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Cars Crossing Yellow Line

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Cars Crossing Yellow Line

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Old 09-14-18, 07:02 PM
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Equinox
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Cars Crossing Yellow Line

This is only tangentially related to cycling in that it's something we witness every ride. All drivers believe that they have an inalienable right to forward progress no matter what is in their way. The thought of slowing down for an obstacle is incomprehensible to them. It doesn't matter if it's a mom with a stroller, an ambulance, a utility truck, a delivery truck, a group of human beings on bicycles. The only option available is to move as far to the left as necessary to bypass the obstruction regardless of the presence of oncoming traffic. They believe it is incumbent upon oncoming traffic to move as far to their right as necessary to allow them to maintain their forward progress.
The offender today was a large commercial vehicle, which was surprising. There was utility work partially blocking the oncoming lane.Although I was lawfully occupying my lane, traveling in the opposite direction in my car, the dump truck crossed the yellow line proceeding head on into me forcing me to move to my right on to the shoulder to avoid certain death.
The thing is, my car has one of those lane departure systems. As I crossed the fog line it "nudged" me back into my lane. It was easy to override, but scary nonetheless.
Motto of the story: If there is something in blocking your lane, and there is traffic in the opposite direction, you must slow down or stop until it's safe to go around the obstruction. You cannot force on coming traffic on to the shoulder.
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Old 09-14-18, 07:28 PM
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Yep, got in a situation like that two years ago, A van going in the opposite direction slowed way down to turned right. The pickup truck (why must it often be pickup trucks?) behind him didn't want to wait and took my lane. My line had a really rough shoulder and having no traffic behind me, I was riding in the middle of the lane. Had to move into that rough should to avoid a collision. That stupid pickup driver had the audacity to yell at ME as we pass one another.
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Old 09-14-18, 10:02 PM
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When I was out on my ride today, for what was really the first time, since July 5th(the day I got back from a week-long only to have July be a month of rain, and August be a month of oppressive heat.). I encountered several drivers' with a 'me first' attitude. I went all the way out to the double-yellow. To let them know. The only way they were going to pass me on that two-lane road. Was by crossing the double-yellow. Numerous drivers' honked at me. I didn't care. On a two-lane road. I will only pull over for 911 vehicles' that are on an emergency call.
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Old 09-15-18, 05:19 AM
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I see this once or twice on every ride...oncoming crossing the line, without apparent reason...I assume they are engaged in cell phone antics vice a real desire to kill me, but who knows? Gotta watch.
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Old 09-15-18, 05:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Chris0516 View Post
When I was out on my ride today, for what was really the first time, since July 5th(the day I got back from a week-long only to have July be a month of rain, and August be a month of oppressive heat.). I encountered several drivers' with a 'me first' attitude. I went all the way out to the double-yellow. To let them know. The only way they were going to pass me on that two-lane road. Was by crossing the double-yellow. Numerous drivers' honked at me. I didn't care. On a two-lane road. I will only pull over for 911 vehicles' that are on an emergency call.
That's ironic. I will work with all the other road users to help them get to where they want to go. I do it when I am driving, I do it when I am walking, I do it when I am towing my boat, and I do it when I am cycling.
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Old 09-15-18, 05:37 AM
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"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

Impatient drivers don't become impatient just because there's a bicycle on the road. Look at the hazardous things drivers do routinely when you're driving. Defensive driving, whether a car or bike, means assuming other drivers are going to do stupid things.

We have a saying in our household. "Amanda Hill is out there!" Amanda Hill is the woman who totaled my son's car during college being impatient and utterly idiotic. So I remind my kids all the time that she and a million people like her are out there. They're the small percentage of drivers who cause 95% of accidents.
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Old 09-15-18, 06:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Paul Barnard View Post
That's ironic. I will work with all the other road users to help them get to where they want to go. I do it when I am driving, I do it when I am walking, I do it when I am towing my boat, and I do it when I am cycling.
Your attitude is admirable, commendable and ultimately, prudent. I do those things out of a sense of self preservation. You have a better attitude. The selfishness of the other driver makes me angry. His actions say, "I'm proceeding, no matter what, and I don't care what you have to do to accommodate me. I will disregard every convention, law and proper driving technique to continue my forward progress. If that means running you off the road, so be it. Slowing down or stopping for the obstruction is not an option. I have a right to proceed even if everything says I should not."
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Old 09-15-18, 07:18 AM
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I am often the "obstruction".

And, I find it extremely annoying the "must pass bicycles" attitude. While it is technically legal to cross a solid yellow to pass a bike in many or most places, I see cars doing it on blind corners quite frequently. Actually one reason that I'd advocate close passes (3'-5') rather than giving lots of space (whole lane).

There is a little ebb and flow of traffic, somewhat like a school of fish. With the speeds of passing, I'm surprised there aren't more accidents. But, I see it frequently that the oncoming traffic just moves to the right a bit, so the two cars and the bike can all safely pass.

That Lane Departure system sounds terrifying. Could the smart system potentially force a vehicle into a fatal head-on collision because it didn't allow a little movement right to give more clearance? I could imagine huge legal liability.

There was a video online from somewhere in the midwest with cars passing bikes, with one simply running off the road, passing on the grass and continuing going. Most of the roads around here have DITCHES!!!
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Old 09-15-18, 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Hokiedad4 View Post
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
One of my favorite quotes
From Napoleon, I think.
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Old 09-15-18, 07:39 AM
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Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
I am often the "obstruction".

And, I find it extremely annoying the "must pass bicycles" attitude. While it is technically legal to cross a solid yellow to pass a bike in many or most places, I see cars doing it on blind corners quite frequently. Actually one reason that I'd advocate close passes (3'-5') rather than giving lots of space (whole lane).

There is a little ebb and flow of traffic, somewhat like a school of fish. With the speeds of passing, I'm surprised there aren't more accidents. But, I see it frequently that the oncoming traffic just moves to the right a bit, so the two cars and the bike can all safely pass.

That Lane Departure system sounds terrifying. Could the smart system potentially force a vehicle into a fatal head-on collision because it didn't allow a little movement right to give more clearance? I could imagine huge legal liability.

There was a video online from somewhere in the midwest with cars passing bikes, with one simply running off the road, passing on the grass and continuing going. Most of the roads around here have DITCHES!!!
The lane departure system can be turned off. I have to be more mindful of when that system is appropriate. For example, on a highway trip, and not everyday driving.
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Old 09-15-18, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
I am often the "obstruction".

And, I find it extremely annoying the "must pass bicycles" attitude. While it is technically legal to cross a solid yellow to pass a bike in many or most places, I see cars doing it on blind corners quite frequently. Actually one reason that I'd advocate close passes (3'-5') rather than giving lots of space (whole lane).

There is a little ebb and flow of traffic, somewhat like a school of fish. With the speeds of passing, I'm surprised there aren't more accidents. But, I see it frequently that the oncoming traffic just moves to the right a bit, so the two cars and the bike can all safely pass.

That Lane Departure system sounds terrifying. Could the smart system potentially force a vehicle into a fatal head-on collision because it didn't allow a little movement right to give more clearance? I could imagine huge legal liability.

There was a video online from somewhere in the midwest with cars passing bikes, with one simply running off the road, passing on the grass and continuing going. Most of the roads around here have DITCHES!!!
I had thought there was an exception to California's 3 foot law, that allowed cars to cross a double yellow when passing bikes, but I don't see that provision in the text of the CA Vehicle Code anywhere. I thought all the people close-passing me because they refuse to cross a double yellow were merely misinformed, turns out I was the ignorant one.

The fine for violating the 3 foot rule is only $35, while the fine for crossing a double yellow is $234 and one DMV point. Makes much more sense to put my life in danger for a potential $35 fine, vs. a $234 fine for giving me some room. You gotta love it.

Thanks legislature.
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Old 09-15-18, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
I am often the "obstruction".

And, I find it extremely annoying the "must pass bicycles" attitude. While it is technically legal to cross a solid yellow to pass a bike in many or most places, I see cars doing it on blind corners quite frequently. Actually one reason that I'd advocate close passes (3'-5') rather than giving lots of space (whole lane).

There is a little ebb and flow of traffic, somewhat like a school of fish. With the speeds of passing, I'm surprised there aren't more accidents. But, I see it frequently that the oncoming traffic just moves to the right a bit, so the two cars and the bike can all safely pass.

That Lane Departure system sounds terrifying. Could the smart system potentially force a vehicle into a fatal head-on collision because it didn't allow a little movement right to give more clearance? I could imagine huge legal liability.

There was a video online from somewhere in the midwest with cars passing bikes, with one simply running off the road, passing on the grass and continuing going. Most of the roads around here have DITCHES!!!
Not limited to cars. I've seen so many bikes passing other bikes or pedestrians in blind corners on paths! I ring my bell before reaching those blind corners just in case some dimwit decides not to wait.
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Old 09-15-18, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Colnago Mixte View Post
I had thought there was an exception to California's 3 foot law, that allowed cars to cross a double yellow when passing bikes, but I don't see that provision in the text of the CA Vehicle Code anywhere. I thought all the people close-passing me because they refuse to cross a double yellow were merely misinformed, turns out I was the ignorant one.

The fine for violating the 3 foot rule is only $35, while the fine for crossing a double yellow is $234 and one DMV point. Makes much more sense to put my life in danger for a potential $35 fine, vs. a $234 fine for giving me some room. You gotta love it.

Thanks legislature.
I thought I had read the exception in the Oregon law, but it is actually a bit ambiguous.

See commentary here:
https://www.tcnf.legal/oregon-bicycle-passing-laws/

The legality hinges on a couple of things.
ORS 811.420(b) When an obstruction or condition exists making it necessary to drive to the left of the center of the roadway

&

ORS 811.065 which lists a bunch of illegal bike passes, however, not specifically saying crossing the yellow is illegal.

Nonethless, 811.065 (2) Passing a person operating a bicycle in a no passing zone in violation of ORS 811.420 (Passing in no passing zone) constitutes prima facie evidence of commission of the offense described in this section, unsafe passing of a person operating a bicycle, if the passing results in injury to or the death of the person operating the bicycle.
So, hitting a bicycle seems to make passing in a no passing zone illegal (no mention of hitting anything else like an oncoming car).

Of course, since bicycles are moving, a person is not really required to pass them at any given time.
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Old 09-15-18, 08:54 AM
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I think probably how it plays out in real life is, like many things in life, which law gets enforced and which law gets ignored is purely at the discretion of the cop writing the ticket.

Which is supposedly the whole reason we have written laws, to remove ambiguity, and avoid giving an imperfect traffic cop the power to pick winners and losers.

So just be polite, kiss up, and hope that maybe, just maybe, the cop will side with you and not the motorist.
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Old 09-15-18, 11:21 AM
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Cars Crossing Yellow Line
Originally Posted by Equinox View Post
This is only tangentially related to cycling in that it's something we witness every ride. All drivers believe that they have an inalienable right to forward progress no matter what is in their way. The thought of slowing down for an obstacle is incomprehensible to them. It doesn't matter if it's a mom with a stroller, an ambulance, a utility truck, a delivery truck, a group of human beings on bicycles.

The only option available is to move as far to the left as necessary to bypass the obstruction regardless of the presence of oncoming traffic. They believe it is incumbent upon oncoming traffic to move as far to their right as necessary to allow them to maintain their forward progress,


The offender today was a large commercial vehicle, which was surprising. There was utility work partially blocking the oncoming lane.Although I was lawfully occupying my lane, traveling in the opposite direction in my car, the dump truck crossed the yellow line proceeding head on into me forcing me to move to my right on to the shoulder to avoid certain death...

Motto of the story: If there is something in blocking your lane, and there is traffic in the opposite direction, you must slow down or stop until it's safe to go around the obstruction. You cannot force on coming traffic on to the shoulder. ….
Originally Posted by Jim from Boston View Post
…I have those exact thoughts whenever I am passed, even when not too close by motorist who does not slow down or move over slightly, just as an indication that they notice me.

I always think those self-absorbed cagers are only restrained by the thought of scratching their cars, or the hassle of filing police reports
That type of situation has inspired one of my “safety aphorisms” particularly in this situation:
Originally Posted by vol View Post
Head-on collision between group cyclists and car (video)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0EDpl7NZvk

"All the bikers is principal were thrown to the ground, but luckily the vehicle stopped to call emergency services
Originally Posted by njkayaker View Post
Narrow road. Fairly sharp turn. Not great visibility.

It's common for cyclists move to the outside. It's common for cars to move to the inside.

Neither cyclists or driver expected an opposing vehicle.

Thus, the result we saw.
Originally Posted by Jim from Boston View Post
…Over the past few months I have come to realize that my safety aphorisms, collected over the years by personal or vicarious experience,are my way of actively aligning the stars in my favor, to anticipate those unseen and otherwise unanticipated dangers.

FWIW, for my own information at least [including]:...
  • When approaching a curve with no forward sight lines, hug the curb…’tight to the right’...
Those are all I remember for now, and they all pop-up in my mind as I encounter the situation

Last edited by Jim from Boston; 09-17-18 at 12:48 PM.
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Old 09-15-18, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Hokiedad4 View Post
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

Impatient drivers don't become impatient just because there's a bicycle on the road. Look at the hazardous things drivers do routinely when you're driving. Defensive driving, whether a car or bike, means assuming other drivers are going to do stupid things.

We have a saying in our household. "Amanda Hill is out there!" Amanda Hill is the woman who totaled my son's car during college being impatient and utterly idiotic. So I remind my kids all the time that she and a million people like her are out there. They're the small percentage of drivers who cause 95% of collisions.
Very well stated and worth a repeat. This is exactly what it is... Watch out for Amanda!!! (I bet she votes too... )

BTW I fixed it for you... with drivers like Amanda, it is no "accident."
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Old 09-15-18, 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Paul Barnard View Post
That's ironic. I will work with all the other road users to help them get to where they want to go. I do it when I am driving, I do it when I am walking, I do it when I am towing my boat, and I do it when I am cycling.
I don't have a death wish. But I don't have a tremendous urge to become collateral damage, either. For a motorist that has an urgency comparable to needing to get to a restroom. By straddling the line. On a two-lane road, they are putting both, my life, and the life of the oncoming motorist in danger. On a four/six-lane road. They are putting my life, and the life of the motorist in the inside/middle lane in danger.


The scariest situation for me, involving a motorist. Wasn't in 1981 at 14yrs.-old. When an elderly woman cut her right turn too sharply, when I was trying to make the same right turn while also trying to avoid a parked car. I ended up with a quarter-sized scar on my foot for many years. From when my pedal dug into my foot from going under her car. But that eventually disappeared.


The scariest situation just a couple years ago. I was in a merge lane. When a myopic moron didn't think. He suddenly moved into the outside lane to pass me, then back into the merge lane. When he suddenly realized, the merge lane was ending. The road in question, is a six-lane divided arterial. The driver turned his wheels to the left, so hard and sudden. That he spun out, ending up facing the opposite direction in the inside lane.


https://www.google.com/maps/place/MD...!4d-77.1776628


I tried to paste a picture of the location. But it didn't work.


There is a sign noting that the merge lane is ending. By his spinning out. My first concern was the driver in the outside lane reacting to what the bad driver did.
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Old 09-15-18, 05:53 PM
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Here on Oahu, there's only a couple places where it's feasible for cars to pass each other on a 2-lane, and in those locations there is good, rideable shoulder for me. It is a bit nerve-wracking when that oncoming car is accelerating like crazy trying to get in front before reaching me. Mostly though it's motorcycles passing cars on the 2-lanes. As for cars passing me, they cross the yellows and it's on them. I have one road nearby that's currently 3 lane and no shoulder and cars pass me on the 1 lane direction, even though it's downhill and I am going about the speed limit (30-35). But the city plans to re-stripe that road section to 2 lanes which will allow for a shoulder area to ride. Of course, that's controversial.

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Old 09-18-18, 12:55 PM
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Force = mass x acceleration

No matter how angry you get, the physics don't lie. Nonetheless, it makes me what to stream from a GoPro to my local police office of all the missed ticketing opportunities.
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Old 09-18-18, 08:19 PM
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Originally Posted by GreggVA View Post
Force = mass x acceleration

No matter how angry you get, the physics don't lie. Nonetheless, it makes me what to stream from a GoPro to my local police office of all the missed ticketing opportunities.
But physics apply to being anywhere near a vehicle i.e. in front, behind, right, left. I have been hit from behind in a dual-turn lane. While waiting to merge into traffic. I have been hit by vehicles, while sharing the lane. As for streaming GoPro videos' to the police. Kudos' on that thought.
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Old 09-18-18, 08:30 PM
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This 4x4 rodeo clown almost took me out this weekend. he was completely in my lane going around that turn, a six inches from the edge of the road. Acted like he was doin' me a favor moving over enough not to kill me.

Some days i wish I was a traffic cop, crossin' a yellow line is a $234 fine in CA (close-passing a bike is only a $35 fine).




Is it me or does that truck almost scream "Multiple DUI'S!"
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Old 09-19-18, 11:02 AM
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What really chaps me is going down a narrow street like in my neighborhood, an oncoming car is headed your way and they swerve way to their left and directly into your path just to go around a parked car on their right. They give the parked car about 8' of clearance and run the risk of a head on collision with me doing so.

I still say that there is a good percentage of drivers who don't look much beyond the hood of their vehicle when driving.
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Old 09-25-18, 02:15 PM
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happens all the time on the Minuteman Bikeway. some riders think they can ride head on into my travel lane forcing me to slow or stop for them. um, no
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