Hoopdriver

Raleigh passed an ordinance 2 weeks ago to address use of motorized scooters. Previously there were only guidelines as you have indicated. As the scooters were not specifically described in other regulations, they were by default covered under the State reg as motor vehicles and thus prohibited from both sidewalks and also bike lanes. The new ordinance continues to define them as "motor vehicles" but adds the special designation of "motorized scooter" if they meet the requirements. Motorized scooters are still prohibited from the sidewalks but are now permitted to use bike lanes. Oddly they are prohibited from greenways and MUPs. Another oddity of the ordinance is the requirement that scooters have to stop or yield right of way when crossing any public street. This would mean that a scooter coming to an intersection where the signal light is green, would still have to stop. Odd indeed.

One of the reasons I posted this was the linking of scooters and bikes both in the initial discussions as well as the final ordinance. Controlling the use of scooters could easily trigger the extension of additional rules for bikes. The prohibition of motorized scooters on greenways and MUPs (because they are defined as motor vehicles) could lead to a crackdown on e-bikes on the trails. In my observation, e-bikes have opened up a new world for many people, allowing them to enjoy a ride when they otherwise would not physically be able to do, or (as a friend does) do a longish daily commute.

wingless

LV2TNDM

But a child riding a scooter or bicycle is legal on a sidewalk. This could very easily have been a child. Fifteen miles per hour is not that fast - in fact, that's usually the legal limit on most multi-use paths. And runners, although not hitting that speed, are pretty fast. Drivers entering the sidewalk have a duty to do so with caution. If coming from a concealed position, then even more so.

LV2TNDM

These Frickin' Scooter Shares...

... are AWESOME!

Been reading up about the electric scooter shares and am pretty surprised to learn about the backlash. City of SF IMPOUNDING a bunch of 'em? Damn, kinda knee-jerk and extreme if you ask me. That ain't so progressive. And just read the comments sections below articles about the share programs; people just foaming at the mouth spewing vitriol like it's mass murder or something. "Frickin' entitled hipster generation haven't earned a damn thing their whole lives...!" You get the picture.

However, I also appreciate that these dock-free share programs are posing problems for people and cities. But chill out, it's new. It needs to develop.

"As a cyclist, should you support electric scooter share programs?"

ABSOLUTELY YES!!!

Why? Do you ride in an urban environment? Isn't car traffic great? Getting buzzed by some jerk on his cell phone? Honked at for legally exercising your rights on the road? No? Of course it isn't! So what can we do to lessen the car traffic? Alternative transportation, that's how.

"But scooters aren't 'alternative transportation,' right?"

They sure are!

Who are the people double-parking in bike lanes?

You guessed it! Uber and Lyft drivers! Every electric scooter ride has the potential to eliminate an Uber or Lyft driver clogging YOUR route to work, school or the cafe. Every electric scooter ride is ONE LESS JERK DOUBLE-PARKED IN THE BIKE LANE! (Plus, oh the sweet irony of Uber and Lyft, who replaced hard-working cabbies, getting THEIR BUTTS replaced by electric scooters. That's some karmic justice right there!)

"But what about all those scooter idiots on the sidewalks?"

Sure, they're a pain in the ass right now; but the concept is still new and experienced growing pains.

"But what about all those scooter idiots in the bike lanes?"

That's a better question and concern. Nothing ruins a commute like getting sideswiped by some moron on a scooter who can't hold his line as you pass him, right?

Well, let's let this thing iron out the wrinkles, shall we?

How great is it to replace the 2,500 lb. single occupant, hydrocarbon-spewing, gasoline-drinking, motor vehicle with a tiny scooter? Really great, that's how much! And it's amazing that people haven't put 2 & 2 together and realized how awesome these share programs are. (Not so great for the auto and gasoline industries. They see their model under attack from all sides. And good. Srew 'em, taking away our Key Systems across the land. They deserve to die a miserable death.)

So as a cyclist, you absolutely want fewer body-crushing cars clogging your local streets, polluting your lungs, eyes and ears, and endangering everyone they pass.

And it also addresses drunk (and drugged - a bigger issue with legal pot now) driving. Last thing I want is Joe Sixpack jumping behind the wheel after six hours of uninterrupted drinking at the local watering hole and running me over. Put Joe on a scooter and he quickly becomes a danger only to himself. That's awesome! SF for that reason alone, should offer free rides to every bar patron in the city. Think of it.

"But what about all the scooters being left in doorways, pathways, entries, exits, etc.?"

Hey, let's designate some parking spaces every block or so in the city! That can't be hard? And I know a GREAT place to find these spaces...

Car parking spaces!

Cagers are so entitled, they'll ***** and moan if we take more parking away. But as any half-wit person with a grain of social awareness knows, "free parking" is anything but. Drivers have received subsidized parking for DECADES and that should end, pronto. Your employer and city agency has been forced to provide subsidized parking for people who can't break the car habit. Just another hidden subsidy the right won't acknowledge.

So dot parking spaces across the city at sensible intervals as designated scooter and bike share parking locations.

Voila! Problem solved. And now, as a cyclist, you know that you should put your wholehearted support into these bike/scooter/whatever-the-hell-replaces-single-occupant-vehicles share programs. Like big-time. Like go write your representative big-time. Really.

LV2TNDM

You realize that this statement is regularly aimed at cyclists by drivers, right? "Only an idiot would ride a bike with all these cars!" or "You're just asking to get killed riding like that!" And we all suffer as a result.

You're like the Christian denigrating the Mormon religion. Might want to think about that first.

JoeyBike

I have been warned against religious or political commentary here. So....there are...

CliffordK

At least the "Vehicular Cycling" advocates should be happy he is taking the lane when there is a perfectly good 6-foot road shoulder to the right.

CliffordK

Bird apparently knows who the rider was, but isn't releasing his name... yet. From the end of the article:The driver needs to get the Police involved "Hit & Run". They can pull a subpoena very easily.Portland, on the other hand, created a 4-month experiment, and licensed and taxed the scooters last summer.

They are now apparently analyzing the results from the experiment and determining if the scooters will be brought back next summer.

San Rensho 

He was riding legally on the sidewalk, we don't know what speed he was going at. Cars crossing a sidewalk have to yield yhe right of way to persons on the sidewalk.

the car driver was completely at fault

JoeyBike

No joke, but I can tell you where I live, every stop sign is placed BEFORE the sidewalks. How many cars do you think stop there, look down the sidewalk both ways, then proceed to the corner and stop again so they can look for traffic before entering the cross street? Spoiler alert!! - ZERO percent of them. I have never seen one motorist, other than myself, stop AT the stop sign. And I just made 60 years old. That's a pretty large sampling!

Yes, the motorist is at fault. But given that ZERO of them will stop AT the stop sign, wouldn't it be prudent as a sidewalk user to LOOK for those knuckleheads? Right of way does in no way insure our safety. WE insure our safety by LOOKING before we enter a roadway. Every single time.

livedarklions

Nope--from the article--Raleigh's rules don't give the scooter right of way: "The rules also say scooter riders must yield to pedestrians and drivers."

So, scooter that was supposed to yield ran into the rear seat door of the car. The fact that it was the rear seat door is important because it makes it obvious that the car was there first.

JoeyBike

What if the car ran the stop sign, which is almost certainly what happened. Every community I know of plants the stop sign in the ground BEFORE the sidewalk crossing. I don't know if there is any security video of the incident but I imagine running the stop sign would complicate the "right of way" law.

Riveting

If the scooter was just a plain-old-non-electric scooter, would anyone change their opinion about who was at fault here?

livedarklions

What the heck are you talking about? The video is linked in the OP. There is no stop sign. There is a gate. It goes up. The car proceeds, and the scooter zooms right into it when it's more than half way across the sidewalk.

"Almost certainly what happened...." That's pretty funny.

JoeyBike

Yeah, made me laugh too. Haven't looked a the video in a couple of weeks and confused with some other post. Pretty funny is right.

I do hate those types of parking garage exits right onto a sidewalk like you see in every city. Wouldn't be impossible for a motorized wheelchair to appear from the right side of the car. I don't see any convex mirrors on the wall so exiting motorists can't see down the sidewalk either.

I bet by law "Stop" is implied when exiting a parking garage, which was forced by the closed gate in this case. Not sure what the motorist could have done any differently while exiting that garage "blind" to sidewalk traffic.

Yeah, I think the scooter hit the car and gets the blame there. Hit and run scooter. More of that stuff to come I bet.

bbbean 

Vehicles belong on the road, not the sidewalk.

JoeyBike

Coincidentally I exited a similar hole in the wall tonight at the Windsor Court hotel in New Orleans. There were stop signs on both walls right and left at the opening in the wall but no gate. I thought about the scooter wreck as I inched out onto the sidewalk - blind to anything coming either direction. All I could do was inch out slower than walking speed until I got enough of the car past the wall to see down the sidewalk that I was mostly blocking.

I have no answer for this problem.

Rollfast

I do. Cities have asked these companies to insist that their users stay off the sidewalks, it's part of the usual contract, also single riders and that too is ignored.

The scooter user violated the rules, they are liable for their accident, even 50/50. Drivers cannot be expected to be able to quickly react to a fast moving scooter they can't see, even if they should have stopped before proceeding. This is no different than if the user ran in front of the car.

If the users cannot obey the terms of use then the city has no choice than to sanction the vendor to avoid their own liability.

This nonchalance is the biggest problem with rental scooters. They are supposed to stay on the streets.

Teamprovicycle

SHAME ON YOU FOR BEING DROPPED BY A DAMN E BOARD . eddy merx is spinning in his grave .

Let have a moment of silence for noodle legs on a mup that got dropped by an electric skate board .

Rollfast

Who are you referring to?

I ride mostly old stuff slow and wouldn't care.

livedarklions

No, he ran into the back half of the car, he had seconds to avoid it. Even if it were a pedestrian, it wasn't the driver's fault.

rumrunn6

apparently London has had their fist e-scooter fatality. a youtube celeb, Emily Hartridge. may she rest in peace

Leisesturm

I don't know about your state/city but in mine we have the data from the pilot rollout of the scooter program: 100% of the riders surveyed would have WALKED if the scooter had not been there. None would have driven (few Millenials even have DL's), none would have used mass transit. It was walk (urgh) or use the cool, new, fad/toy, plaything scooter. And why not leave it parked in a wheelchair ramp when you are done with it. GPS resolution in the U.S. is 10 meters. That means the scooter share head office only knows to 33' accuracy where you left their precious asset. There is zero accountability of the rider for safe and respectful post ride parking of the vehicle. We can agree that single occupancy vehicle overuse is unsustainable but I'm hanged if I've ever seen anyone much over the age of 25 using one. Those kids need exercise! Let them walk if that's what they were going to do before some tech start-up came up with a clever way to corner a market niche.

livedarklions

I read a little about that, and apparently the e scooter is not street legal nor sidewalk (pavement) legal there. Why are they even in London? Doesn't sound like there's any place to ride them except maybe bike paths.

She was on a street btw.