Advocacy & Safety Cyclists should expect and demand safe accommodation on every public road, just as do all other users. Discuss your bicycle advocacy and safety concerns here.

Wrong Way Road Biking?

Old 04-14-19, 10:24 AM
  #76  
Daniel4
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,968
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 674 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 10 Times in 7 Posts
The only time I was salmoning was when I exited a park that I regularly use. Normally, I can't make a left turn to continue my ride on the road so I go up the sidewalk (west side, northbound).

This one time the sidewalk and part of the road was closed and all dug up. There were pilons on the road, so I rode up along the pilons. Then to my horror, I realized I was salmoning up the car lane. Luckily, there was enough space and time for me to pass the construction and get back onto the sidewalk before the oncoming traffic entered the pilons.

Last edited by Daniel4; 04-14-19 at 10:53 AM.
Daniel4 is offline  
Old 04-15-19, 02:03 AM
  #77  
Chris0516
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Washington Grove, Maryland
Posts: 1,434

Bikes: 2003 (24)20-Speed Specialized Allez'

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 381 Post(s)
Liked 6 Times in 6 Posts
Originally Posted by Rcrxjlb View Post
I've noticed that some cyclists here in Dallas ride on the left side of the street, against the flow of traffic.
Is this done as a safety practice, or just not knowing the rules of the road...?
They think. They will increase the chance of the driver seeing the cyclist. When all they are doing is. Increasing the chance of an accident. By a vehicle hitting the cyclist at an increased rate of speed.
Chris0516 is offline  
Old 04-16-19, 12:44 PM
  #78  
noimagination
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 107
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 66 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by dynodonn View Post
On one section of our local highway, riding salmon I would feel as being much safer, since to flow with traffic means crossing numerous off ramps and on ramps and intersections, while the opposite side is practically free of them, and directly connects to a bike trail further down the highway without having to cross the highway with at speed traffic.
I hope no one is saying that salmoning is wrong in every circumstance. See above for a great example where salmoning might be wise.

However, as a general rule, riding with the flow of traffic is safer as many have stated.
1) At every intersection, parking lot entrance, driveway and other entry to the roadway, drivers are looking towards the flow of traffic before pulling out. Many (most?) do not check for traffic coming against the flow before pulling out. If you watch, their eyes generally follow the last car before the gap into which they intent to pull their car. Many/most never look in the lane of travel they are pulling into until the last instant.
2) At every intersection, turning traffic will not be looking for "traffic" coming against the flow. Even if, as a cyclist, you're aware of the danger it can sometimes be difficult to see what oncoming/following traffic is doing (right turners could be hidden by the car immediately in front of you; left turners are behind you and could be on the other side of traffic making it tough to see them).
3) Less time to react - not only the combined speeds, the unexpectedness (to the driver) of oncoming traffic, but also imagine coming around a blind curve with little/no shoulder and facing an oncoming cyclist.
4) All of the traffic signs, traffic lights, etc. that apply to your direction of travel are facing away from you.
noimagination is offline  
Old 04-18-19, 07:26 PM
  #79  
350htrr
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Canada, PG BC
Posts: 3,672

Bikes: 27 speed oryx with over 39,000Km on it, 11,000Km with a BionX assist on it

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 911 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Originally Posted by noimagination View Post
I hope no one is saying that salmoning is wrong in every circumstance. See above for a great example where salmoning might be wise.

However, as a general rule, riding with the flow of traffic is safer as many have stated.
1) At every intersection, parking lot entrance, driveway and other entry to the roadway, drivers are looking towards the flow of traffic before pulling out. Many (most?) do not check for traffic coming against the flow before pulling out. If you watch, their eyes generally follow the last car before the gap into which they intent to pull their car. Many/most never look in the lane of travel they are pulling into until the last instant.
2) At every intersection, turning traffic will not be looking for "traffic" coming against the flow. Even if, as a cyclist, you're aware of the danger it can sometimes be difficult to see what oncoming/following traffic is doing (right turners could be hidden by the car immediately in front of you; left turners are behind you and could be on the other side of traffic making it tough to see them).
3) Less time to react - not only the combined speeds, the unexpectedness (to the driver) of oncoming traffic, but also imagine coming around a blind curve with little/no shoulder and facing an oncoming cyclist.
4) All of the traffic signs, traffic lights, etc. that apply to your direction of travel are facing away from you.
It all depends on speed, if you are cycling at walking speed, no, you do not increase your chance of being hit by a vehicle, maybe, you actually would/could be reducing it.... BUT... any faster …. Yes you do actually increase the risk factor, JMO as a vehicle driver too, not just as a bicyclist…
350htrr is offline  
Old 04-18-19, 08:47 PM
  #80  
Maelochs
Senior Member
 
Maelochs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 11,468

Bikes: 2015 Workswell 066, 2014 Dawes Sheila, 1983 Cannondale 500, 1984 Raleigh Olympian, 2007 Cannondale Rize 4, 2017 Fuji Sportif 1 LE

Mentioned: 134 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5405 Post(s)
Liked 68 Times in 47 Posts
Came across a salmon this evening. because of construction, the far lane had a like of Jersey barriers along the fog line, and this person chose to rid in the breakdown lane going the wrong way instead of taking the lane.

Of course, this forced me out into traffic---she basically said, "It is too dangerous for me, but screw you."

I wished I had stopped, blocked her way, and explained the law and what she should do---if she was going to ride straight at me at undiminished speed, taking the whole breakdown lane ... she could at least stop and pull to one side so I could pass more safely.

However, I did not stop, I did not say anything more than that she was going the wrong way, and she probably thinks I am a jerk for expecting her to ride safely instead of pushing me out into traffic.

That's life.
Maelochs is offline  
Old 04-19-19, 05:46 AM
  #81  
noimagination
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 107
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 66 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by 350htrr View Post
It all depends on speed, if you are cycling at walking speed, no, you do not increase your chance of being hit by a vehicle, maybe, you actually would/could be reducing it.... BUT... any faster …. Yes you do actually increase the risk factor, JMO as a vehicle driver too, not just as a bicyclist…
(Ignoring the question of why one would want to ride at a walking pace, why not just...walk???)

Hmm, not sure how you would reduce your chance of being hit by riding at a walking pace. The hazards I listed still apply. Riding a bike, you cannot stop as quickly as a pedestrian can, you cannot change directions as quickly, you cannot accelerate as quickly, you're taking up more space, etc... (not to mention the possibility of keeling over à la Arte Johnson). Most of the reasons for walking facing traffic simply do not apply to riding a bike. Which is why traffic laws require cyclists to ride in the same direction as traffic, and why it is recommended that pedestrians, in the absence of a sidewalk, walk facing traffic.

No practice is safe in every possible scenario. We're responsible for using our judgement to keep ourselves safe. Sometimes that will mean riding against traffic, but most of the time it won't.

--------
noimagination is offline  
Old 04-19-19, 07:25 AM
  #82  
Maelochs
Senior Member
 
Maelochs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 11,468

Bikes: 2015 Workswell 066, 2014 Dawes Sheila, 1983 Cannondale 500, 1984 Raleigh Olympian, 2007 Cannondale Rize 4, 2017 Fuji Sportif 1 LE

Mentioned: 134 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5405 Post(s)
Liked 68 Times in 47 Posts
Originally Posted by 350htrr View Post
It all depends on speed, if you are cycling at walking speed, no, you do not increase your chance of being hit by a vehicle, maybe, you actually would/could be reducing it...
Bleep. If a car is going to hit you coming head-on, your escape routes are so limited you are pretty much going down anyway ... even if you are riding at three mph (which is probably less stable than twice as fast.)

And again ... what if someone is riding Properly and meets you? Do you just gamble that that won't happen?

As I said, I am pretty tired of being pushed into traffic be people who don;t know how to ride a bike properly. I have never seen a wrong-way rider pull over to let me by ....

It's funny, all these excuses for wrong-way riding ... how many would fly if we were Driving the wrong way? But we can break the law, because we are cyclists .... but if a Driver breaks the law, we want to the harshest penalties to prevent that sort of behavior in the future.

If you cannot ride a bike safely on the road, stick to MUPs.
Maelochs is offline  
Old 04-19-19, 09:02 AM
  #83  
Notso_fastLane
Senior Member
 
Notso_fastLane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Layton, UT
Posts: 837

Bikes: Bent TW Elegance

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 92 Post(s)
Liked 15 Times in 13 Posts
Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
Came across a salmon this evening. because of construction, the far lane had a like of Jersey barriers along the fog line, and this person chose to rid in the breakdown lane going the wrong way instead of taking the lane.

Of course, this forced me out into traffic---she basically said, "It is too dangerous for me, but screw you."

I wished I had stopped, blocked her way, and explained the law and what she should do---if she was going to ride straight at me at undiminished speed, taking the whole breakdown lane ... she could at least stop and pull to one side so I could pass more safely.

However, I did not stop, I did not say anything more than that she was going the wrong way, and she probably thinks I am a jerk for expecting her to ride safely instead of pushing me out into traffic.

That's life.
I usually stop, point my front wheel at the curb, so I'm angled in a way that the salmon is the one forced to go around against traffic. They want to ride that way, they can deal with it.
Notso_fastLane is offline  
Old 04-21-19, 11:59 AM
  #84  
Daniel4
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,968
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 674 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 10 Times in 7 Posts
Originally Posted by Notso_fastLane View Post
I usually stop, point my front wheel at the curb, so I'm angled in a way that the salmon is the one forced to go around against traffic. They want to ride that way, they can deal with it.
Isn't there a moral or ethical issue that if you're currently in the safer position and the salmoner is already in the more hazardous position, you're increasing his risk even further when you don't have to?
Daniel4 is offline  
Old 04-21-19, 02:10 PM
  #85  
Rick
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 220
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 83 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times in 6 Posts
The law breakers are the ones that should be endangered not the law abiding citizens. The ones who break the law are the ones without morals.
Rick is offline  
Old 04-22-19, 02:33 PM
  #86  
Notso_fastLane
Senior Member
 
Notso_fastLane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Layton, UT
Posts: 837

Bikes: Bent TW Elegance

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 92 Post(s)
Liked 15 Times in 13 Posts
Originally Posted by Daniel4 View Post
Isn't there a moral or ethical issue that if you're currently in the safer position and the salmoner is already in the more hazardous position, you're increasing his risk even further when you don't have to?
No. If the salmon really is that concerned about it, they can stop, get on the sidewalk, and walk around me. I'm not endangering myself because they are knowingly or unknowingly breaking the law or otherwise being unsage.
Originally Posted by Rick View Post
The law breakers are the ones that should be endangered not the law abiding citizens. The ones who break the law are the ones without morals.
I wouldn't go so far as to say they don't have morals. I am willing to stipulate they might not know any better. That doesn't change my action in protecting myself, though.
Notso_fastLane is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.