. I understand the inner workings of virtually every kind of bike component. I go on rides with no purpose other than riding. Yes, I'm a cyclist when i'm not on a bike.

My spouse is a runner. I'm not a "runner" when I'm running to catch a bus. Nobody is confused about this terminology.

Using terminology in ways that people understand is quite normal and reasonable. Changing that terminology won't make cycling, er, "being a person while riding a bike," safer.
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Old 08-31-18, 07:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Gresp15C View Post
Using terminology in ways that people understand is quite normal and reasonable. Changing that terminology won't make cycling, er, "being a person while riding a bike," safer.
Agreed, but it might still be fun trying... or just griping about it! I don't underestimate the potential of this thread to deliver.
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Old 08-31-18, 09:00 AM
  #12  
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Originally Posted by MMACH 5 View Post
Wait. Now, I'm supposed to bring a change of clothes with me to go grocery shopping?
Do you really dress up in your bicycling outfit/"kit", to include tight spandex pants, to go grocery shopping?
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Old 08-31-18, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by DrIsotope View Post
I guess I should have said, they can have the infrastructure. I live in Southern California, where the car is unquestionably king. Everything here was built to accommodate the car. Up until the 1930s, the Pacific Electric "Red Car" electric trolleys were connecting all parts of Southern California. By 1960 they were completely gone. It's just freeways everywhere now. Orange County is widening a 16-mile stretch of the 405 freeway at a cost of $1.9 billion. Meanwhile, the Santa Ana River Trail remains incomplete after some 30 years. Phase 4-- costing less than $5 million-- was supposed to be completed years ago, hasn't started yet, and the timetable basically says "probably sometime in 2019."

The rate at which roads are altered to accommodate bikes again happens so slowly and sporadically, my kids kids will be the ones riding on them. It doesn't help that this area was not urbanized-- it's endless sprawl, city after city butted up against one another for 80 miles. It's a lot easier when you're looking at 20 square miles. The "city" I live in is closer to 80 square miles, and the metro area is thousands of square miles.

And beyond all those numbers, most people don't care about bicycles.
I understand. The infrastructure is there now, the point that I didn't make very clearly is that this article just like many others is very government centric. Like it's something offered by the government to it citizens who decided to use it by cycling, and that's not the case at all. There has been decisive action by (local) government, in my hometown in the 70's for example, there have been policies that turned out to be very influential on cycling but weren't made because of cycling, but a lot of it has been about goverment reacting to what was happening on the street, it often still is allthough in a more structured way. It started out more as a battle between citizens and government than a battle between politicians, and not always mainly about cycling either. Now that cycling traffic it's mostly a government matter, cycle lanes are often more beneficial to motorists than to cyclists (fietsers). I don't believe the cycling lessons for kids are a bad idea, but that's not how they learn how to ride bike.
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Old 08-31-18, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
Do you really dress up in your bicycling outfit/"kit", to include tight spandex pants, to go grocery shopping?
What if you're in the middle of a ride and you stop at a grocery store to pick up some Gatorade or snacks or something?
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Old 08-31-18, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
Do you really dress up in your bicycling outfit/"kit", to include tight spandex pants, to go grocery shopping?
I wear MTB cycling shorts and usually a cycling jersey of some sort on most trips to the store. And yea, I'm that dork walking around the store in my helmet with my SPDs clicking on the floor.

And when I have several stops to make at different stores, (grocery store, pet supply, etc) with my trailer behind me in 106°F heat, I'm certainly not going to make the 3 mile trip in jeans and a t-shirt.
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Old 08-31-18, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by MMACH 5 View Post
I wear MTB cycling shorts and usually a cycling jersey of some sort on most trips to the store. And yea, I'm that dork walking around the store in my helmet with my SPDs clicking on the floor.
Thanks, I wondered who that was!
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Old 08-31-18, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Milton Keynes View Post
What if you're in the middle of a ride and you stop at a grocery store to pick up some Gatorade or snacks or something?
I wouldn't describe that as a "go grocery shopping" trip.
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Old 08-31-18, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by MMACH 5 View Post
Wait. Now, I'm supposed to bring a change of clothes with me to go grocery shopping?
Why not just ride in regular clothes? I haven't felt the slightest need to wear kit when cycling for years, especially when I'm running errands. Most of my bikes do have eggbeaters, so I can where shoes that are about the same as walking shoes. I don't have to walk around like a court jester with my toes up in the air.
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Old 08-31-18, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by skye View Post
Why not just ride in regular clothes? I haven't felt the slightest need to wear kit when cycling for years, especially when I'm running errands. Most of my bikes do have eggbeaters, so I can where shoes that are about the same as walking shoes. I don't have to walk around like a court jester with my toes up in the air.
ONE of the store I frequent is 18 km away. I'm not riding in jeans for 90 minutes, sometimes in sweltering heat. So yeah, I'll do my spandex for the trip.

OTOH, the other stores are a mere km or two away, I'll ride in whatever I'm currently wearing.
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Old 08-31-18, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by MMACH 5 View Post
I wear MTB cycling shorts and usually a cycling jersey of some sort on most trips to the store. And yea, I'm that dork walking around the store in my helmet with my SPDs clicking on the floor..
My SPDs don't click.
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Old 08-31-18, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by mcours2006 View Post
My SPDs don't click.
You have not worn them down enough.
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Old 08-31-18, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by MMACH 5 View Post
I wear MTB cycling shorts and usually a cycling jersey of some sort on most trips to the store. And yea, I'm that dork walking around the store in my helmet with my SPDs clicking on the floor.

And when I have several stops to make at different stores, (grocery store, pet supply, etc) with my trailer behind me in 106°F heat, I'm certainly not going to make the 3 mile trip in jeans and a t-shirt.
My round trip is 16 miles to the store I shop at. Bike specific clothes for me.

Seems some want us to strip down next to the bike rack to change so they never have to see bike clothes on someone off a bicycle. Where do all these foolish demands that we dress the way THEY want us too come from?
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Old 08-31-18, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
Do you really dress up in your bicycling outfit/"kit", to include tight spandex pants, to go grocery shopping?
About the only time I wore "kit" was on Sunday bike rides... however, I wore bike shorts every day... either "spandex" or some other stretchy material... and yes, I often swung by the grocery store on the way home... filled my panniers with groceries, and then finished my commute...

Hey, just like the other commuters, like the guy in painter clothes, or the gal in nurse scrubs, or that guy in bank attire, who left his jacket in the car.

Really, does anyone care what one wears in a grocery store?

Anyone getting hung up on my "junk" has other "issues."
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Old 08-31-18, 09:06 PM
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Originally Posted by genec View Post
...
Hey, just like the other commuters, like the guy in painter clothes, or the gal in nurse scrubs, or that guy in bank attire, who left his jacket in the car.
...
I do have issues with nurses and doctors wearing scrubs outside the hospital or office. Hospitals and medical offices are the worst places for contacting disease. If they wore whatever clothes and showered after getting to the hospital/office put scrubs on, worked, showered and put their whatever clothes on and left, there would be a huge drop in the spreading of disease.

After working with hazardous materials and chemicals, I never wore the same clothes grocery shopping or home, exposing my wife and kids.
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Old 08-31-18, 10:16 PM
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Originally Posted by genec View Post
Really, does anyone care what one wears in a grocery store?
Or anywhere else for that matter.

It's odd that on a cycling board so many seem to care what other people wear when they ride.
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