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Crazy Pedestrian this morning

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Crazy Pedestrian this morning

Old 10-31-18, 02:09 PM
  #26  
adablduya
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Originally Posted by JoeyBike View Post
It IS their responsibility to PAY ATTENTION. It is also RUDE to spread out across the entire path, both lanes, as if you are the only person on Earth. "Making way" is another way of saying "don't HOG the path". Why do I have to yell at idiots and inconsiderate people all day on a quiet, relaxing bike path though the woods? Heel the kids and the dogs too while you're at it. Look back before you make some boneheaded U-turn at random. It's not that difficult to be considerate and aware.

I do use a bell, but them listening to music negates the bell usually.
nice try. the post before yours is correct: if you are approaching from behind, YOU have the duty to pass safely and courteously. pretty much nothing else to it. so what if they are in the middle of the path, or with dogs on 20' leashes. yeah, those might be annoying to you, the passing cyclist, but so what ? it's still YOUR responsibility to pass safely.
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Old 10-31-18, 02:33 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by adablduya View Post
...it's still YOUR responsibility to pass safely.
100% agree! Yay! I have never run into anyone/thing on a bike path. I have been bitten by a dog on a leash that went out of his way to do so and even pulled me down to the ground, but I have not hit anyone, ever. So, I must be doing it right. It is MY responsibility to not hit anyone. Mission accomplished. It is unwise to go through life not paying attention to one's surroundings. Sooner or later, someone not as skilled/careful as I am will smack them or startle them. And I won't feel sorry for them. Hope that's OK.
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Old 10-31-18, 02:35 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
Great, so either just ride there or get over yourself and call your passes on populated paths without hostility like a considerate human should.
I ring my bell, which is all that is legally required. If I have to verbalize, it will be peppered with profanity. 99% of trail users have ear buds so it's a mute point anyway.
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Old 10-31-18, 02:49 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by JoeyBike View Post
I ring my bell, which is all that is legally required. If I have to verbalize, it will be peppered with profanity. 99% of trail users have ear buds so it's a mute point anyway.
Great, keep ringing your bell. Just don't expect anyone to buy into your resentment of having to do it. Yours was a very weird rant.

I've been on a lot of paths all over the place, and I've yet to be on one where anywhere near half of users are wearing ear buds. I pass almost everybody, so the one's that are wearing them stick out like a sore thumb. It's the ones on bikes that have caused me problems.
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Old 10-31-18, 02:51 PM
  #30  
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You are claiming you choose to be mute because it’s moot since they are only meat pylons anyway.

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Old 10-31-18, 02:53 PM
  #31  
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I’m so used to being wrong when arguing with a women.
Now that I can’t hear well, but regardless if I’m right or wrong
I tell my wife
”Sorry, you’re right, I’m wrong “ & just move on .
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Old 10-31-18, 03:37 PM
  #32  
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Some people are more easily to get a scare than others. Often they are mature women 50-70, some of them also tend to make it a big deal (men seem to be more forgiving); so I ride ultra carefully and slow when passing them. The other day I was making a turn at an intersection where a couple in their 60-70s were waiting for the light to cross. They were on the curb and I was on the road quite a distance from them, but I heard the woman uttering "Jesus Christ!" after I passed. I think just because she didn't see me earlier.

If it's at night, as I've said before, a bright headlight is much more effective in alerting pedestrians than a bell. If they are looking at cell phones (most often), their peripheral vision tells them there seems to be a Car coming from behind so they jump to the side immediately.
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Old 10-31-18, 05:46 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by vol View Post
Some people are more easily to get a scare than others.
No joke. I was skating on a path in the local park. Divided right down the middle with a white stripe. Bikes on one side, peds on the other (as marked). There are two dudes at least in their 40s walking abreast. One dead center in the ped lane, the other dead center in the bike lane, chatting with each other. So I split between them. Heard one guy say: "I hate when they do that!". Funny thing is, THEY are in full control of that problem! Walk on the ped side, problem solved BY THEM. They have ALL the power to change the situation for the better.

Some people are just un-insightful idiots. Not really my job to correct them or coddle them. Any coaching on my part would only lead to histrionics and raised voices. I don't care if they get "startled". That's on them. Pay attention, be polite, be aware that you aren't alone on this planet, and you won't be startled. My duty is to not hit them. Nothing else.

Last edited by JoeyBike; 10-31-18 at 05:49 PM.
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Old 10-31-18, 07:36 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by dabac View Post

If I were to pass every voluntarily sensory deprived and/or zoned out pedestrian outside the range of any possible scare zone, I might as well give up commuting. Roads simply arenít wide enough. And hovering outside the scare zone until noticed would play merry hell with average speed.
Yes, I accept, even embrace my responsibility to be a considerate road user and fellow citizen, but there is a limit to how far the responsibility balance between different road users can be biased.
Road users are one thing. Sidewalk users operate under a different set of conventions. Bicycles are uninvited interlopers and have no standing in the social order.
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Old 10-31-18, 09:24 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by jon c. View Post
Road users are one thing. Sidewalk users operate under a different set of conventions. Bicycles are uninvited interlopers and have no standing in the social order.
I live in a city where it is not uncommon to see a cyclist on a sidewalk. Therefore, because I am aware, I never step out of a doorway onto a sidewalk without looking both ways. Could be any number of things rolling toward me - UPS driver pushing a dolly, beerman transporting a keg, someone shooting at someone else, skateboarder, motorized wheelchair, etc. And of course most people go through life living in a fog, unaware of anything around them getting startled all the time. Or run over. Or mugged. All we can control is US. We have no control over THEM. Therefore, we must look out for THEM. Or get startled or worse.

I believe the woman in the OP was on drugs or mentally ill. I have witnessed that type of overreaction personally. It is not normal.

Last edited by JoeyBike; 10-31-18 at 09:28 PM.
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Old 11-01-18, 12:51 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by JoeyBike View Post
I had a steroided-out jogger dude track me down a couple of years ago and threaten me with bodily harm for passing him on a bike path without calling out. It's a long story but very similar to yours. I didn't touch him or come close to touching him. He had a point about calling out of course, but you know what happens - they jump right in front of your wheel half the time. And if you NEED passing traffic to call out, this is an admission of guilt that YOU are likely to do something stupid. Do I honk my horn every time I pass a car while driving a motor vehicle? No. I expect people to look in a mirror or over their shoulder before changing lanes. Same with peds. I don't feel like yelling at people all day long. BUT...he did have a valid point only to go WAAAAAY overboard to make it.
In other news, a passing notification is the law. So he had more than just a valid point.
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Old 11-01-18, 07:55 AM
  #37  
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We've all been there and done that. I've had people I've called out to "ON YOUR LEFT" and they immediately jump into my way to their left. Some pedestrians will even seem to make eye contact with and they still walk into your path or pull some other crap. People are gonna do it. A majority of pedestrians are alright, some are d**ks and are gonna pull stuff, and other's are just lost in their own little world, either engrossed in a phone, headphones or just their own mind and you shock them as you pass.

As other's have said, slow down, use the bell AND your voice, If you see no indication of them knowing your presence then slow down MORE and swing wider. I've also found that yelling 'HEADS UP', then yelling "ON YOUR LEFT" seems to have better success than just a bell or "ON YOUR LEFT" alone.

I look at it this way. I'm not gonna let a pedestrian ruin MY ride or try and screw up MY life. And I take precaution to make it NOT happen. I've sometimes stopped dead, rode in the grass and taken another route to bypass pedestrians. Don't let anyone ruin YOUR ride if you can help it.
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Old 11-01-18, 08:53 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by trailangel View Post
Good answer. OP hasn't said how fast he was going. Need to slow down on these ped passings... almost to walking speed.
I was probably going around 8 - 10 mph.
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Old 11-01-18, 08:57 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by Rootman View Post
We've all been there and done that. I've had people I've called out to "ON YOUR LEFT" and they immediately jump into my way to their left. Some pedestrians will even seem to make eye contact with and they still walk into your path or pull some other crap. People are gonna do it. A majority of pedestrians are alright, some are d**ks and are gonna pull stuff, and other's are just lost in their own little world, either engrossed in a phone, headphones or just their own mind and you shock them as you pass.

As other's have said, slow down, use the bell AND your voice, If you see no indication of them knowing your presence then slow down MORE and swing wider. I've also found that yelling 'HEADS UP', then yelling "ON YOUR LEFT" seems to have better success than just a bell or "ON YOUR LEFT" alone.

I look at it this way. I'm not gonna let a pedestrian ruin MY ride or try and screw up MY life. And I take precaution to make it NOT happen. I've sometimes stopped dead, rode in the grass and taken another route to bypass pedestrians. Don't let anyone ruin YOUR ride if you can help it.
The problem with that is I used my bell. (two rings). She said something like "you expect me to hear that"? I'm generally not good for argument on the fly, but if more time were given my comeback would be something like, "you have ears and awareness right".

Now we are going not only using a bell but also yelling. What's the next step. (1) Your Bell (2) Voice (3) Launch a boat flare **********
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Old 11-01-18, 09:01 AM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by Aubergine View Post
Just a point to consider. Not everyone can hear. Donít expect people to hear bells, shouts, etc if you come up behind them. It is YOUR responsibility as a rider to pass people courteously and safely. It is not their responsibility to make way.

Thank you for this thoughtful and considerate response. As a cyclist and a pedestrian, I appreciate it.
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Old 11-01-18, 09:01 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by Aubergine View Post
Just a point to consider. Not everyone can hear. Donít expect people to hear bells, shouts, etc if you come up behind them. It is YOUR responsibility as a rider to pass people courteously and safely. It is not their responsibility to make way.
Agree,

This is a situation about passing people, not a situation about me HITTING someone with my bicycle.
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Old 11-01-18, 09:04 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
Am I the only person who would much rather have a human voice call out than a bell ring? I hate bells--they vary so much in volume that they're really difficult to locate behind you, and they really don't tell you what the rider is doing.

I use a fairly loud "passing on your left". Completely nonambiguous, very easy to say. Just saying "left" confuses people who don't know the drill.
I have a Schwinn "tool-less" walmart bell and it gets everyone's attention 99% of the time. This woman hapepend to be the 1%. Along with those with their heads down in their phone with headphones on.
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Old 11-01-18, 09:09 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by steppinthrax View Post
The problem with that is I used my bell. (two rings). She said something like "you expect me to hear that"? I'm generally not good for argument on the fly, but if more time were given my comeback would be something like, "you have ears and awareness right".

Now we are going not only using a bell but also yelling. What's the next step. (1) Your Bell (2) Voice (3) Launch a boat flare **********
People are gonna be people, I think a bell ought to be enough, evidently with the amount of people I pass who are oblivious to it I guess it's not. People also get confused by 'ON YOUR LEFT', so I added a heads up. I'm just gonna take these extra steps because I am more interested in having a good ride than being righteous and 'in the right' about passing people. It's gonna be an issue even with multiple warning, people are like that.

I've even had people mad that I scared them. Knocked them out of there daze and brought them to reality that they are going to be passed. So let them, I am in to the ride, not the fight. Do whatever it takes and ride on. Some people are just idiots and no amount of arguing is going to convince them they are wrong.
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Old 11-01-18, 09:10 AM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by JoeyBike View Post
Kids on foot are a bigger problem that kids on training bikes actually. The other thing I enjoy on segregated paths are the people who walk on the wheels side, and the other folks who have their kid on training wheels going 1mph on the wheeled side because they are on a bike, while the parents/guardians block the walk side. But I fully realize that stepping into the public domain will certainly expose me to human stupidity, inconsideration, and mindlessness. And stepping into the public domain also exposes them to angry old men/women who just want a peaceful ride on the path without yelling at every nincompoop rube who crawls up out of an open landfill and onto the bike path.
Is it a bike path or a multi-use path? It seems to me that some cyclists want to impose road rules (keep to the right, pass on the left, donít stop on the path) to multi-use recreational trails. Just as you as a cyclist donít want to be intimidated and put at risk for harm by inconsiderate drivers, walkers want to be able to enjoy the outdoors at their own pace without being scared or put at risk by cyclists using the same paths.

The OP could have just said, Iím sorry. I didnít mean to startle you. It didnít have to escalate into a swearing match.
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Old 11-01-18, 09:11 AM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by bogydave View Post
Iím so used to being wrong when arguing with a women.
Now that I canít hear well, but regardless if Iím right or wrong
I tell my wife
ĒSorry, youíre right, Iím wrong ď & just move on .
Let's put it this way, this was the type of woman who feel she only has RIGHTS no RESPONSIBILITIES.

If my bicycle had brushed against her, I'd be dealing with a lawsuit that my children's children will still be defending. While she sits in the courtroom arguing about mansplaining.
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Old 11-01-18, 09:32 AM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by steppinthrax View Post
I have a Schwinn "tool-less" walmart bell and it gets everyone's attention 99% of the time. This woman hapepend to be the 1%. Along with those with their heads down in their phone with headphones on.

My comment wasn't specifically directed at your bell and its usage. It's just that I read a lot of people who use a bell because they think it's less confusing than announcing your pass, and I just think that's implausible for a couple of reasons. The first is obvious--a bell conveys no information other than a noise, words can actually explain what you're doing. People complain that pedestrians are confused by "on your left". If that's so, just choose better words. I've never had anyone get confused by "passing on your left".

The second reason is my subjective sense that it's more difficult to judge the location of a bell ring than a human voice. Bells just vary too much in volume for me to know how far back the bell ringer is. A lot of times, it's somebody way behind me with a very loud bell who is never going to get anywhere near passing me. Voices just don't carry that kind of distance unless someone is really screaming, and I've yet to encounter that on a bike path. So, basically, I don't like bells because they are, as often as not, a false alarm for me, and being human, I tend to disregard unreliable warnings.
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Old 11-01-18, 09:34 AM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by steppinthrax View Post
Let's put it this way, this was the type of woman who feel she only has RIGHTS no RESPONSIBILITIES.

If my bicycle had brushed against her, I'd be dealing with a lawsuit that my children's children will still be defending. While she sits in the courtroom arguing about mansplaining.

Gotta say, the fact that you would choose to go THERE in this thread makes me think maybe you were looking for a confrontation.
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Old 11-01-18, 09:41 AM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
My comment wasn't specifically directed at your bell and its usage. It's just that I read a lot of people who use a bell because they think it's less confusing than announcing your pass, and I just think that's implausible for a couple of reasons. The first is obvious--a bell conveys no information other than a noise, words can actually explain what you're doing. People complain that pedestrians are confused by "on your left". If that's so, just choose better words. I've never had anyone get confused by "passing on your left".

The second reason is my subjective sense that it's more difficult to judge the location of a bell ring than a human voice. Bells just vary too much in volume for me to know how far back the bell ringer is. A lot of times, it's somebody way behind me with a very loud bell who is never going to get anywhere near passing me. Voices just don't carry that kind of distance unless someone is really screaming, and I've yet to encounter that on a bike path. So, basically, I don't like bells because they are, as often as not, a false alarm for me, and being human, I tend to disregard unreliable warnings.
When I'm coming from behind and use my bell. I often see people "perk up" and turn their head behind them, noticing a bicycle coming.
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Old 11-01-18, 09:41 AM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by KraneXL View Post
In other news, a passing notification is the law. So he had more than just a valid point.
Not in Louisiana. You must have a bell or similar by law. There is no law that requires the actual use of it, not even guidelines for use. Absolutely no law requiring screaming at people either. Bells and horn usage on bikes and cars are up to the users discretion, not mandatory for every little thing.

(b) No person shall operate a bicycle unless it is equipped with a bell or other device capable of giving a signal audible for a distance of at least 100 feet, except that a bicycle shall not be equipped with nor shall any person use upon a bicycle any siren or whistle. Source

Louisiana does not have a statute that specifically authorizes or prohibits the operation of a bicycle upon a sidewalk. Source
==============================

Now with that out of the way, let's examine why a "mandatory warning" law would be stoopid:

Why is there no law requiring motor vehicles to tap their horns every time they pass a cyclist? As a cyclist, would you want to HEAR that all day long? Might it actually startle you more than just the car passing? Would you interpret that as hostile? Would you have ANY CLUE why those cars were honking at you? Of course not. Because there is some EXPECTATION that you, a road user, is going to act in a predictable manner. It is EXPECTED. And if you decide to alter your course, it is ON YOU to look around and stay safe. If you hook a U-turn right in front of a moving car, not the driver of the cars fault. It is 100% on the cyclist to use a mirror, not plug up your ears, and to be aware of passing cars. If you are startled by passing cars, you are doing something very wrong. If you are OFFENDED by passing cars NOT honking, get a mirror and use it.

OK, lets move onto the path, sidewalks issue:

In my community, almost no one calls out. Also, most people have earbuds playing. So if I call out, it better be LOUD, and CLOSE. So here are the problems with alerting trail users:

1. Most walkers/cyclists (casual cyclists) on paths understand a bell. They do not understand being yelled at. In fact, yelling at people here will often insight hostility. So I am not in the habit of yelling at strangers that I am about to approach closely. Good way to get punched in the throat.

2. Should I decide to yell at them because they have earbuds, I will have to be CLOSE, and LOUD. See #1 above. Not a great idea. At the very least, this will startle them worse than just slipping past them. Very rude IMO.

3. Groups of people on the path chatting will not hear a bell or a call out. Unless I am CLOSE. Then the group will scatter all over the path like a covey of quail creating confusion and possible danger to all of us. Last year I called out to a group of 6 elderly women blocking the path which caused one of them to step off the edge of the concrete and fall. It was classic "covey of quail" reaction. She got pretty banged up. I started by ringing my bell which was completely ignored. So I yelled PASSING from about 30 feet back while riding at walking speed behind them. Everyone bumped into each other, then scattered in 3-stooges fashion. Would have been hilarious without the injury.

4. If there was a law requiring me to call out or ring a bell, then there should also be a law FORBIDDING the use of ear buds. This is just common sense. Why worry about someone's safety, requiring the entire world to alter their behavior for them, when they are legally allowed to block the chance of hearing the warning? Makes zero sense.

So there is good reason to NOT have laws that require a call-out. It is user discretion in Louisiana, and I agree. If a cyclist is riding erratically looking at their phone, a tap on the car horn is appropriate. Otherwise, nobody wants to hear all that noise. While passing on a sidewalk or fitness path, I just slide by slowly unless the person is obviously goofy. Quite often the persons wearing ear buds jump out of their shoes anyway. Not my problem. So long as I pass just north of walking speed, I don't really see a safety issue ON MY END.

There was a time in human history when the unaware person got eaten by something, which naturally selected for a population of vigilant, alert persons. This is no longer the case. I just want to get where I am going without hurting myself or someone else. Yelling or dinging a bell is often counterproductive to that end. Thankfully, I am not legally required to do so.

Last edited by JoeyBike; 11-01-18 at 01:04 PM.
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Old 11-01-18, 09:43 AM
  #50  
steppinthrax
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
Gotta say, the fact that you would choose to go THERE in this thread makes me think maybe you were looking for a confrontation.
No,

If she had not confronted me there would be no confrontation nor would this thread exists.

It was because she went on about how "You expect me to hear that". You see the RIGHTS and no RESPONSIBILITIES.
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