Maelochs

Please, let us not engage with certain posters ... something about throwing food under bridges ......

Chris0516

What is so hard about knowing. That a motorist doesn't want to 'wait'. Behind a cyclist. Also, That some 'motorists' don't want to wait for a 'safe' chance to pass the cyclist.

SHBR

How many times have you been hit by motorists?

In addition to location being important, so is timing.

Get either of these wrong, and it won't end well.

SHBR

10X as many posts as I.

You ought to take your own advice eh?

Chris0516

To answer your first question.

Every time I wasn't 'taking the lane'.

1981, I was cut off and nearly killed on a four-lane arterial. An elderly driver thought it would be no problem to overtake me in a right-turn
1996, Four-lane arterial. Driver tried to pass me in the lane, instead of changing lanes.
2004, Four-lane N/S arterial. Driver tried to pass me in the same outside lane. Resulting in knocking me off my bike.
2013, Six-lane N/S arterial in outside lane. Driver tried to pass me in the same lane. Resulting in knocking me off my bike.
2014, Small town center two-lane road w/ on-street parking parallel to traffic-flow. In 'door zone' instead of 'taking the lane'. Driver tried to pass me in the lane, hitting me n' knocking me off my bike.

Timing would make difference if, I were changing lanes

SHBR

^ ^
Most sane people would have given up riding on multi-lane roads after just one accident, you however kept on, and subsequently got hit 3 more times.

How long before you get hit yet again "taking the lane"?

Even tractors and heavy equipment get hit all the time, and they usually have no where else to be, other than in the lane.

I prefer not to get "knocked off my bike" and if I did, I would seriously consider a new hobby and/or a different place to ride.

mcours2006

He's saying he wasn't 'taking the lane' on all those occasions when he was hit. But I agree with what you are saying about cycling on multi-lane arterial roads. I avoid them like the plague.

SHBR

Its a present and future tense rhetorical question, hopefully it never gets answered.

KraneXL

It seems so simple when you say it like that. Similarly, "why doesn't all minimum wage people in American just get better jobs?" I could ask questions like this all day, but hopefully you can deduce the intent without the need to.

Leisesturm

There is a nationally prominent discussion board that has a number of sub-fora that I participate in. I will not, however, participate in their cycling forum because it is a sub-set of the 'Hobbies and Recreation' suite of topics and for me cycling is hardly what I would consider a hobby. Do you consider driving a hobby? Most do not. It is transportation. A cyclist that commutes Monday through Friday by bicycle on the very same roads, and in the very same weather conditions that motorists do, should not have to discuss their activities under the 'hobby' umbrella. IMO. But I take your point. After a 3rd fender bender I would probably hire a chauffeur and cancel my car insurance.

Leisesturm

Seriously? You are going to equate being locked out of upward mobility with altering ones approach to cycling with motor vehicles around? Be ashamed. I have NEVER had actual unwanted contact with a motor vehicle and hope never to do so. If it ever does happen that will be the end of cycling for me. I don't need anymore warning than a one time occurrence of something awful to give me the heads up.

Maelochs

I on the other hand have been rammed from behind, while stationary, by a car traveling about 55 mph---while I was driving. I guess I should stop driving.

I have also had some scrapes involving cars while riding a bike. But then, I have crashed on slick pavement---on at least one occasion that stands out an oily film of heavy dew which made he apex of a corner slick while every other part of the road was dry.

I guess i shouldn't ride on pavement, of when there is dew. But then---I have crashed on my mountain bike. i guess i should stick to walking.

Or maybe ... i should just assess the risks and rewards logically, adapt my behavior when possible, and continue to drive when I need to and ride while I can.

People, seriously .. It Isn't That Hard.

chicagogal

How can a cyclist make a left turn without "taking the lane?"

eja_ bottecchia

mr_bill

Maelochs

Why is this considered a valid question?

If it is safe to turn left, I turn left. I can turn left from anywhere on the road. I can turn left from the far right gutter. Either it is safe to go or not.

In fact, many of my left turns are made from left-turn lanes---where I set up in the Far Right of the lane (FRAP specifies far right of the lane of travel, not necessarily the right-hand lane.) As a rule, crossing from the right lane to the turn lane is sketchier by far than turning---people expect me to turn from a turn lane, and often there is a signal. I can always give a signal, but when I am trying to cross a lane or two of traffic that signal might not be noticed by drivers in the middle lane (and good as I am I cannot take Two lanes when trying for the third, left-turn lane on a two-lanes-each-way road. I am sure some the more experienced "Take a Lane" advocates can take three of four lanes at a time with ease.)

As for why I think the question is invalid---"Taking the Lane" as expressed in VC is not a strategy for making turns, as we know---it is a strategy for riding at all times in the middle of the lane, blocking traffic. Also, as I stated, if there are no cars coming, I do not have to be in the middle of the lane to turn left---so the question is even more meaningless.

The whole "Take the Lane" thing is as has been stated clearly, just One tactic for maneuvering safely in traffic.

Seriously, if you cannot figure out how to make a left turn ... maybe stick to indoor trainers?

As I have noted in other posts recently ... ALL of us do these things all the time. We make left and right turns, accelerate and brake, maneuver through traffic .... and It Is Easy.

Taking one tactic and making a big deal out of it ... well, great if you want to sell books, I guess. I want to ride bikes. And when I want to make a left turn, I turn left.

Setting up a false dichotomy between "People Who Take the Lane" and "Gutter Suckers" only serves to create conflict. No one is saying taking the lane is a bad idea per se ... just that it is only one tool in the tool box. I do not tend to hammer screws. You can if you like.

bobwysiwyg

Michigan Lefts work well, as do traffic circles, aka roundabouts. However, they require more real estate which may may not be available retrospectively.

SHBR

I sometimes use this method in unfamiliar territory.

SHBR

This is my opinion regarding the risks of riding on high speed multi-lane roads.

Its totally OK if anyone disagrees, no worries.

I seriously hope that most people don't have to accept minimum wage jobs.

I've done my fair share of low wage work, its better than being injured and stuck in the hospital, wondering how you are going to pay the bills without insurance.

KraneXL

Then how would you know?

Anyway, it was an analogy, but perhaps I should have used one a bit more cliche? How about "it is better to have loved and lost, than never to have loved at all?"

Then again, maybe I need to say it directly so here it is -- "life is more complicated than that." There's a chance in failure or negative consequence in everything we do. But if you never take chances, you never move ahead, experience life, and learn from your failures and successes.

OBoile

I get this and I agree.
This seems very irrational to me. You know there's a risk of being hit now. After being hit once, your risk of being hit *again* is exactly what your current risk of being hit is. Cycling doesn't become more dangerous just because something bad happened.

OBoile

I've used the two stage thing a couple of times. It works well.

Commuter19

NJgreyhead

Talk about taking the lane... Irony?

Lemond1985

I think that's in Australia. Sign should read "Give Cyclists Spice".