CB HI

You seem to have figured out why it is not on the market.

KraneXL

Actually, there were similar concerns (and still are) during the transition from manual crank windows to power windows, etc.: How would people get out if the car became waterlogged?

That proved to be a greater concern theoretical than in reality. In any event, it shouldn't prove to great an engineering solution to include a manual override for such an instant. What do you think?

Rollfast

Point taken and thanks for fixing that for them, but my response was not reliant, as I was trying to impart my notion of common sense.

Seems like Thomas Paine caught flak for that as well

Parliament is George Clinton's other band.

JoeyBike

I can't think of any in-car emergency (that is likely to happen) where lunging out into passing traffic would be the better option.

PatrickGSR94

The Dutch Reach is stupid, and in fact was coined by someone not even from the Netherlands! Dutch people don't even do this. Also, it's pretty easy to open one's door with their right hand while still looking straight ahead. And further, in nearly all cars, turning your head to look back results in a view of your B-pillar right in your face. Massive blind spot. The only REAL solution is to check your side view mirror before flinging the door open. And some sort of weird opposite hand approach certainly won't ensure that. You just have to know to do it. And Dutch people (and likely most everyone in Europe) ARE taught to check mirrors before opening car doors.

As for cyclists, ride out of the door zone. Always. Never, ever put yourself in that danger, and you'll never be doored. Pretty simple.

tyrion

In my experience that's not always feasible. There are some roads where taking the lane is the more dangerous option.

Paul Barnard

If that's the case, I wouldn't purposefully ride there.

Paul Barnard

Spot on!

CB HI

You cannot imagine a collision with subsequent fire and the door is locked because an object is in the door zone? What a very limited imagination.

CB HI

And yet people have drowned because of the feature. Many people are willing to risk death for just a slight amount of extra convenience.

tyrion

I definitely try to avoid them, but there are times when I find myself on them.

JoeyBike

Object in approaching door zone has to be moving. AND...same as electric door locks and windows in a submerged car, the safety feature is a brick, or similar glass breaking device. Technology can't save us all!

PatrickGSR94

I have not found that to be the case. In 5+ years riding, I simply do not ride in the door zone unless it's for a very quick second like avoiding a road hazard or something, and usually that's only on a residential road with no lane lines, and a car parked along the curb.

parkbrav

In the article, they discuss how cycling advocates are trying to encourage it as mandatory for driver's ed courses.

you could also promote it as a "popular fad" amongst the likely automobile offenders like big truck drivers. Like public service announcement or something.

Again, important point, I've been seeing drivers DOING IT. as in, voluntarily.

parkbrav

I saw a Mac-truck driver getting out of the truck using the Dutch Reach, crossing the street to get coffee and donuts. And then I realized I was biking down a road that was too busy for cyclists, so I ended up changing up my route.

Still, motorists ought to be more aware of cyclists.

PatrickGSR94

What constitutes "too busy for cyclists"? What if you happen to have a destination on that road?

fietsbob

.. in the You Guys 'They Should ' Committee Agenda, I've mentioned moving the driver side door handle
to be in such a position , the only way you could open the door is by reaching for it with the hand furthest from the door

which is the 'Dutch Reach' handle would be directly in line with your shoulder,, so as to require you to twist around , with the other hand ..

in a world that rather than investing in making it better, destroyed public transit to privatize getting around to require car buying by the individuals ...

Don't Hold Your Breath






....

adablduya

the door operator is already at fault, by default,and this needs no legislation. while the fault and legal responsibility lies with the door operator if a cyclist gets doored, that doesn't matter much to the cyclist who is on the deck, flopping like a fish on the beach. avoiding the door zone is entirely within cyclists' control, so any door collision is really on them.

JoeyBike

User perception, IMO.

You gotta do what you gotta do. But Patrick said the busy route was avoidable for him, so he chose a route where his perception felt it had less hazardous situations. Smart.

JoeyBike

Cars get doored too you know. So there has to be a law establishing fault. In this case, fault goes to the stopped vehicle suddenly throwing part of the car into moving traffic. It's a form of negligence more so that the motorists or cyclist JRA (Just Riding Along). I do agree, best to avoid the door zone altogether when not enclosed in an armored steel box.

PatrickGSR94

Well sure, we all would likely choose lower traffic routes when the option is available. But sooner or later one who cycles, especially for transportation, will have to mix it up with traffic at some point, to get to a destination on a road with traffic. That of course, assumes that you don't use the sidewalk, or even the grass when there's no sidewalk.

tyrion

Is it really a cut and dried slam-dunk, like rear-ending someone? My guess is that it varies from state to state.

It matters a lot, both in making the cyclist/victim's post-accident life easier and as a deterrent to careless door operation.

JoeyBike

If you gotta get to work on a bike, you just do your best with the hand you are dealt. If you are riding for recreation, then you have to ask yourself some questions about the necessity of taking the "death route" over an entirely different option. This is unofficial but seems to me, according to the death notices posted in A&S, more people get hozed to death on recreational rides than bike commuters. Commuters may get clobbered more often but generally at lower speeds in city grids where there is a better chance of survival and not making the death notices.

Rollfast

Generally, when you rear end somebody it's because your were following too closely and are going to be faulted for that.

This doesn't mean the driver in front of you wasn't doing the same etc. When this occurs you get pile-ups. Allowing yourself to get into herd mentality is dangerous.

KraneXL

I don't even know why people make these preposterous types of statement as if we look for reasons to put ourselves in danger. I suppose they cycle on peaceful country roads where people are beaming with sunshine and sugar plums. Perhaps they live in a world/community/environment where events around them happen one by one, and motorist wait politely unit the path is safe for them?

However, in the real world there is no road I can take where I'm not surrounded by traffic and often times aggressive drives; and one event doesn't wait until one ends before the other begins. They all can occur simultaneously.

So I can avoid the door zone completely and place myself in the lane of traffic where motorist don't observe the 3 ft rule. I effectively trade one potential moment of danger for another. If I see someone exiting their car do I move over out of the door zone and into the lane of an oncoming motorist?

What if I also spot a road hazard as I attempt to move over? Some sections I have to travel require constant computation with instantaneous decisions that don't always workout to my best interest.

Cycling is a dynamic process and there is always A event happening simultaneous with B and/or C. What is the solution for avoiding all of them, when they occur all at once?