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Intentional Hit & Run

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Intentional Hit & Run

Old 09-10-18, 03:00 PM
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Intentional Hit & Run

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Driver blocks bike path and cyclist rides in front of motorist.
Driver then drives down road to catch cyclist, waits until cyclist is in front of his car and motorist drives into cyclist and keeps driving.
Stupid motorist clearly did not know video was running.

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Old 09-10-18, 03:06 PM
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On video and audio. Multiple witnesses. Clearly deliberate. Clearly left the scene.

If the DA has an ounce of integrity, there's going to be a felony hit-and-run warrant sworn out for his arrest, indictment and an utterly sympathetic jury and judge.

Good way to ruin your reputation and your name. He appears to not care about that. He's earned every ounce of what he has coming. Hopefully he'll enjoy it once he's gotten it.
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Old 09-10-18, 03:30 PM
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Yep. I hope the motorist has the whole book thrown at him. What a psycho!
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Old 09-10-18, 04:20 PM
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Clearly intentional... but I would not have crossed in front of the moron motorist in the first place. Guy was poised to take off... or act as a jerk in the bikeway... either way.

Here's the thing... motorists always win the car/bike challenge. Yeah, you can bring the law, the courts, your big brother, your gang, into the fight... but at the first knockdown and damage... you already lost.

Why not just avoid such idiots in the first place. I know I know... you have "rights." I understand. But why taunt the bear? Just hope "the bear" meets a bigger bear in the future....
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Old 09-10-18, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by genec
Clearly intentional... but I would not have crossed in front of the moron motorist in the first place. Guy was poised to take off... or act as a jerk in the bikeway... either way.

Here's the thing... motorists always win the car/bike challenge. Yeah, you can bring the law, the courts, your big brother, your gang, into the fight... but at the first knockdown and damage... you already lost.

Why not just avoid such idiots in the first place. I know I know... you have "rights." I understand. But why taunt the bear? Just hope "the bear" meets a bigger bear in the future....
The car was stopped, presumably to allow the cyclist and pedestrians to cross before proceeding. Maybe cyclist didn't realize it was the same dude blocking the lane whom he admonished earlier. In any case, blaming the victim here is just bad form.

It's absolutely incumbent on the cyclist to ride safely, but there are something that you can't foresee. I'm not saying that this is or isn't one of them, but riding through a driveway entrance on a dedicated bike lane with right of way in broad day light is in no way, IMO, 'taunting the bear'.
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Old 09-10-18, 04:41 PM
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I have to say, I would not expect a driver to deliberately ram me. On another hand, I would certainly remember if I had some verbal altercation with some driver .. . and would definitely think k That guy might ram me. Tough call, here.

In any case ... everything now depends on the will of the cyclist to pursue the matter.

I notice the rider passes In Front of a car pulling out of a driveway … and later passes another cyclist and doesn’t shout out “On your left.”

If it had been me I would have gone behind the car blocking the road … which turned out be the idiot who hit him.

But since he didn’t call out “On your left” I vote we ban him from the Brotherhood of Serious Cyclists.

Last edited by Maelochs; 09-10-18 at 04:46 PM.
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Old 09-10-18, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by mcours2006
The car was stopped, presumably to allow the cyclist and pedestrians to cross before proceeding. Maybe cyclist didn't realize it was the same dude blocking the lane whom he admonished earlier. In any case, blaming the victim here is just bad form.

It's absolutely incumbent on the cyclist to ride safely, but there are something that you can't foresee. I'm not saying that this is or isn't one of them, but riding through a driveway entrance on a dedicated bike lane with right of way in broad day light is in no way, IMO, 'taunting the bear'.
Yeah... I know this comes off as blaming the victim... I didn't mean to convey that... but as a matter of safety, I try not to ride in front of motorists poised to take off... they don't look, they feel they own the road, and all too often "more power" is their only solution. The cyclist had two choices... behind or in front of the motorist...

The other cyclist wisely went behind the motorist... that was the best course.

The motorist is the one in the wrong. But the cyclist could have saved himself some grief.
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Old 09-10-18, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Maelochs
I have to say, I would not expect a driver to deliberately ram me. On another hand, I would certainly remember if I had some verbal altercation with some driver .. . and would definitely think k That guy might ram me. Tough call, here.

In any case ... everything now depends on the will of the cyclist to pursue the matter.

I notice the rider passes In Front of a car pulling out of a driveway … and later passes another cyclist and doesn’t shout out “On your left.”

If it had been me I would have gone behind the car blocking the road … which turned out be the idiot who hit him.

But since he didn’t call out “On your left” I vote we ban him from the Brotherhood of Serious Cyclists.
I agree. One has to learn to spot such idiots early on.
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Old 09-10-18, 04:53 PM
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Guy in the car was being a jerk. I think he moved a couple feet forward to scare the guy on the bike, but the bike went right into him. Would not surprise me if it was someone else's car (his mom's?). Pretty minor incident, though I'm sure it felt like the crime of the century to the guy on the bike.

I hate to say that this incident probably belongs in the "no harm no foul" category (unless the kid's dad is police chief or something) but I think it does. No damages that I could see, maybe a bent fork ($20 to bend back at the bike shop) and possibly a front wheel (maybe $75). We're not even talking $100 here.

I doubt anything will come of this, unless the guy on the bike was hurt worse than it looked. As it is, the guys car will likely be the most expensive thing to fix.
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Old 09-10-18, 05:11 PM
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BTW, just to clarify... I didn't think the cyclist should have gone in front of the driver at the first encounter... where the other cyclist had chosen to go behind the motorist.

At the second encounter... yes, it did appear as if the driver were waiting for cyclists or peds to clear. But again... ya just can't trust 'em. I don't even cross at stop signs when waved across.
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Old 09-10-18, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by genec
BTW, just to clarify... I didn't think the cyclist should have gone in front of the driver at the first encounter... where the other cyclist had chosen to go behind the motorist.

At the second encounter... yes, it did appear as if the driver were waiting for cyclists or peds to clear. But again... ya just can't trust 'em. I don't even cross at stop signs when waved across.
I agree. I probably would have gone behind in the first encounter as well, especially the direction the cyclist was riding--against the road traffic, and the fact that the car coming out of the driveway would have his attention directed away from the oncoming cyclist. A friend of mine was hit just in this fashion.
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Old 09-10-18, 05:50 PM
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It's hard to comprehend and judge the reality of a short video; however we shouldn't jump to form opinions based on the indignation of a cyclist whose road savvy seems to be a bit faulty.

First, why did the cyclist ride in front of the car exiting the store lot? Doesn't seem to bright to me. Should have gone around the back side of the car like the other cyclist. As to the head shaking, I doubt that the driver even noticed this. He was focused on turning left and probably just saw a blur as Captain Mazda zipped by. Cyclist said "He was blocking the previous driveway." No, he was exiting a store parking lot positioned in the way that was necessary for him to see cross traffic. This sort of thing will always be a problem for protected bike lanes; however most of us figure out how to handle it safely.

Second, I am not sure that it was intentional. The driver had stopped for the 2 other cyclists and was probably focused on them and unfortunately did not notice the cyclist approaching from the left. Same thing happened to me today; however because I anticipated the driver to move there was zero drama. This Captain Mazda dude made no attempt to slow, assuming that the driver was stopped for him as well. Bad assumption. Glad that he was not injured.
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Old 09-10-18, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Hoopdriver
It's hard to comprehend and judge the reality of a short video; however we shouldn't jump to form opinions based on the indignation of a cyclist whose road savvy seems to be a bit faulty.

First, why did the cyclist ride in front of the car exiting the store lot? Doesn't seem to bright to me. Should have gone around the back side of the car like the other cyclist. As to the head shaking, I doubt that the driver even noticed this. He was focused on turning left and probably just saw a blur as Captain Mazda zipped by. Cyclist said "He was blocking the previous driveway." No, he was exiting a store parking lot positioned in the way that was necessary for him to see cross traffic. This sort of thing will always be a problem for protected bike lanes; however most of us figure out how to handle it safely.

Second, I am not sure that it was intentional. The driver had stopped for the 2 other cyclists and was probably focused on them and unfortunately did not notice the cyclist approaching from the left. Same thing happened to me today; however because I anticipated the driver to move there was zero drama. This Captain Mazda dude made no attempt to slow, assuming that the driver was stopped for him as well. Bad assumption. Glad that he was not injured.
That won't stop stupid drivers. Today, commuting back home, a car at an intersection was blocking the bike path, waiting to enter traffic. Before I got there, it crept forward and cleared the bike path. As I was starting to pass BEHIND him, he backed up!!! Had to make evasive action not to hit him, lost my balance and almost fell in the process. Like I said, stupid drivers.
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Old 09-10-18, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by genec
Clearly intentional... but I would not have crossed in front of the moron motorist in the first place. Guy was poised to take off... or act as a jerk in the bikeway... either way.

Here's the thing... motorists always win the car/bike challenge. Yeah, you can bring the law, the courts, your big brother, your gang, into the fight... but at the first knockdown and damage... you already lost.

Why not just avoid such idiots in the first place. I know I know... you have "rights." I understand. But why taunt the bear? Just hope "the bear" meets a bigger bear in the future....
Well this guy wins for you and me. His unfortunate incident brings recognition to what cyclist have to endure and serves as an advantage for all of us. So as far as I'm concerned, he's my champion.
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Old 09-10-18, 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by SylvainG
That won't stop stupid drivers. Today, commuting back home, a car at an intersection was blocking the bike path, waiting to enter traffic. Before I got there, it crept forward and cleared the bike path. As I was starting to pass BEHIND him, he backed up!!! Had to make evasive action not to hit him, lost my balance and almost fell in the process. Like I said, stupid drivers.
Exactly... we smart, energy saving, cardio using, easy parking, low damage to roadway users have to just be one step ahead of the mouth-breathing couch riders.
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Old 09-10-18, 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted by genec
Exactly... we smart, energy saving, cardio using, easy parking, low damage to roadway users have to just be one step ahead of the mouth-breathing couch riders.
LOL, I like the way you think
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Old 09-10-18, 07:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Hoopdriver
It's hard to comprehend and judge the reality of a short video; however we shouldn't jump to form opinions based on the indignation of a cyclist whose road savvy seems to be a bit faulty.
First, how long does a photo take to legally determine if you're speeding? Second, his "savvy" isn't what at stake here, the law is. The motors here clearly violated the law on multiple counts.

First, why did the cyclist ride in front of the car exiting the store lot? Doesn't seem to bright to me. Should have gone around the back side of the car like the other cyclist. As to the head shaking, I doubt that the driver even noticed this. He was focused on turning left and probably just saw a blur as Captain Mazda zipped by. Cyclist said "He was blocking the previous driveway." No, he was exiting a store parking lot positioned in the way that was necessary for him to see cross traffic. This sort of thing will always be a problem for protected bike lanes; however most of us figure out how to handle it safely.
First, there is no safety from stupidity. Second, you go in front of someone so you can be seen. If the driver had stopped properly BEFORE the sidewalk, all cross traffic would pass in front of him.

Second, I am not sure that it was intentional. The driver had stopped for the 2 other cyclists and was probably focused on them and unfortunately did not notice the cyclist approaching from the left. Same thing happened to me today; however because I anticipated the driver to move there was zero drama. This Captain Mazda dude made no attempt to slow, assuming that the driver was stopped for him as well. Bad assumption. Glad that he was not injured.
You don't hit someone with your car by mistake and drive away. Besides, did he go temporarily blind after the two other cyclist passed in front of him?
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Old 09-10-18, 07:29 PM
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Driver might have looked down for a second and inched forward, I dunno. Wasn't there and neither were you.

Bike riders need to be alert for stuff like this, but maybe he just wanted to record some incident on his new camera, some people are like that, looking for something to get outraged at, especially if they can record it and post it on Youtube.

It looks to me as if it was the bike who hit the car, not the other way around.
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Old 09-10-18, 07:34 PM
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Point of fact, the motorist turned into the second bike path crossing to get in front of the cyclist and wait for him to arrive, then ram into him. If not true and motorist was headed to a destination, the parking lot, then why did the motorist not enter the parking lot. Because he could not get through the gate. At 1:51 you can see the motorist reverse lights on, backing away from the gate to turn around and leave.
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Old 09-10-18, 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Colnago Mixte
Driver might have looked down for a second and inched forward, I dunno. Wasn't there and neither were you.
What kind of wacky excuse is that? When you go through though the toll booth without paying there's not always a cop there. The electronics is your sole accuser. If it works then, it can work now. Besides, there were witnesses there and they corroborated the cyclist's story. And even if he did look down, he's still responsible for controlling his vehicle.

Bike riders need to be alert for stuff like this, but maybe he just wanted to record some incident on his new camera, some people are like that, looking for something to get outraged at, especially if they can record it and post it on Youtube.
Alert to what, someone randomly running you down?

It looks to me as if it was the bike who hit the car, not the other way around.
Perhaps you and that motorist should get your visions checked?
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Old 09-10-18, 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Hoopdriver
It's hard to comprehend and judge the reality of a short video; however we shouldn't jump to form opinions based on the indignation of a cyclist whose road savvy seems to be a bit faulty.

First, why did the cyclist ride in front of the car exiting the store lot? Doesn't seem to bright to me. Should have gone around the back side of the car like the other cyclist. As to the head shaking, I doubt that the driver even noticed this. He was focused on turning left and probably just saw a blur as Captain Mazda zipped by. Cyclist said "He was blocking the previous driveway." No, he was exiting a store parking lot positioned in the way that was necessary for him to see cross traffic. This sort of thing will always be a problem for protected bike lanes; however most of us figure out how to handle it safely.

Second, I am not sure that it was intentional. The driver had stopped for the 2 other cyclists and was probably focused on them and unfortunately did not notice the cyclist approaching from the left. Same thing happened to me today; however because I anticipated the driver to move there was zero drama. This Captain Mazda dude made no attempt to slow, assuming that the driver was stopped for him as well. Bad assumption. Glad that he was not injured.
I agree, the attitude the guy in the car showed is not the one I would expect if he did that in purposed (in front of witnesses and with no escape). Maybe he didn't see it because of deadspot

Following 15 meters to stop at the barrier I wouldn't consider it a 'hit and run' either he could have got nervous.
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Old 09-10-18, 08:28 PM
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The other cyclists were traveling the opposite direction, driver may have thought they were the only ones he had to wait for, and wasn't expecting the idiot on the bike who hit him, to be there. Whatever he did looks far more accidental to me than intentional.

I think driver made an honest human error, like we all do almost every day, but the biker goes nuclear. Which is 100% understandable in the heat of the moment, with adrenaline pumping, but in hindsight looks a little over the top to me.
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Old 09-10-18, 09:08 PM
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Originally Posted by mcours2006
The car was stopped, presumably to allow the cyclist and pedestrians to cross before proceeding. Maybe cyclist didn't realize it was the same dude blocking the lane whom he admonished earlier. In any case, blaming the victim here is just bad form.
Very bad form, but no matter how egregious the offence, there is always a bikeforum member who will defend the driver and blame the cyclist. My first thought on reading the OP was to wonder if someone here would defend a driver who used his vehicle to assault a cyclist. Sure enough, didn't take long.
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Old 09-10-18, 09:14 PM
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I'm not "defending" the driver, I'm just questioning whether what he did was "intentional" or not (a word used in the thread title) and I don't think it was. My only point, I'm outta here.
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Old 09-11-18, 12:33 AM
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Thankfully I don't have to side with the cyclist ... because I am not a cyclist, just some fat, couch-riding mouth-breather ... who rides a bike. I don't have to support the driver because I am not a fellow driver.

People who do feel a need to take sides, or like myself don't care about "sides," both make valid points here. My impression too was that the driver was watching the bikes crossing right-to-left and didn't see the guy coming from driver's left at speed.

That doesn't excuse hitting someone, but it does call into question how "delibrate" it was.

The cyclist here makes it sound like the guy in the car was stalking him, followed him down the block and waited for him, just to hit him. That is Assault With a Deadly Weapon with Intent to Commit Mayhem .... and exceedingly serious charge. It could be construed as Attempted Murder/First Degree because it was planned and premeditated.

In this case it might just be "Bad driver being stupid."

Recall, please, that the driver Waited for two bikes to pass. That leaves two scenarios: One, that he saw the video-recording cyclist shake his head at him---I did not----and followed him down the street with full intent to cripple or kill the cyclist; for the heinous offense of head-shaking; (I couldn't even seethe camera move, so head-shaking?)

OR,

The guy was stupid and impatient, saw two cyclists coming, and didn't figure another cyclist would Ride Right In Front of Him or Hit Him from the other side.

Personally, if I were riding that bike ... I would have seen the driver watching the two cyclists and if I couldn't get into the intersection While those two cyclists were there--to provide me cover, so to speak---I would Never try to dash through at speed before the car took off.

I would Expect---having ridden on the road so long---that the driver wouldn't look back but would just go once the other bikes were clear .... and in fact, I consider the actions of that cyclist Very Stupid as well. He was in such a hurry himself---as we always blame drivers for being---that he tried to squeeze ahead of the car. The outcome was predictable.

Pope @Jim from Boston often notes, "You do not have the right of way until another person yields it."

What I see here is a cyclist who tried to Take the right of way. Not a good plan.

None of these observations absolve the driver of his responsibility to make sure the roadway was clear before proceeding. The driver Could argue rationally that the cyclist came up too fast and effectively darted right in front of him---I hope that doesn't work, but it is sort of true.

As for the driver driving away .... maybe he panicked, maybe he just didn't care ... I cannot say. As others have noted, his reaction was not the reaction of a person who just tried to commit Vehicular Manslaughter.

What I see here is the concatenation of the utter disregard for others, selfishness, and sense of entitlement of Two people unfortunately crammed into a space where only one could fit.

By the way-----back up the video to 0:16 and check out what happens. The cyclist overtakes another cyclist heading in the same direction right at the driveway where the car is ready to pull out.

Please note: The sidewalk goes Behihnd the dirver. The other cyclist uses it.

The driver cannot safely pull into traffic starting ten or twenty feet back, behind the sidewalk---he wouldn't have enough view up or down the road.

The driver Has the Right to pull up to the edge of the road IF he is there and no one else is. The driver can make his maneuver legally. The Cyclist is forced by law to yield there. Basically the car got there first. And ... the car was Not blocking the sidewalk. The car was where the car was supposed to be, to pull into traffic. The cyclist could either wait his turn, or take the sidewalk.Share the road.

If I had been driving, that's where i would have been, too---far enough out to see up the road so I didn't pull in front of an oncoming car. It just makes sense.

Anyone who wants to send me the link to the specific Ontario law which prohibits that action would be doing a much appreciated service.

I notice also the yellow bollards, which in the U.S. means that the bike lane or MUP is approaching an intersection. I can see them in the video at 0:10 and quite clearly by 0:12. At 0:14 The other cyclist passes through them and calmly swings behind the vehicle---thus Not Impeding its Progress, safely and sensibly.

General rules of the road apply at intersections, like, you cannot blaze through an intersection because you are on a bike and want to. Whichever party got there second is supposed to yield or, for bikes, take the sidewalk. Again, it is just common sense. Just because the cyclist is in a "bike lane" it doesn't mean that he is in some inviolable and sacred space. The cyclist is still sharing the road.

At 1:07, one can see the two cyclists coming the other way just entering the intersection. The driver was in fact waiting for the lady with the black dog---the cyclists came up Just as she was finishing crossing.

Also---at 1:07 one can see that the car was advancing. The car was already moving forward----watch the wheels. In fact, the car was moving the whole time. Watch the video.

This means that the driver was not "waiting" for the cyclist, and did not rush forward to hit him. The car was moving forward slowly, waiting for the roadway to clear ... but was plainly moving the whole time it is on video.

At 1:08, the road ahead of the car is clear. The car is moving across the crosswalk because The Crosswalk Is Empty. The cyclist is riding at a fair clip towards the car, trying to beat it across ... but the car is already moving before the cyclist arrives at the intersection. The car had been rolling forwards since the cyclist saw it ... if he had bothered to notice.

The scrolling through from 1:08 to 1:09 it is clear the cyclist and the car are competing for space. The car was there first, and moving forward, and the cyclist decided to be impatient.

By the way---Notice the large letters which say "SLOW" before the intersection? Neither did the cyclist, who didn't slow at all.

Also .... the impact happens at the last millisecond of 1:09. The cyclist is almost all the way across the intersection ... but the car has been creeping forward at a pretty constant speed the whole time. There is No indication that the driver Tries to hit the cyclist. What I see is that the cyclist tried to beat a moving car across an intersection. What I see is a cyclist who didn't slow, despite the sign, and who rode into the path of a a moving car.

That said, there is a case to be made that the driver should have looked both ways before proceeding through the intersection---just in case some idiot cyclist tried to squeeze through.

I'd say it would be possible to ticket the driver of the car for unsafe operation. It would be equally possible to ticket the cyclist.

What Cannot be supported by this video, is any accusation that that particular motorist deliberately targeted that cyclist and ran him down. That part of it is pure BS.

I know a lot of people were can barely see white in their black-and-white worlds, and whenever anything happens involving a car and a bike, have to grab their torches and pitchforks and burn the driver.

Me, I don't have to take sides. I side with the truth and the facts, not with divers, walkers, cyclists, mahouts riding elephants, whatever.

The facts here are that the driver was impatient and potentially legally unsafe in rolling up to the intersection and not looking both ways ... and the cyclist was impatient and potentially legally unsafe for riding into the intersection full speed and trying to squeeze in front of a moving car.

There is No evidence that the driver targeted the cyclist or intended to hit the cyclist.

And on a strictly non-legal point---that rider is an IDIOT. He deliberately rode in front of a moving car, knowing that the driver had not acknowledged him and was watching cyclists coming the other way, and he is Surprised he got hit?

The cyclist gets a Darwin award from me.

In that situation I would have yelled, gestured, and until iI saw satisfactory confirmation that the driver saw me and had stopped ... I WOULD NOT RIDE IN FRONT OF A MOVING CAR

That cyclist is just stupid---And Incredibly lucky. If he had gotten crippled or killed, all his ranting about "He hunted me down" would not get him back on a bicycle.

The driver was a little careless. The cyclist was an ass.

I am glad the cyclist was unhurt and apparently his bike was not damaged.

I think the driver should get a ticket for unsafe driving and the cyclist a ticket for failing to yield.

And I think the cyclist should go home, sit down, a realize how Incredibly lucky he is to not have gotten really hurt with his stupid stunt.

Last edited by Maelochs; 09-11-18 at 12:48 AM.
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