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I've always thought this might be true.

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I've always thought this might be true.

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Old 10-10-18, 07:45 AM
  #1  
astrodust
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I've always thought this might be true.

Cyclists are better drivers.


https://www.forbes.com/sites/carltonreid/2018/10/09/cyclists-are-better-drivers-than-motorists-finds-study/#7ef9fdcf6f6c
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Old 10-10-18, 08:03 AM
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Statistically this may look right, but is it really so? My own experience is that I feel much less competent since cutting my driving miles drastically (while increasing cycling miles) over the last 10 years. Maybe it's just my perception though since I do tend to drive with a bit more awareness because of my cycling. It's just that I don't seem to pick up clues about traffic patterns, road hazards, etc. as easily as I did when I was a car enthusiast.

Also, in my area there have been changes over the last 15 years that definitely affect my perception of competence: More traffic coupled with less enforcement of infractions. The former causes more driver stress that results in them more likely to do bonehead moves to "get ahead", the second just enables the first in a vicious circle.

Thanks for posting this.
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Old 10-10-18, 09:36 AM
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It was more than stastically studied... they did testing in labs and noticed that cyclists simply had faster recognition of the traffic situation... noticed other traffic entering situations and observed other cyclists and motorcyclists vastly sooner than the control group of non cycling drivers... and concluded this:
Beanland’s study concludes that “cycling experience is associated with more efficient attentional processing for road scenes” and she suggests that road safety would be improved for all if more motorists also cycled.
See, cycling SHOULD be part of road use education... on so many levels.
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Old 10-10-18, 09:50 AM
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I'm not surprised considering the consequences of getting it wrong for motorists vs cyclists. Cyclists are much more vulnerable, so probably less likely to put themselves in unwise positions. I'm sure doing one makes you better at the other.
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Old 10-10-18, 10:05 AM
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Good to know. Now call me when it becomes a profile questions on the cost of insurance premiums.
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Old 10-10-18, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by KraneXL View Post
Good to know. Now call me when it becomes a profile questions on the cost of insurance premiums.
It is for this particular company in the UK.

As far as US... I used to get a better rate with Geico simply due to driving fewer miles... they would ask me how many miles were on my vehicle each year... and then gave me an RV rate. So not really a "reward" for being a "better driver," but simply due to lower driving miles.
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Old 10-10-18, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by genec View Post
As far as US... I used to get a better rate with Geico simply due to driving fewer miles... they would ask me how many miles were on my vehicle each year... and then gave me an RV rate. So not really a "reward" for being a "better driver," but simply due to lower driving miles.
Yep. I bought my vehicle home at the beginning of July, 2016. Just about to hit 6,000 miles. At one point GEICO tried to raise my rates. I argued with them based on my low miles and they dropped it back down when I threatened to call Flo.
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Old 10-10-18, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by indyfabz View Post
Yep. I bought my vehicle home at the beginning of July, 2016. Just about to hit 6,000 miles. At one point GEICO tried to raise my rates. I argued with them based on my low miles and they dropped it back down when I threatened to call Flo.
Right, but we are getting that rate based on the fewer miles we drive, not our "skill" as cyclists.
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Old 10-10-18, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by genec View Post
Right, but we are getting that rate based on the fewer miles we drive, not our "skill" as cyclists.
Yep. GEICO has no idea that I even ride a bike.

What really gets my goat is when a motorist with a bike rack and possibly a bike on it drives like an a-hole around other cyclists.

On Sunday I was riding a trail. There were two other cyclists somewhat near me. We reached a road crossing that also allowed access to a trailhead parking lot. Some DB with a bike on his came speeding down the road and turned fast into the parking lot, nearly hitting the two other cyclists.
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Old 10-10-18, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Bicyclist008 View Post
I'm not surprised considering the consequences of getting it wrong for motorists vs cyclists. Cyclists are much more vulnerable, so probably less likely to put themselves in unwise positions. I'm sure doing one makes you better at the other.
Yeah, no question in my mind this makes sense. As a cyclist you have to be much more aware of what's happening and this awareness should transfer to your driving habits.

I think cyclists will generally look for and be more aware of vulnerable users (peds and cyclists) when driving and be more alert to dangerous situations developing in traffic.
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Old 10-10-18, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by genec View Post
Right, but we are getting that rate based on the fewer miles we drive, not our "skill" as cyclists.
I get a better car insurance rate for insuring my house with the same company, I also get a better rate for insuring a second car with the same company.

I get a discount on both cars because of their low annual mileage.

All of these reductions are NOT based on my driving skill; that reduction I get in addition because I never had a car collision claim.

I have made claims on comprehensive insurance for hail damage (totaled the car), stone and volleyball damaged windshields and deer strike fender damage, but that did not affect insurance rates in any way.
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Old 10-10-18, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by genec View Post
It was more than stastically studied... they did testing in labs and noticed that cyclists simply had faster recognition of the traffic situation... noticed other traffic entering situations and observed other cyclists and motorcyclists vastly sooner than the control group of non cycling drivers
I believe this 100% and even more so for cyclists who are adept at using mirrors while cycling. Not only am I looking for 2-wheeled road users from behind the steering wheel, but I am much more patient when it comes to getting past them, or NOT passing them at all. I also notice all pedestrians and even stop to let them cross, which in my city really confuses them.

Originally Posted by genec View Post
... and concluded this: See, cycling SHOULD be part of road use education... on so many levels.
"Spend a day in my shoes/cleats?" Not so sure I want people who are forced to cycle anywhere near a road.
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Old 10-10-18, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by JoeyBike View Post
I believe this 100% and even more so for cyclists who are adept at using mirrors while cycling. Not only am I looking for 2-wheeled road users from behind the steering wheel, but I am much more patient when it comes to getting past them, or NOT passing them at all. I also notice all pedestrians and even stop to let them cross, which in my city really confuses them.



"Spend a day in my shoes/cleats?" Not so sure I want people who are forced to cycle anywhere near a road.
Not a day... I think a semester, early in their education, should be devoted to cycling as transportation and encouraged.

Later, when they take drivers ed, that prior road use knowledge is then part of their over all road use education... I also feel that drivers need more than 40 hours training... and should be trained to understand the ethics of driving a car and what "share the road" really means.

We do this with math, english and other subjects... addition and subtraction before algebra... etc... yet, driving, something people do as a life long activity... and that has the potential to kill, we cast off a quick 40 hour haphazard training thing... and wonder why 40,000 people a year die in traffic deaths. Crazy.
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Old 10-10-18, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
I get a better car insurance rate for insuring my house with the same company, I also get a better rate for insuring a second car with the same company.

I get a discount on both cars because of their low annual mileage.

All of these reductions are NOT based on my driving skill; that reduction I get in addition because I never had a car collision claim.

I have made claims on comprehensive insurance for hail damage (totaled the car), stone and volleyball damaged windshields and deer strike fender damage, but that did not affect insurance rates in any way.
Right... cycling is not recognized as a superior activity in any way by US insurance companies... you are just getting bundled rates, I was just getting RV rates.

But according to the article in the OP, in the UK, at least one company has realized cyclists may be better drivers, and offers them a better rate, based on this.
The link between cycling and safer motoring was revealed by a UK insurance firm which offers specialist motor insurance policies for cyclists.
read it for yourself. https://www.forbes.com/sites/carlton.../#1b6d750a6f6c
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Old 10-10-18, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by genec View Post

But according to the article in the OP, in the UK, at least one company has realized cyclists may be better drivers, and offers them a better rate, based on this.

read it for yourself. https://www.forbes.com/sites/carlton.../#1b6d750a6f6c
I read it and read nothing that indicates that the rate discount is based on actuarial data and the rate discount may be a sales device by a boutique insurance company to help market their policies to cyclists.

Less claims without discussing costs of claims doesn't mean much. Just as likely bicyclists could be getting a discount because they are expected to drive fewer miles.
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Old 10-11-18, 05:36 AM
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Not sure if it makes me a better driver as I was already a pretty damn good one to begin with , but I am more aware of other cyclists on the road, and take extra care in passing them...and I also get particularly upset when I see other drivers pass cyclist closely.
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Old 10-11-18, 08:12 AM
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It makes sense, but I have seen some utter idiots on bicycles.
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Old 10-11-18, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
I read it and read nothing that indicates that the rate discount is based on actuarial data and the rate discount may be a sales device by a boutique insurance company to help market their policies to cyclists.

Less claims without discussing costs of claims doesn't mean much. Just as likely bicyclists could be getting a discount because they are expected to drive fewer miles.
Because of reduced risks, Chris Knott Insuranceís cyclist-driver policy offers lower premiums than policies aimed at the wider market.
But sure... maybe they just base on the fewer claims aspect...
13% of the firmís insured drivers make at least one claim per year, found Day, but this fell to 6% for cyclists who were insured on the firmís cyclist-driver policy.
Either way, they followed up on it, did a bit of lab testing, and decided to announce their findings... they could have just pocketed their savings as extra profit, and kept their mouths shut.
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Old 10-11-18, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by genec View Post
But sure... maybe they just base on the fewer claims aspect...


Either way, they followed up on it, did a bit of lab testing, and decided to announce their findings... they could have just pocketed their savings as extra profit, and kept their mouths shut.
"They" (i.e. the insurance company) did not do any testing, "they" read about a study published in a journal that focused on experiments, simulations and extrapolations, not any actuarial data or measurements of cyclists' real world motor vehicle driving/accident record.
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Old 10-11-18, 09:26 AM
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Right, the insurance company identified a difference in claim rates, and this corrolated with a study by a university...
Study author Vanessa Beanland of Australian National University noted that the “demands of cycling” appears to hone awareness skills.

In a lab setting Beanland and her associates found that cyclist-drivers responded to fresh information more quickly than motorists who did not cycle.
But no doubt none of this matters, because they didn't publish actuarial tables for you.

I suggest you contact them, tell them how wrong their little press release is, and how you, as an expert, are so offended by their utter lack of "proper data."
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Old 10-11-18, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by genec View Post
Right, the insurance company identified a difference in claim rates, and this corrolated with a study by a university...


But no doubt none of this matters, because they didn't publish actuarial tables for you.

I suggest you contact them, tell them how wrong their little press release is, and how you, as an expert, are so offended by their utter lack of "proper data."
Their press release is not wrong, just your fanciful interpretation about what "they" - (the insurance company) actually "studied" and/or determined was true about cyclists' record vis ŗ vis non-cyclists in regards motor vehicle accidents.

But, if you like your own story better keep on repeating it, maybe that will make it so.
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Old 10-11-18, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by genec View Post
Not a day... I think a semester, early in their education, should be devoted to cycling as transportation and encouraged.

Later, when they take drivers ed, that prior road use knowledge is then part of their over all road use education... I also feel that drivers need more than 40 hours training... and should be trained to understand the ethics of driving a car and what "share the road" really means.
^^This, and firearm safety / ethics might be nice as well.
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Old 10-11-18, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by JoeyBike View Post
^^This, and firearm safety / ethics might be nice as well.
Only if they choose to use firearms... although some ethics and history about the 2nd would be good... otherwise, like driving, one should be able to choose whether to take the more advanced classes that would lead to licencing.

Funny thing about that whole situation... We license drivers, and register cars, but do not bother to do the same with gun owners and firearms, in spite of the latter being designed to deliver "deadly force." Firearms are supposed to be registered, but there is no training/licensing required for those that use firearms. (of course the argument is "right to bear arms..." verses no "right to drive.")

We could go round and round on this... but it will end up in P&R vice A&S.

Back to the specific matter at hand... cyclists and their use of the road and "perhaps" greater awareness of overall traffic... no doubt due to some sort of survival need... unsuccessful cyclists tend to not cycle for long... ie, become motorists or "statistics."
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