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Why Do They Hate Us?

Old 10-31-18, 10:35 AM
  #26  
JoeyBike
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Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
Sometimes when I see threads like this I wonder what percent of the ~800 cyclists killed each year in collisions with motor vehicles, I sometimes wonder, what percent of them had a previous negative interaction with a car.
I would say 100%, unless they got hozed on their very first ride. The OP couldn't even get out of his neighborhood without incident. Unless they just ride on paths and trails. Then the wiley pedestrians/strollers/pets can cause trouble. I only ride 40 miles a week commuting and a normal week sees at least one opportunity to meet my maker, or at least sustain injuries.

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Old 10-31-18, 10:43 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by brianmcg123 View Post


Via law enforcement or through his insurance company. It's pretty common to use this information to determine fault in accidents. Is it not 2018 where you live?

Maybe if the o.p. had been killed. Maybe if the o.p. had been driving an asset worth six figures or more ... and had been killed as well. Under the circumstances. No. It would not be possible to subpoena 'black box' information. And this doesn't even take into account the fact that civilian GPS resolution on the ground is around 9 meters! Any halfway competent defense attorney could chew right through any argument that black box GPS data could precisely show where the car was vs where it should have been at a typical intersection. I slow for every intersection whether it has a stop sign or not. Many do not. Many are actually accelerating through intersections for which they do not have a stop sign against them. They assume (sometimes wrongly) that the cross-traffic with the stop sign will stop as directed. This is unwise in any vehicle but it can lead to a lot of pain and worse when you are as vulnerable to impact as a cyclist is. It really is time we took the gloves off and just said it: there really is no defensible reason to be clobbered in a residential neighborhood intersection. Treat every single intersection like a four way stop and you will be just fine.
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Old 10-31-18, 10:46 AM
  #28  
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Regardless of whose 'fault' it was, it is common decency to get out of your cage and see if someone is OK after running them down. I got doored, was lying on the ground, and the perps in the car not only didn't get out, they continued with their cel phone calls as if nothing had happened. Not much of a 'civil society' any more.
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Old 10-31-18, 10:58 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
Treat every single intersection like a four way stop and you will be just fine.
^^This. And assume the car is driven by a paid hitman who is after you.
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Old 10-31-18, 12:49 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
So why do we need the camera(s)?
1. To increase the sale of portable video cameras.

2. We (bicycle riders) "need" camera(s) to to help other bicyclists justify their purchase of video camera(s) when personal entertainment is not considered a good enough reason.
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Old 10-31-18, 12:59 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
Maybe if the o.p. had been killed. Maybe if the o.p. had been driving an asset worth six figures or more ... and had been killed as well. Under the circumstances. No. It would not be possible to subpoena 'black box' information. And this doesn't even take into account the fact that civilian GPS resolution on the ground is around 9 meters!
All true and relevant. Also given the circumstances described in the OP, it is irrelevant whether the motorist had come to a full stop or not, he was required by the stop sign to wait for any close in approaching vehicle (to include bicycles) to clear the intersection before entering it. GPS information, no matter how detailed and exact is irrelevant in determining fault or cause in this incident.
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Old 10-31-18, 03:01 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
... When something like the incident under discussion comes down, the reaction is purely objective. I sure hope the o.p. does not intend legal recourse because this thread would not help their case. Nor, I suspect, would a camera. I certainly could be wrong. I wasn't there. But nothing, not the reaction of neighbors, the amount of damage to the bike, the 'flying over the hood' ... none of it supports the o.p. claim that the car hit them and not the other way around. A camera is not needed to win a lawsuit that is supported by forensic evidence. If the driver had fled I might have to walk that back, but the driver stopped. So why do we need the camera(s)?
I really cannot believe this is even a question, "why do we need the camera".

An objective, independent, and incontrovertible third party account of a dispute - yeah, I'll take that all day long. Who stopped? Was there a dog on the driver's lap? Was the driver of the car using their phone? Check the video. Any claims whatsoever can be checked against the video. It could be a difference between shared fault and a partial judgement, and 100% fault and a full judgement for one side.

They're simple, they're inexpensive, and they work.
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Old 10-31-18, 03:32 PM
  #33  
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They hate you because you're in the way. Never mind if you're in a bike lane or on the side of a wide road, you're one more Bozo in the way. And if you're not in the way, well the last Bozo was and now here you are.
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Old 10-31-18, 06:29 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by bargeon View Post
They hate you because you're in the way. Never mind if you're in a bike lane or on the side of a wide road, you're one more Bozo in the way. And if you're not in the way, well the last Bozo was and now here you are.
+1. Same as I said, different words, just as true. THEY (cyclists) are a PITA, always in the way, breaking the law, slowing me down. YOU (the OP) are a subset of THEM. Motorists hated you (them) before you were born.
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Old 10-31-18, 09:22 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by ridelikeaturtle View Post
I really cannot believe this is even a question, "why do we need the camera".

An objective, independent, and incontrovertible third party account of a dispute - yeah, I'll take that all day long. Who stopped? Was there a dog on the driver's lap? Was the driver of the car using their phone? Check the video. Any claims whatsoever can be checked against the video. It could be a difference between shared fault and a partial judgement, and 100% fault and a full judgement for one side.

They're simple, they're inexpensive, and they work.
Right, just like another poster's previous claims about portable video camera magical powers to provide bicyclists' "the cheapest insurance policy you'll ever buy" and a "turning the tide" of law enforcement treatment of cyclists, these hyped up claims of fantastic results sound as if some posters have overdosed on the Koolaid of "brilliant marketing" hype.
See Why Do They Hate Us?

Bottom line for this thread, hypothetical cyclists video camera results, no matter how allegedly superb, would have not prevented the collision nor provided useful "incident protection"/"insurance" given the circumstances described in the OP. And no amount of hype or salesmanship will change that reality.

Last edited by I-Like-To-Bike; 10-31-18 at 09:25 PM.
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Old 10-31-18, 09:36 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
...cyclists video camera results, no matter how allegedly superb, would have not prevented the collision nor provided useful "incident protection"/"insurance" given the circumstances described in the OP.
But you underestimate the Magical Powers of video cameras!!

I have been told several times by friends and acquaintances that "Alas...my bike has been stolen...AGAIN!" "It was parked right under a video camera!!" So not only did their bike get stolen but they were able to suffer the pain of SEEING the thief ride off on it. Do the cops care? Not one bit. Why didn't my friend use a better lock? "It was right under a video camera!". As if that somehow, magically, protected their bike. Unless someone points a firearm straight at the camera you are wearing the, local cops don't care. They would have just told the guy it's all part of cycling in the street. See ya.
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Old 10-31-18, 09:42 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by JoeyBike View Post
But you underestimate the Magical Powers of video cameras!!
Must be because of an allegedly "antagonistic" reaction to silly and/or hyperbolic claims produced by wishful thinking prompted by "brilliant marketing."
True believers in the magical insurance/protective powers of bicyclists' video cameras are free to ignore reality.
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Old 11-01-18, 06:30 AM
  #38  
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Not following the camera angle

I dont understand the camera comments. I wasnt wearing one so it's moot in my case. But are people saying they would hate us less if we wore cameras? I would think its the other way around.

Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
Must be because of an allegedly "antagonistic" reaction to silly and/or hyperbolic claims produced by wishful thinking prompted by "brilliant marketing."
True believers in the magical insurance/protective powers of bicyclists' video cameras are free to ignore reality.
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Old 11-01-18, 07:10 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by raria View Post
I dont understand the camera comments..I wasnt wearing one so it's moot in my case. But are people saying they would hate us less if we wore cameras? I would think its the other way around.
The reason for the comments is likely salesmanship and/or zealous techie fan boys/touting their favorite toys by citing hyped up theories of "insurance"

It wouldn't have made any difference if you had wore one, video cameras do not have the ability (despite what their promoters believe) to prevent cars drivers from making errors in judgement at stop signs.

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Old 11-01-18, 07:25 AM
  #40  
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I think there is a little bit of truth to both sides. I think most people are closer to the middle than the extremes but in cases like this, adrenaline is flowing and emotions are mostly reactory without much thought.

Recently I have been priveledged with 1st hand information of what actually goes through the mind of drivers as they approach cyclist on the road.

About 2 weeks ago my wife and I were out on a ride, headed through our little downtown area back home. On the main road which we were riding (20mph speed limit) there is a large 6' paved parking/bike lane which we were riding in at about 15mph. There may have been 1 car parked in the 1/2 mile stretch of roads.

Unbeknownst to us, our daughter (13) was being driven home by friends of the family with which she stayed the night. She informed us that the dad (whom knows us and we are friends with) upon seeing us on the road as cyclists (had no idea it was my wife and I) started complaining about cyclist on the road and slowing down all the traffic... etc. At that point my daughter spoke up and told him who it was. She said that his wife laid into him about talking like that and keeping his mouth shut.

Anyways theres some insight from the mind of a typical American driver.

At my age with 4 kids still at home, I tend to ride very conservative these days. Long gone are the sprints from light to light in city traffic drafting off the car in front of you. I no longer assume right of way, to the point of going around the back of a car at a stop if they havent made eye contact with me.

It never hurts to wave and say thank you for cars that stop or wait to let you pass. A little bit of gratefulness goes a long way.

As far as the OPs experience, it sounds like typical American Suburbia. Everyones looking out for themselves and no one is sharing. If you have seen the inside of the house of more than 5 people on your street/apartment building your doing a great job of building community. Without that community you are on your own.

-Sean
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Old 11-01-18, 09:06 AM
  #41  
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ILTB.. stop. Just stop. Please. Let's not argue what works for some people even though it may not work for you.

Where I am, it holds up in court. And it may for others too. I'm talking both the cameras and the black box.
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Please dont outsmart the censor. That is a very expensive censor and every time one of you guys outsmart it it makes someone at the home office feel bad. We dont wanna do that. So dont cleverly disguise bad words.
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Old 11-01-18, 11:42 AM
  #42  
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The thing I love about these threads is that it always gets me thinking as I ride home.

Why do they hate us? I had a thought last night that a lot of it is just bullying. Why do kids like to yell out the window to try and scare me as they ride past (trust me kid, that's not gonna do it)? Because we're weaker, and their parents enable it. We are perceived as powerless and are therefore an easy target. That's one easy explanation. As G'Kar said on Babylon 5,

Why does any advanced civilization seek to destroy less advanced one? Because the land is strategically valuable, because there are resources that can be cultivated and exploited, but most of all, simply because they can.
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Old 11-01-18, 11:54 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by ridelikeaturtle View Post
What the fxck kind of response is this? Jesus.
Attack the person when you're incapable of attacking the content.
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Old 11-01-18, 11:56 AM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by Chinghis View Post
The thing I love about these threads is that it always gets me thinking as I ride home.

Why do they hate us? I had a thought last night that a lot of it is just bullying. Why do kids like to yell out the window to try and scare me as they ride past (trust me kid, that's not gonna do it)? Because we're weaker, and their parents enable it. We are perceived as powerless and are therefore an easy target. That's one easy explanation. As G'Kar said on Babylon 5,
I never EVER cycle past a school bus with occupants and open windows.
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Old 11-01-18, 12:02 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by brianmcg123 View Post


Via law enforcement or through his insurance company. It's pretty common to use this information to determine fault in accidents. Is it not 2018 where you live?
This is all entirely possible, but logistically it's not that easy. The police have to subpoena all that stuff, which adds another layer of red tape as well as time. You CAN subpoena the security camera footage of a business that happened to overlook an incident, for example, but many establishments don't save more than a few days' worth before writing over it.
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Old 11-01-18, 11:36 PM
  #46  
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They hate you for thinking they hate you?

No, because they're like 12 and it's fun.

Did I waste all of that time listening to Philosophy Talk?
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Old 11-03-18, 08:00 AM
  #47  
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Cameras are great for figuring out what happened AFTER.


I watch ALL my footage, video is a useful tool for analyzing past situations, and making corrections, if needed.


In my experience, I usually could have done something to avoid most of the close calls I've had. (video has confirmed this a few times)


Nothing will protect you against a driver that doesn't see you. (or care about you)


Sometimes you see them first, and have enough time to take evasive action, this probably wasn't the case for the OP.
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Old 11-03-18, 05:01 PM
  #48  
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OP, It is a car-centric society.


Now that I got the stupid part of my answer, out of the way.


Your situation shows'. How much your neighbors' don't care about cyclists'. If you had been the child, who came to see if you were alright. But had been in the exact same circumstances. I am sure your neighbors would have reacted differently. If it was the little girl that had been hit, they would have come out of their homes, probably throwing punches at the driver.
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Old 11-04-18, 11:24 AM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by Chris0516 View Post
If it was the little girl that had been hit, they would have come out of their homes, probably throwing punches at the driver.
Yeah. But an adult male eating $h!7 on a bike they all ran in to collect the images on their security cameras and post that on YouTube immediately so that the rest of the bike-haters can post stoopid comments under it and LOL.
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Old 11-04-18, 01:39 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
How can the OP "get his black box info pulled and possibly GPS from his phone"? Any suggestions that aren't preposterous?
You probably can't, but when you sue the SOB you bring it up in court. If the data absolves them, they'd have handed it over. If it shows their guilt, well then, we rest our case ladies and gentlemen of the jury...or you paint this story in a meeting with the a-hole and their lawyers earlier in a meeting and explain that a new CAAD12 is one hell of a f-load cheaper than fighting this.
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