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Horrible Crash Into Cycling Group Broward County

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Horrible Crash Into Cycling Group Broward County

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Old 12-03-18, 12:31 PM
  #201  
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Originally Posted by Paul Barnard View Post
https://miami.cbslocal.com/2018/11/2...-car-in-davie/

This makes me completely sick to my stomach. The driver should never be allowed behind the wheel again. She's also a liar.
Simply awful, and similar to this, where the driver was 91 years old!!! https://www.wfla.com/news/sarasota-c...ent/1579632469

And they will get away with a slap on the wrist by the legal system, if anything at all.
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Old 12-03-18, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Artmo View Post
Simply awful, and similar to this, where the driver was 91 years old!!! https://www.wfla.com/news/sarasota-c...ent/1579632469
"Many cyclists are scared to use that street."

"They could be going 50, 60 mph, and you're within three feet of those automobiles, it becomes concerning,”



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Old 12-03-18, 02:42 PM
  #203  
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Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
But as for that'Live like ti is your last daya" crap ... really,. You would spend one of the last minutes of your life arguing with Me on a website?
.
you think ima let you have the last say in this!
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Old 12-04-18, 04:36 AM
  #204  
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The second victim succumbed on Nov. 27, so it has been just one week … the Prosecutor’s Office would need to consider this outcome in determining charges.

Also, the DA probably has a small staff and a large work load, and no real reason to hurry.

But … in the internet age, physical proximity means nothing in terms of research ability. Anyone can follow developments by either periodically searching or setting up some kind of news alert (I know it is possible but I don’t know how.)


Nov. 26---https://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/broward/davie/fl-ne-car-hits-pack-of-bicyclists-20181125-story.html

Nov. 27—https://wtop.com/national/2018/11/fl...ts-hit-by-car/

Dec. 02—https://www.local10.com/news/florida...illed-in-crash
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Old 12-04-18, 05:27 AM
  #205  
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Its comforting to see the south Florida cycling community getting out in recognition of this tragedy and to show their support for safer roads for cyclist. Its something that has been ignored for far too long and the entire state needs to be made aware of that.
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Old 12-06-18, 09:57 AM
  #206  
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Yesterday I had the misfortune of having to drive a car in the late afternoon across a 24-mile long bridge heading SSW at 65mph limit.

LINK to Google Earth view of the road.

This gave me half an hour to contemplate the issues motorists face looking more-or-less into a low, bright sun. I am in NO WAY absolving the OP motorist in this post. This is an observation to let cyclists know the challenges motorists face while driving into, or nearly into a bright sun.

The main thing I found is that I drove with BOTH sun visors down because the sun was hitting my eyes from where the passenger sun visor would block it. I had polarized sunglasses on. There was still a large sun streak/glare pattern across my side as the windscreen was a bit dirty and the wipers/squirters didn't help with that much. I would have no problem seeing a stopped car in front of me EXCEPT that the lowered sun visors obscured my vision of the horizon and quite a bit of road toward the horizon. In fact, if I sat up straight with the sun visor all the way down, I couldn't see ANY road at all. In order to keep the sun out of my eyes I had to set the visor so I could see about 2 inches above the hood, which was about 10 car lengths ahead. I would duck down a bit every 15 seconds or so to get a view far up the road for any hazards, along with a heaping eyefull of sun.

My conclusion is that a motorist with their sun visor pulled down would not be "getting the big picture" as they teach in driver's ed. And it wouldn't take too much distraction inside the car, or plain zoning out, to travel the amount of visible roadway between the visor and the dash/hood. (I had no fear of cyclists in the road because they are not allowed on the bridge, but there could always be a break-down ahead). It is certainly plausible that the woman driving the OP car had the visor down blocking the view of the road far ahead, got distracted for two seconds, then cyclists were all over here hood and roof.

Next time you are cycling into the rising/setting sun, you may want to give this some though. All motorists are human and this scenario greatly enhances the chance for human error. By the time they see you, you could be in the car with them. It's not the SUN directly, it's the visor. You can't see through those things. Someone "stopped" in the road ahead would not have but split seconds to impact.

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Old 12-06-18, 10:14 AM
  #207  
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I'm not sure I see your point here Joey? The sun is the sun and its the same sun for everybody -- cyclist and motorist alike.
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Old 12-06-18, 11:00 AM
  #208  
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Originally Posted by KraneXL View Post
I'm not sure I see your point here Joey? The sun is the sun and its the same sun for everybody -- cyclist and motorist alike.
My bike does not have sun visors. I believe the sun visor in the car, pulled down, blocks a large percentage of the road ahead. A car traveling at high speed covers a lot of ground and the visor give the driver less time to react to something in the road ahead that is basically STOPPED, like a cyclist. The sun only CAUSES the visor to be deployed. I think I explained it enough. I can't expect every Internet user to understand plain English.
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Old 12-06-18, 11:18 AM
  #209  
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Lets try that again. If the sun is in her eyes in a car, isn't it in everybody else eyes too? Second, if you suggest she can't see because she's being blinded, why is she still driving? Third, if the sun were in my eyes I'd make more of an effort to slow down and look out for people/things/etc. Do you see where I'm going with this?
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Old 12-06-18, 12:03 PM
  #210  
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Originally Posted by KraneXL View Post
Lets try that again. If the sun is in her eyes in a car, isn't it in everybody else eyes too? Second, if you suggest she can't see because she's being blinded, why is she still driving? Third, if the sun were in my eyes I'd make more of an effort to slow down and look out for people/things/etc. Do you see where I'm going with this?
It would be foolish to base your bicycling decisions on an assumption that the transportation world will come to a halt every time the sun rises or sets. Perhaps the timetable for your lifestyle is more flexible than than of most other people.
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Old 12-06-18, 12:04 PM
  #211  
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Originally Posted by KraneXL View Post
Lets try that again. If the sun is in her eyes in a car, isn't it in everybody else eyes too? Second, if you suggest she can't see because she's being blinded, why is she still driving? Third, if the sun were in my eyes I'd make more of an effort to slow down and look out for people/things/etc. Do you see where I'm going with this?
I am not sure what world you live in, but I live in the real world where people don't do what they are supposed to do, like pull the car over for an hour until the sun goes down or until it clouds up. However, on a LEISURE ride, where I can go wherever I want to whenever I want to, I tend to avoid situations were the motorists coming up behind me are at a greater disadvantage than all of their normal BS behind the wheel. With the sun visor pulled down a motorist can not see very far up the road, and what they can see is full of glare. IF they are even looking through the windshield and being an A+ driver otherwise.

If you can't understand the concept of a sun visor limiting the view of the road up ahead, I can't help you. If you DO understand it, I can't make you change your cycling habits because of this "revelation".

As I stated before, when I am on long distance bike tours heading East, I wait until mid morning to set out so the sun is up a bit. When touring and heading West, I get the earliest start possible and call it quits before the sun gets low in the evening. It's really pretty simple to alter my behavior due to predictable weather/solar events that put motorists at further disadvantage for seeing me. You should certainly do whatever you want to. It's your skin.
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Old 12-06-18, 12:05 PM
  #212  
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
It would be foolish to base your bicycling decisions on an assumption that the transportation world will come to a halt every time the sun rises or sets. Perhaps the timetable for your lifestyle is more flexible than than of most other people.
And ^^This. Happy trails!


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Old 12-06-18, 12:21 PM
  #213  
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
It would be foolish to base your bicycling decisions on an assumption that the transportation world will come to a halt every time the sun rises or sets. Perhaps the timetable for your lifestyle is more flexible than than of most other people.
On the other hand, I doubt if the sun is going anywhere. And people have been riding bikes in traffic -- at all hours -- for a very long time. I doubt any of that is going to change anytime soon as well.

And now if you don't mind, I think I'll exist this discuss before I slip any further into the bizarro world.
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Old 12-06-18, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by KraneXL View Post
Lets try that again. If the sun is in her eyes in a car, isn't it in everybody else eyes too? Second, if you suggest she can't see because she's being blinded, why is she still driving? Third, if the sun were in my eyes I'd make more of an effort to slow down and look out for people/things/etc. Do you see where I'm going with this?
Those are all good and decent questions...

The answers however tend to be quite bizzaro... I know folks that run into such glare and instantly step harder on the gas... just how does that make sense? The sane thing to do is drive as if there is a roadblock right around each blind corner... but we know people do not drive like that... which is why there are so many rear end collisions... folks just drive as if the road is always free and clear.... which it usually is... but damn, that is a terrible habit.

I know many folks drive as if the speed limit is a goal that must be maintained at all times... regardless of rain, visibility or road conditions. Makes no sense, but for them... 90% of the time, that is the case... so why change. And that my friend is why it seems as if motorists "own the road." They don't own it, they just act that way... and the result is... some 40,000 road deaths a year... 'cause folks are just "driving along."
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Old 12-06-18, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by genec View Post
I know many folks drive as if the speed limit is a goal that must be maintained at all times...
Or, that is the minimum speed that must never be surrendered to.

I remember a cop posted a comment on one of those DJ bike hate commentaries a couple of years ago. He said he hated cyclists because "They can't even do the speed limit!"

Speeding, blinded, and distracted. The next car to pass me is likely 2 of the 3 at least. Not going out of my way for the Hat Trick, the Terrible Trifecta, or The Holy Trinity.
.
.
.

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Old 12-06-18, 04:11 PM
  #216  
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Originally Posted by JoeyBike View Post
Yesterday I had the misfortune of having to drive a car in the late afternoon across a 24-mile long bridge heading SSW at 65mph limit.

LINK to Google Earth view of the road.

This gave me half an hour to contemplate the issues motorists face looking more-or-less into a low, bright sun. I am in NO WAY absolving the OP motorist in this post. This is an observation to let cyclists know the challenges motorists face while driving into, or nearly into a bright sun.

The main thing I found is that I drove with BOTH sun visors down because the sun was hitting my eyes from where the passenger sun visor would block it. I had polarized sunglasses on. There was still a large sun streak/glare pattern across my side as the windscreen was a bit dirty and the wipers/squirters didn't help with that much. I would have no problem seeing a stopped car in front of me EXCEPT that the lowered sun visors obscured my vision of the horizon and quite a bit of road toward the horizon. In fact, if I sat up straight with the sun visor all the way down, I couldn't see ANY road at all. In order to keep the sun out of my eyes I had to set the visor so I could see about 2 inches above the hood, which was about 10 car lengths ahead. I would duck down a bit every 15 seconds or so to get a view far up the road for any hazards, along with a heaping eyefull of sun.

My conclusion is that a motorist with their sun visor pulled down would not be "getting the big picture" as they teach in driver's ed. And it wouldn't take too much distraction inside the car, or plain zoning out, to travel the amount of visible roadway between the visor and the dash/hood. (I had no fear of cyclists in the road because they are not allowed on the bridge, but there could always be a break-down ahead). It is certainly plausible that the woman driving the OP car had the visor down blocking the view of the road far ahead, got distracted for two seconds, then cyclists were all over here hood and roof.

Next time you are cycling into the rising/setting sun, you may want to give this some though. All motorists are human and this scenario greatly enhances the chance for human error. By the time they see you, you could be in the car with them. It's not the SUN directly, it's the visor. You can't see through those things. Someone "stopped" in the road ahead would not have but split seconds to impact.
What time was your drive?
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Old 12-06-18, 04:13 PM
  #217  
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Originally Posted by JoeyBike View Post
And ^^This. Happy trails!

That is NOTHING like the situation the idiot motorist who is the subject of this thread faced.
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Old 12-06-18, 04:47 PM
  #218  
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Originally Posted by Paul Barnard View Post
What time was your drive?
I was on the bridge at 2:40 - 3:10ish. Sunset here is 5pm. The sun was plenty irritating but not impossible. Like I said, it was coming through the windscreen where the passenger side visor could cover it. Just before entering the bridge there was a short stretch of road putting the sun right in front of me. No way could I drive with my visor up in that spot. And it was ONLY 2:30 in the afternoon. Thankfully there were no cyclists on the road there.
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Old 12-06-18, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Paul Barnard View Post
That is NOTHING like the situation the idiot motorist who is the subject of this thread faced.
Would that sun position have mattered to those cyclists in the OP choice of routes? Would it matter to you? Or would you just go ride your bike without concern for how the sun might affect the vision of other road users who can kill you with one tiny mistake? Take the lane? Two abreast? Exert your right to the road?

Read this. Get back to me.

https://www.arrivealive.mobi/safe-dr...-dusk-and-dawn

Why is driving at Sunrise and Sunset an Increased Risk to Safety?

It will leave the driver closer to any hazard and leave a much reduced stopping distance.

As drivers tend to focus on driving more to the side of the road in reduced visibility it significantly increases the risk to cyclists.

Cyclists need to remain very attentive to driving as close to the side of the road as possible and remain in single file.

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Old 12-06-18, 07:11 PM
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Originally Posted by JoeyBike View Post
Would that sun position have mattered to those cyclists in the OP choice of routes? Would it matter to you? Or would you just go ride your bike without concern for how the sun might affect the vision of other road users who can kill you with one tiny mistake? Take the lane? Two abreast? Exert your right to the road?
I don't know
Yes
I would not
No
No
No

But the riders weren't dealing with a sun sitting dead on the horizon as you showed in that picture. In addition to driving close to 50K miles per year that I mentioned earlier in the thread, I am retired Coast Guard. I have operated boats and cars through thousands of sunrise and sunset cycles. It's never been problematic for me in terms of my ability to see other roadway or waterway users unless it's in the first or last 10 or so minutes.
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Old 12-06-18, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Paul Barnard View Post
I don't know
Yes
I would not
No
No
No
A+, Congrats! Obviously I don't have to worry about YOU riding your bike.

Originally Posted by Paul Barnard View Post
But the riders weren't dealing with a sun sitting dead on the horizon as you showed in that picture. In addition to driving close to 50K miles per year that I mentioned earlier in the thread, I am retired Coast Guard. I have operated boats and cars through thousands of sunrise and sunset cycles. It's never been problematic for me in terms of my ability to see other roadway or waterway users unless it's in the first or last 10 or so minutes.
And apparently I don't have to worry about YOU rolling up behind me in a motor vehicle. I'm sure you agree that the average motorist behind the steering wheel is no where NEAR your level of awareness of the world around you. And maybe you have some really nice sunglasses!
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Old 12-07-18, 06:22 AM
  #222  
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All this garbage ... the fact is, there is NO EXCUSE for hitting other roadway users. She can claim aliens controlled her brain with their invisible space-rays and made her do it. Whatever, She did it.

People here don't really discuss, they argue. They ignore the parts of other posts which are inconvenient to refute, and go off on tangents which aren't worth refuting. Too many people trying to Win the Internet.

Until someone can find out how long that group had been riding that road safely, no one has valid, pertinent information.

Plenty of people on this forum have been hit from behind, on all sorts of roads, at all sorts of times of day and external conditions. People who find cycling too risky should not ride.

People who are afraid to ride should not presume to counsel people who have no problem riding safely..
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Old 12-07-18, 06:54 AM
  #223  
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Here's the segment they were on:

https://www.strava.com/segments/10826563

50,482 Attempts By 2,854 People
The first 6 and a half pages are people forgetting to turn off their GPS while driving home from a ride. I'd assume 10% error overall.
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Old 12-07-18, 10:51 AM
  #224  
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Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
...Plenty of people on this forum have been hit from behind, on all sorts of roads, at all sorts of times of day and external conditions.
So you are saying that all roads and situations offer the same amount of risk as far as cycling goes. Interesting.

Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
People who find cycling too risky should not ride...
People who find certain roads too risky should consider other elements that make those roads even more risky, before they set out. Some roads that are perfectly legal to ride a bike upon should be avoided altogether perhaps, yet, people cycle on them anyway. Good for them. Just keep in mind that a man or woman JUST LIKE the one driving in the OP story is coming up behind you, again, and again, and....

You want to make sure the sun is in their eyes too, just for fun.

Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
People who are afraid to ride should not presume to counsel people who have no problem riding safely..
There is generally no problem riding safely, until there is a problem. Some would presume that cycling on high speed auto roads can not be made safe for slow moving, low profile road users. All we can do is mitigate as much risk as we can, and still get where we want to be. Alive. Or like you suggested - give it up. Blasting off without a care in the world seems less than safe to me.

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Old 12-07-18, 11:17 AM
  #225  
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Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
All this garbage ... the fact is, there is NO EXCUSE for hitting other roadway users. She can claim aliens controlled her brain with their invisible space-rays and made her do it. Whatever, She did it.

People here don't really discuss, they argue. They ignore the parts of other posts which are inconvenient to refute, and go off on tangents which aren't worth refuting. Too many people trying to Win the Internet.

Until someone can find out how long that group had been riding that road safely, no one has valid, pertinent information.

Plenty of people on this forum have been hit from behind, on all sorts of roads, at all sorts of times of day and external conditions. People who find cycling too risky should not ride.

People who are afraid to ride should not presume to counsel people who have no problem riding safely..
A well thought out and truthful post!!!
rydabent is offline  
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