Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Advocacy & Safety
Reload this Page >

Best strategy to defend against cars passing blind?

Notices
Advocacy & Safety Cyclists should expect and demand safe accommodation on every public road, just as do all other users. Discuss your bicycle advocacy and safety concerns here.

Best strategy to defend against cars passing blind?

Old 03-02-19, 09:31 AM
  #51  
Senior Member
 
u235's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 1,185
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 437 Post(s)
Liked 133 Times in 86 Posts
I ride where I need to ride which is usually close to the edge or pavement beyond the white line which my area has a lot of. If they choose to pass me and cross the line near a bend, where it may appear to me to be totally unsafe, where I feel they should or should not, or maybe where I would not have in their shoes... That is not my problem or decision or place. I am not the defacto road steward, person of "higher responsibility", flagman, or assumed traffic cop or crossing guard and no better or more informed than anyone else that might think otherwise. I am just the guy on a bike there at that time being as consistent and steady as I can doing my thing. I just want my minimum 2-3 feet spacing if and when they decide to pass.

Last edited by u235; 03-02-19 at 09:34 AM.
u235 is offline  
Old 03-02-19, 11:44 AM
  #52  
Senior Member
 
Jim from Boston's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 7,384
Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 800 Post(s)
Liked 218 Times in 171 Posts
Originally Posted by u235
I ride where I need to ride which is usually close to the edge or pavement beyond the white line which my area has a lot of.

If they choose to pass me and cross the line near a bend, where it may appear to me to be totally unsafe, where I feel they should or should not, or maybe where I would not have in their shoes...

That is not my problem or decision or place. I am not the defacto road steward, person of "higher responsibility", flagman, or assumed traffic cop or crossing guard and no better or more informed than anyone else that might think otherwise.

I am just the guy on a bike there at that time being as consistent and steady as I can doing my thing. I just want my minimum 2-3 feet spacing if and when they decide to pass.
IMO too, I think lane positioning is pragmatic.
Originally Posted by Hoopdriver
It's all situational
Originally Posted by Jim from Boston
…However, riding venues for me are situational, and I use my judgement
Originally Posted by Jim from Boston
Regarding the question of taking the lane, I’ve always felt it is a question of pragmatism, though I probably too obsequiously favor keeping the drivers happy by staying FRAP. Recently I posted on this thread:
Originally Posted by Jim from Boston
My usual routes are pretty safe…early morning or after rush hour in the evening, in the reverse commuting direction, on residential(though somewhat busy) and light commercial thoroughfares.

On a few rides over the past few days I have tried out the more aggressive position, in the right tire track, with very good results. I can easilymonitor the driver's responses in my rearview mirror...so far no aggressive maneuvers or honking.

I also like your strategy of gently nudging towards the center, then relenting towards the right. And I always give a wave to the cooperative driver, either before or after their pass...
Furthermore, I just yesterday replied to this thread on the Advocacy & safety Forum:
Originally Posted by Digital_Cowboy
Here's a question for everyone here. In a couple of other forums that I'm a member of (I'm able to Facebook from my phone) there is a member who seems to think that we as cyclists "have" to "acknowledge" motorists within the first 5-seconds that we realize that they're behind us.

I think that doing so sends the message that the time and destination of the motorists is somehow more important than our time and destination. And I know of no other class of vehicle operator that is "required" to "acknowledge" traffic behind them.
Originally Posted by Digital_Cowboy
although if we're on a road that is straight and has good sight lines, I'll wave a car by.

Or if we're on a road that has a curve and I can see that the motorist behind me is about to attempt a pass I'll put out the slow/stop signal to get them to stay behind me
.
Originally Posted by Jim from Boston
…I have posted frequently about the drivers that pass me,either to curse or bless them (link), depending on the pass, but mostly ignore them. I don’t particularly acknowledge drivers behind me either, but monitor them with my mirrors.

I recall posting that I don’t direct drivers to pass me, or hold up, but leave it up to them.

When I take the lane, I use a tactic of catch and release, i.e when about 20-30 feet behind, I shift right if possible and release the lane, with a wave of acknowledgement, kind of a “preemptory blessing.”
Jim from Boston is offline  
Old 03-02-19, 12:53 PM
  #53  
Senior Member
 
CliffordK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Posts: 27,600
Mentioned: 217 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18320 Post(s)
Liked 4,489 Times in 3,338 Posts
CliffordK is offline  
Old 03-05-19, 08:25 AM
  #54  
Senior Member
 
Notso_fastLane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Layton, UT
Posts: 1,606

Bikes: 2011 Bent TW Elegance 2014 Carbon Strada Velomobile

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 626 Post(s)
Liked 701 Times in 418 Posts
There's not much you can do to change behavior of other drivers.

The person who suggested a camera was part way there. I would recommend that. It won't necessarily prevent an incident, but it might. More importantly, if something does happen, it provides an invaluable source in the case where the driver tries to lie and blame you. Based on my experience, this will be 100% of the time. Most people simply don't want to take responsibility for their own actions.

However, like you said, calling and reporting to the police every time someone passes to close is a lot of work.

There's a better, easier solution: https://closecalldatabase.com/

Simply cut a clip from your commute, and upload to this database. This has two effects: 1) If they get a bunch of reports with the same license plate number, their database flags it, and they will call the local police for you (remember, you may not be the only local rider uploading video). and 2) if something does happen, they can check their database for others and your previous uploads and possibly show a pattern.

Other than that, you're pretty much doing everything you can. Drivers in that area (I used to live in Wichita) can really suck.
Notso_fastLane is offline  
Old 03-05-19, 11:22 AM
  #55  
20+mph Commuter
 
JoeyBike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: New Orleans, LA USA
Posts: 7,491

Bikes: Surly LHT, Surly Lowside, a folding bike, and a beater.

Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1422 Post(s)
Liked 315 Times in 210 Posts
Originally Posted by Notso_fastLane
...Most people simply don't want to take responsibility for their own actions....
I have noticed ^^this right here on BF. People engage in activities that put themselves at risk, then don't believe that getting smacked has anything to do with their choices and actions. It's always someone else's fault.

Like running with the bulls and complaining about getting trampled.
.
.
.
.
JoeyBike is offline  
Old 03-14-19, 11:21 PM
  #56  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Washington Grove, Maryland
Posts: 1,466

Bikes: 2003 (24)20-Speed Specialized Allez'

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 396 Post(s)
Liked 6 Times in 6 Posts
Originally Posted by guythatbrews
I am kinda frustrated with the whole cars passing blind deal. This is far and away the most dangerous thing I deal with. My commute is very winding with lots of rolling hills. Some of the hills are short and steep. I live on a residential lake so sight lines here are VERY short. After leaving the lake the ride is mostly rural (and a great ride!) until close to work where I encouter suburban drivers heading to work, i.e. impatient drivers. I am lucky no urban entaglement but lots of rednecks and unenlightened.

Credit where credit is due, some drivers are vey courteous and understanding. Maybe 2/3's or better. And I try to be visible as possible without being annoying. Lights and bright clothing, etc. I HOPE everyone sees me.

Taking the lane doesn't seem to help at all. The dummies just pass farther to the left. Even to the point of using the left shoulder if they have to. I used to signal an (uninteded) left turn thinking that will stop them passing. They would still zoom past. Finally realized they thought I was signalling them "safe to pass". Blind curve, up a hill, doesn't seem to matter. I usually take the lane and keep a mirror eye on approaching drivers. As soon as it is clear they are passers I switch to FRAP, realizing that is where I'm headed anyway when they meet oncoming traffic. Right or wrong I can't win that scrape.

I realize some people are just gonna pass. Rationally I know I will not delay their commute long. But long ago I realized you can't rationalize with the irrational. And there is still a surprising number of folks here of the "get your bike off the road" mindset.

My son's car was totaled on the lake road by a soccer mom passing blind. She was climbing a hill behind a dumptruck, impatient to make a left turn. My son was coming down the hill. As soon as she could see the road to the left she initiated her turn, directly into the path of my son. Dumptruck "took the lane" and she ignored and turned blindly! Clueless and a very possible fatality for a cyclist.

So I realize I can't stop this behaviour, but it still really bothers me. Like a ticking time bomb under my saddle. What do I do about it? Hollering does no good IMO. They probably can't hear anyway. I might get a freon horn to show displeasure. If I was driving I would honk so why not? Drivers understand an angry honk! The local police say if I bring in a video they will talk to the owner of the car. It seems to me this might be the best way to change behaviour. Has anyone done this? I don't have a cam and it seems kinda a lot of work, like a second job. And I don't really want to be a police officer.

I've seen some heated arguments about taking the lane vs FRAP and I hope this doesn't devolve into one of those. RIght or wrong, taking the lane doesn't work HERE.
The drivers behind you. Who are impatient and have the 'me first' attitude, are mentally a lost cause. Don't worry about their mindset. Just make yourself visible.
Chris0516 is offline  
Old 03-15-19, 02:39 AM
  #57  
Full Member
 
ExPatTyke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Weston-super-Mare, Somerset, UK
Posts: 433

Bikes: Gitane Course, Paris Sport, Peugeot AO8, Peugeot Bretagne, Peugeot Premiere 85, Peugeot Premiere 86, Peugeot ANC Halfords Team Replica, Peugeot Festina Team Replica, Motobecane Grand Sport, Motobecane Super 15, Raleigh Pro Race, Raleigh Stratos, BSA

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 117 Post(s)
Liked 427 Times in 90 Posts
Unfortunately there is very little or nothing you can do as a cyclist to prevent motorists from overtaking you in dangerous places. A lot of otherwise rational people develop a dangerous and aggressive mindset as soon as they get behind the wheel and all you can do is ride carefully, as you seem to do, and prepare for the MGIFs.

A good part of my commute is on narrow country lanes and I am frequently overtaken by drivers in dangerous places, at dangerous speeds. There is no way I can prevent them doing this other than riding primary, and doing this puts me at risk from traffic coming from behind at high speed and oncoming traffic. It does however, give me a safety cushion of 2 - 3 feet from the verge so I will usually adopt this as a survival strategy.
To give an idea of this the picture below shows a stretch of lane I ride on quite often. It's winding, with a few blind crests and bridges like the one in the picture. The speed limit on here is 60mph, and a lot of drivers will do this speed. Don't be fooled by the hatchings on the road in the foreground incidentally; it's a weak bridge and the makings are there to keep traffic in the centre of the road, not to denote a cycle lane.



I will never wave a driver past when the road is clear - if they do go past and I misjudge it and they hit me or another road user where does liability end up? On the (all too rare) occasions when a driver passes wide and safely I'll give them a wave of thanks but that's the sole interaction.

Finally, I carry a camera in plain view. It works for me in two ways.
Firstly, and most importantly, the sight of a camera does have an effect on how motorists behave around you. I find I get far fewer close passes and motorists are less likely to pull out in front of me when I'm carrying the camera.
Secondly, because my local police force are quite pro-active, I can submit video to them easily and they will take action. Their normal process is either a warning letter to the RK or a visit to the RK's home by traffic officer, but they can and do prosecute using submitted video - the screengrab from the video below earned the driver a visit from A&S Police. The warnings do work; I see the same vehicles frequently on my commutes and have never seen a repeat of a reported close pass.

ExPatTyke is offline  
Old 03-15-19, 03:14 AM
  #58  
Senior Member
 
rseeker's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Southeast US
Posts: 937
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 318 Post(s)
Liked 149 Times in 104 Posts
Originally Posted by ExPatTyke
Looking at that picture, first thing that comes to mind is the scene at the end of Lawrence of Arabia where he's killed on his motorcycle. Beautiful setting. Stay safe.

(I'll have to watch it again and make sure I'm not imagining things. It's been a while.)

(Well I just watched it and he swerved to avoid a couple people on bicycles, which doesn't really fit the narrative does it? So never mind.)


Last edited by rseeker; 03-15-19 at 03:37 AM.
rseeker is offline  
Old 03-15-19, 06:40 AM
  #59  
Full Member
 
ExPatTyke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Weston-super-Mare, Somerset, UK
Posts: 433

Bikes: Gitane Course, Paris Sport, Peugeot AO8, Peugeot Bretagne, Peugeot Premiere 85, Peugeot Premiere 86, Peugeot ANC Halfords Team Replica, Peugeot Festina Team Replica, Motobecane Grand Sport, Motobecane Super 15, Raleigh Pro Race, Raleigh Stratos, BSA

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 117 Post(s)
Liked 427 Times in 90 Posts
Originally Posted by rseeker
Looking at that picture, first thing that comes to mind is the scene at the end of Lawrence of Arabia where he's killed on his motorcycle. Beautiful setting. Stay safe.
(I'll have to watch it again and make sure I'm not imagining things. It's been a while.)
(Well I just watched it and he swerved to avoid a couple people on bicycles, which doesn't really fit the narrative does it? So never mind.)
That's one of those classic films I really should have watched but have never got round to. More rain forecast for the weekend, so I'll suggest sitting down and watching it to Mrs EPT. Just looked up the location for it incidentally and it's Chobham in Surrey.
ExPatTyke is offline  
Old 03-17-19, 11:45 AM
  #60  
What happened?
 
Rollfast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Around here somewhere
Posts: 8,050

Bikes: 3 Rollfasts, 3 Schwinns, a Shelby and a Higgins Flightliner in a pear tree!

Mentioned: 57 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1835 Post(s)
Liked 292 Times in 255 Posts
Oh, Magoo!
__________________
I don't know nothing, and I memorized it in school and got this here paper I'm proud of to show it.
Rollfast is offline  
Old 03-17-19, 05:33 PM
  #61  
Senior Member
 
Maelochs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 15,453

Bikes: 2015 Workswell 066, 2017 Workswell 093, 2014 Dawes Sheila, 1983 Cannondale 500, 1984 Raleigh Olympian, 2007 Cannondale Rize 4, 2017 Fuji Sportif 1 LE

Mentioned: 144 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7628 Post(s)
Liked 3,453 Times in 1,823 Posts
Originally Posted by ExPatTyke
- the screengrab from the video below earned the driver a visit from A&S Police.
Wow. " ...a visit from the A&S Police" ... a phrase that strikes terror into so many of the posters here, I am sure .....
Maelochs is offline  
Old 03-17-19, 08:26 PM
  #62  
What happened?
 
Rollfast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Around here somewhere
Posts: 8,050

Bikes: 3 Rollfasts, 3 Schwinns, a Shelby and a Higgins Flightliner in a pear tree!

Mentioned: 57 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1835 Post(s)
Liked 292 Times in 255 Posts
The A&S Police never looked as good as Cheap Trick though.
__________________
I don't know nothing, and I memorized it in school and got this here paper I'm proud of to show it.
Rollfast is offline  
Old 03-18-19, 01:29 AM
  #63  
Full Member
 
ExPatTyke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Weston-super-Mare, Somerset, UK
Posts: 433

Bikes: Gitane Course, Paris Sport, Peugeot AO8, Peugeot Bretagne, Peugeot Premiere 85, Peugeot Premiere 86, Peugeot ANC Halfords Team Replica, Peugeot Festina Team Replica, Motobecane Grand Sport, Motobecane Super 15, Raleigh Pro Race, Raleigh Stratos, BSA

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 117 Post(s)
Liked 427 Times in 90 Posts
Originally Posted by Maelochs
Wow. " ...a visit from the A&S Police" ... a phrase that strikes terror into so many of the posters here, I am sure .....
Ha ha, I hadn't noticed the significance when I typed that . The Avon and Somerset force was the intended meaning.
ExPatTyke is offline  
Old 03-19-19, 11:58 AM
  #64  
What happened?
 
Rollfast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Around here somewhere
Posts: 8,050

Bikes: 3 Rollfasts, 3 Schwinns, a Shelby and a Higgins Flightliner in a pear tree!

Mentioned: 57 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1835 Post(s)
Liked 292 Times in 255 Posts
__________________
I don't know nothing, and I memorized it in school and got this here paper I'm proud of to show it.
Rollfast is offline  
Old 03-19-19, 12:52 PM
  #65  
Senior Member
 
Maelochs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 15,453

Bikes: 2015 Workswell 066, 2017 Workswell 093, 2014 Dawes Sheila, 1983 Cannondale 500, 1984 Raleigh Olympian, 2007 Cannondale Rize 4, 2017 Fuji Sportif 1 LE

Mentioned: 144 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7628 Post(s)
Liked 3,453 Times in 1,823 Posts
I saw them open for Robert Plant. They did pretty well .... but by comparison .....
Maelochs is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Equinox
Advocacy & Safety
66
07-20-16 06:57 PM
banerjek
Road Cycling
67
04-17-14 10:59 AM
AzTallRider
Fifty Plus (50+)
44
05-14-12 09:19 AM
drummergeek
Commuting
34
06-25-11 04:55 PM
tadawdy
Advocacy & Safety
48
01-27-10 09:13 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.