Hey, A&S, fake helmets... heard of this?
#27
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Why sell a cheap helmet for, say, $9.95 when you can counterfeit an expensive helmet and sell it for, say, $49.95? Same goes for counterfeiting just about anything, they could go legitimate and produce cheap products, but there's more profit in faking an expensive product and selling it at the expensive (or just under) price.
#28
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Is the foot stomping demonstration conducted by the Specialized employee the "basic test" that the competition didn't pass?
I understand the legitimacy of complaining about the counterfeiting of the trademark and logos, and possible legality issues of helmets sold in the U.S. without the proper sticker applied, but I think the NPR report about "failed tests" based solely on what the Specialized representative hints at is shoddy reporting, and is more a PR piece to justify the high price of Specialized helmets.
I understand the legitimacy of complaining about the counterfeiting of the trademark and logos, and possible legality issues of helmets sold in the U.S. without the proper sticker applied, but I think the NPR report about "failed tests" based solely on what the Specialized representative hints at is shoddy reporting, and is more a PR piece to justify the high price of Specialized helmets.
For a start, you'd show an uncut film of a bowling ball being dropped onto one, and then the same ball, kept in the frame, being dropped on the other from the same height.
But even then, there's no measurement of how much of the impact is transferred to the skull - a harder hat can do more damage than a softer one.
So.. 45g lighter, eh..?
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It's an unbiased test in the same vein as checking the price tag is a safety "test", i.e. if it undercuts the selling price of the preferred item sold in your LBS (or previously purchased price), it is an indication of lesser capability to pass certification testing and that any labels that are affixed that state otherwise must be phony.
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It's an unbiased test in the same vein as checking the price tag is a safety "test", i.e. if it undercuts the selling price of the preferred item sold in your LBS (or previously purchased price), it is an indication of lesser capability to pass certification testing and that any labels that are affixed that state otherwise must be phony.
BTW, it’s not a crime to buy a counterfeit. It’s just beyond stupid.
But if you sell a counterfeit, that’s a crime.
(Which is why the genius who bought counterfeit helmets on Alibaba but then sold them on eBay was sentenced last week.)
-mr. bill
Last edited by mr_bill; 09-20-18 at 03:04 PM.
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My exiwfe would occasionally travel abroad for work, and came back with a fake ladies Rolex after a trip. She knew it was fake and gave it to her sister after telling her it was fake, but the sister liked it anyway. The watch got stolen out of a gym locker one day, and we all were amused at the effort the thief put into buying a watch that had cost so little.
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My exiwfe would occasionally travel abroad for work, and came back with a fake ladies Rolex after a trip. She knew it was fake and gave it to her sister after telling her it was fake, but the sister liked it anyway. The watch got stolen out of a gym locker one day, and we all were amused at the effort the thief put into buying a watch that had cost so little.
If so, perhaps in order to protect their brand name, Rolex better get in touch with NPR and inform them of some "basic tests" that Rolex says the fakes did not pass so that NPR can repeat (unquestioned) the company line of the alleged danger of counterfeit brands.
Last edited by I-Like-To-Bike; 09-20-18 at 03:38 PM.
#34
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What's more, how is that even a test?! How do we know they're not the same strength, just being stamped on with a very unequal amount of vigour..?
For a start, you'd show an uncut film of a bowling ball being dropped onto one, and then the same ball, kept in the frame, being dropped on the other from the same height.
But even then, there's no measurement of how much of the impact is transferred to the skull - a harder hat can do more damage than a softer one.
So.. 45g lighter, eh..?
For a start, you'd show an uncut film of a bowling ball being dropped onto one, and then the same ball, kept in the frame, being dropped on the other from the same height.
But even then, there's no measurement of how much of the impact is transferred to the skull - a harder hat can do more damage than a softer one.
So.. 45g lighter, eh..?
Was your ex-wife's safety compromised in any way due to the fake logo, did it not tell time as well as the genuine article?
If so, perhaps in order to protect their brand name, Rolex better get in touch with NPR and inform them of some "basic tests" that Rolex says the fakes did not pass so that NPR can repeat (unquestioned) the company line of the alleged danger of counterfeit brands.
If so, perhaps in order to protect their brand name, Rolex better get in touch with NPR and inform them of some "basic tests" that Rolex says the fakes did not pass so that NPR can repeat (unquestioned) the company line of the alleged danger of counterfeit brands.
So let's try this from the top... the same tests that Specialized brand helmets must pass, the fake helmets did not pass. The tests were run in the Specialized lab... just like cell phones are tested in the manufacturers labs, and the documentation is released to the agencies that "permit" the phones.
Wow... I mean wow.
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Did either one of you bother going to the supplied link... where it is explained that the same tests that are given to sanctioned Specialized brand helmets were also given to the fake helmets, which failed miserably... NPR did not conduct the tests, the foot stomp is NOT one of the tests, just an illustration.
So let's try this from the top... the same tests that Specialized brand helmets must pass, the fake helmets did not pass. The tests were run in the Specialized lab... just like cell phones are tested in the manufacturers labs, and the documentation is released to the agencies that "permit" the phones.
Wow... I mean wow.
So let's try this from the top... the same tests that Specialized brand helmets must pass, the fake helmets did not pass. The tests were run in the Specialized lab... just like cell phones are tested in the manufacturers labs, and the documentation is released to the agencies that "permit" the phones.
Wow... I mean wow.
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But counterfeit stickers!
-mr. bill
Last edited by mr_bill; 09-21-18 at 06:44 AM.
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Yeah, "They" do describe a failure of a competitor's sample failing a test "they" conducted on "their" equipment. "They" being motivated but of course unbiased Specialized employees and spokesman.
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Unreasonable, but ok....
-mr. bill
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Originally Posted by mr_bill;20576927[left
BTW, it’s not a crime to buy a counterfeit. It’s just beyond stupid.
-mr. bill
-mr. bill
#40
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The thing is, that faking such testing doesn't do the test lab a bit of good, as there are other test labs that can confirm the testing, and as a lab, you do not want your credibility (and test certificate) to be questioned. This "independent testing" by our lab was part of our revenue stream... and at times we considered just spinning off that particular function.
So yes, it is quite common for "They or Them" to test a competitor's samples.
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To amplify---yes, Specialized was frar from "independent." I would assume when they released the video of how bad the Specialized knock-off frame was, they picked the worst they could find and also picked the best of a few of their own.
In this test, I am sure they only showed the most dramatic failures of the very cheapest, lowest-grade knock-off helmets. But once they picked the flimsiest of the cheap knock-off helmets, why fake the test then? They already knew their gear would pass---it's certified, it had already passed--- and they knew the cheap stuff wouldn't. No point in faking the test at that point.
In this test, I am sure they only showed the most dramatic failures of the very cheapest, lowest-grade knock-off helmets. But once they picked the flimsiest of the cheap knock-off helmets, why fake the test then? They already knew their gear would pass---it's certified, it had already passed--- and they knew the cheap stuff wouldn't. No point in faking the test at that point.
#42
Cycleway town
How are their tests even relevant to me? Who decides what is a suitable cycle helmet crash test? Did I vote for that?
I put something on my head, i fall off my bike and bang my head, I've got a cheap cycle hat on and it protects my head from the impact. I also have a bit of road rash, as you do. I did not fall off a cliff, or get flattened by a truck.
Specialized's tests are no more relevant to me than Yim Chong's, tbh. What matters is that the helmet does what it needs to under the circumstances i ride. And as soon as I've bounced it off the ground once I've gotta throw it away, whatever it costs.
I don't even wear a helmet. I've come off loadsa times, all manner of bikes, never hit my head. Some will say... "hey, even if you wear a really cheap thing that hasnt passed stringent tests from the likes of Specialized, you're better off with something."
I put something on my head, i fall off my bike and bang my head, I've got a cheap cycle hat on and it protects my head from the impact. I also have a bit of road rash, as you do. I did not fall off a cliff, or get flattened by a truck.
Specialized's tests are no more relevant to me than Yim Chong's, tbh. What matters is that the helmet does what it needs to under the circumstances i ride. And as soon as I've bounced it off the ground once I've gotta throw it away, whatever it costs.
I don't even wear a helmet. I've come off loadsa times, all manner of bikes, never hit my head. Some will say... "hey, even if you wear a really cheap thing that hasnt passed stringent tests from the likes of Specialized, you're better off with something."
#43
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To amplify---yes, Specialized was frar from "independent." I would assume when they released the video of how bad the Specialized knock-off frame was, they picked the worst they could find and also picked the best of a few of their own.
In this test, I am sure they only showed the most dramatic failures of the very cheapest, lowest-grade knock-off helmets. But once they picked the flimsiest of the cheap knock-off helmets, why fake the test then? They already knew their gear would pass---it's certified, it had already passed--- and they knew the cheap stuff wouldn't. No point in faking the test at that point.
In this test, I am sure they only showed the most dramatic failures of the very cheapest, lowest-grade knock-off helmets. But once they picked the flimsiest of the cheap knock-off helmets, why fake the test then? They already knew their gear would pass---it's certified, it had already passed--- and they knew the cheap stuff wouldn't. No point in faking the test at that point.
Just how representative was the testing results (BTW NPR, how many samples failed) provided by the Specialized PR department to NPR? Was the so-called testing conducted just long enough to provide a reject and:
Voila! "Mission Accomplished Call up NPR! Be sure to provide them the video of the goofball stomp "test" it is sure to impress the gullible brand name junkies.
#44
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Another point to consider is how many items were tested by Specialized? Does every Specialized brand sample pass every test every time, does every sample of so-called fake helmets fail testing every time? Does one failure disqualify a production run from certification qualification?
Just how representative was the testing results (BTW NPR, how many samples failed) provided by the Specialized PR department to NPR? Was the so-called testing conducted just long enough to provide a reject and:
Just how representative was the testing results (BTW NPR, how many samples failed) provided by the Specialized PR department to NPR? Was the so-called testing conducted just long enough to provide a reject and:
Voila! "Mission Accomplished Call up NPR! Be sure to provide them the video of the goofball stomp "test" it is sure to impress the gullible brand name junkies.
I would think someone with your knowledge of statistics would understand the concept of batch testing...
And yes, did they really have to step on a helmet to show the failure... well it was probably more dramatic than just watching a needle go into the red zone on a piece of test equipment... (or even more boring... just reach a number and then have that number declared to be excessive.
Again, you know there are standards, that have been established by federal agencies...
#45
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Do you also insist that crash tests be performed on each and every automobile that comes off the line? Or can one or two models of that production run be used to satisfy the crash test requirements?
I would think someone with your knowledge of statistics would understand the concept of batch testing...
And yes, did they really have to step on a helmet to show the failure... well it was probably more dramatic than just watching a needle go into the red zone on a piece of test equipment... (or even more boring... just reach a number and then have that number declared to be excessive.
Again, you know there are standards, that have been established by federal agencies...
I would think someone with your knowledge of statistics would understand the concept of batch testing...
And yes, did they really have to step on a helmet to show the failure... well it was probably more dramatic than just watching a needle go into the red zone on a piece of test equipment... (or even more boring... just reach a number and then have that number declared to be excessive.
Again, you know there are standards, that have been established by federal agencies...
You previously posted about your experience in the testing field: "I worked in the cell phone and wireless industry... we regularly tested devices from competitors, as the investment for the equipment and certification to do so was pretty high. Our tests were given to the company that wanted the tests, and released to the potential carrier, if so requested." In the case of a single sample failure was the customer, as well as NPR, advised that all production from that source was faulty and that none of the product from the source was any good?
Do Federal standards tests consist of finding an item from the competitor that fails a single test in order to publicize the result as a justification for the sales/marketing department to price their own product at high markups?
What makes you think that Specialized was running any kind of unbiased sampling and testing of competitors helmets for compliance with federal standards and that the NPR so-called report is a result of unbiased testing conducted IAW Federal standards (or any standard)? How many samples were selected, how many failed? Does Specialized inform NPR every time one their own helmet samples fails a test process?
I find your gullibility astonishing on the issue of Specialized's allegedly independent testing of their lower priced competition that furnished no details other than bad mouthing of the competitors by Specialized and a video of a goofball publicity stunt.
Last edited by I-Like-To-Bike; 09-23-18 at 02:15 PM.
#46
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When people online argue endlessly, not seeking any resolution, but merely trying to closely parse other posts to find ways to deliberately misconstrue those posts and then attack the deliberate misinterpretations ... it is is called "I-Like-to Internet-Bicker."
#47
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No one said that destructive tests are required on every helmet prior to legal sale. The standard should designate how many samples must be selected from a lot, batch or a production run and just how many failures/defects are permitted from the test samples.
You previously posted about your experience in the testing field: "I worked in the cell phone and wireless industry... we regularly tested devices from competitors, as the investment for the equipment and certification to do so was pretty high. Our tests were given to the company that wanted the tests, and released to the potential carrier, if so requested." In the case of a single sample failure was the customer, as well as NPR, advised that all production from that source was faulty and that none of the product from the source was any good?
Do Federal standards tests consist of finding an item from the competitor that fails a single test in order to publicize the result as a justification for the sales/marketing department to price their own product at high markups?
What makes you think that Specialized was running any kind of unbiased sampling and testing of competitors helmets for compliance with federal standards and that the NPR so-called report is a result of unbiased testing conducted IAW Federal standards (or any standard)? How many samples were selected, how many failed? Does Specialized inform NPR every time one their own helmet samples fails a test process?
I find your gullibility astonishing on the issue of Specialized's allegedly independent testing of their lower priced competition that furnished no details other than bad mouthing of the competitors by Specialized and a video of a goofball publicity stunt.
You previously posted about your experience in the testing field: "I worked in the cell phone and wireless industry... we regularly tested devices from competitors, as the investment for the equipment and certification to do so was pretty high. Our tests were given to the company that wanted the tests, and released to the potential carrier, if so requested." In the case of a single sample failure was the customer, as well as NPR, advised that all production from that source was faulty and that none of the product from the source was any good?
Do Federal standards tests consist of finding an item from the competitor that fails a single test in order to publicize the result as a justification for the sales/marketing department to price their own product at high markups?
What makes you think that Specialized was running any kind of unbiased sampling and testing of competitors helmets for compliance with federal standards and that the NPR so-called report is a result of unbiased testing conducted IAW Federal standards (or any standard)? How many samples were selected, how many failed? Does Specialized inform NPR every time one their own helmet samples fails a test process?
I find your gullibility astonishing on the issue of Specialized's allegedly independent testing of their lower priced competition that furnished no details other than bad mouthing of the competitors by Specialized and a video of a goofball publicity stunt.
I doubt Specialized is running samples of helmets for competitors, I do suspect they are doing the tests to inform the public and justify the price of their helmets... and thus contacted NPR with their findings... would you have been happier of they contacted NBC or someone else regarding this story?
For NFL counterfeit uniforms, it appears that the interested parties notify government agencies when they find fakes... much like Specialized is doing.
Operation Team Player, timed for Super Bowl 51 on Sunday, makes for good TV and is designed to publicize the growing prevalence of fakes.
Stings for fake sports merchandise are mostly timed to major events such as the World Series, Super Bowl and Stanley Cup. The rest of the year, brands bear the responsibility of policing the internet themselves. For example, Major League Baseball alone sent Amazon 150,000 requests to take down counterfeit goods listed since the playoffs in October. The online store Fanatics hired a former federal prosecutor to help it fight online counterfeits.
Stings for fake sports merchandise are mostly timed to major events such as the World Series, Super Bowl and Stanley Cup. The rest of the year, brands bear the responsibility of policing the internet themselves. For example, Major League Baseball alone sent Amazon 150,000 requests to take down counterfeit goods listed since the playoffs in October. The online store Fanatics hired a former federal prosecutor to help it fight online counterfeits.
So how is it wrong for Specialized to go to NPR with their issues?
And as far as the phone lab testing... the competition can submit as many wireless devices as they want for testing... passing or not... but ultimately when they want to take something to the market, they must request that approved certificates are sent to the FCC and the carrier involved... The testing agency then submits the actual results. No further changes are then allowed for that certified device.
#48
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When federal government departments test against "competitors" it is called "War."
When people online argue endlessly, not seeking any resolution, but merely trying to closely parse other posts to find ways to deliberately misconstrue those posts and then attack the deliberate misinterpretations ... it is is called "I-Like-to Internet-Bicker."
When people online argue endlessly, not seeking any resolution, but merely trying to closely parse other posts to find ways to deliberately misconstrue those posts and then attack the deliberate misinterpretations ... it is is called "I-Like-to Internet-Bicker."
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Just noting that the person who WANTS TO BELIEVE in the validity of counterfeit "specialized" helmet shaped object with the counterfeit CE EN 1078 appearing stickers has his gullibility bit inverted.
Unbelievable.
-mr. bill
Unbelievable.
-mr. bill
Last edited by mr_bill; 09-25-18 at 10:25 AM.
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Helmet threads always deliver!