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If You're in Tennessee....

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If You're in Tennessee....

Old 03-09-19, 11:26 AM
  #1  
tn_roadie
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If You're in Tennessee....

A bill in the legislature - Senate Bill 1107 (Dickerson) and House Bill 1220 (Potts) is being pushed by the scooter companies, Spin, Bird, Lime, etc.

The bill amends current bicycle law to insure that “electric foot scooters” are given the same rights and responsibilities as bicycles and electric bicycles in Tennessee. This includes adding them to Tennessee Code Annotated 55-8-175 that includes the Jeff Roth Protection Act requiring automobile drivers to give bicyclists a three foot buffer when passing. It also includes scooters in the statutes on electric bikes in TCA 55-8-301 et seq.

I am urging bicycle riders and advocates to oppose the bill as it is currently written.

1. Scooters are not bicycles and should be placed in their own legal category.
2. The basic bicycle law was first passed in 1955 and amended in 1985 and 2007. The law on electric bikes was passed in 2016.
3. Bicycle statutes are established law and scooters first appeared on Tennessee streets in 2018. The law on bicycles should not be used for a new and unknown technology.
4. We do not want to interfere with the rights of cities to regulate scooters and we do not want them to have the right to regulate bicycles. We are not opposed to electric scooters on our streets.
5. Scooters should not be included in TCA 55-8-171 et seq. which is the basic law on bicycles. They should not be included in TCA 55-8-301 et seq. the chapter defining electric bicycles. E-bikes are just a different type of bicycle, have been used for years and are regulated by federal standards.

The scooter companies have a lot of money and have hired some heavy hitter lobbyists. City governments are concerned about their right to regulate scooters. They will all be in the room when the negotiating starts. I need people in Tennessee to write your state representative and state senator. You can find them here.

Find Your Legislator

The bill is here.

SB 1107 - HB 1220

If you want more information DM me.

The scooter companies are trying this all over the country so you might want to check with your own state legislator.
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Old 03-09-19, 09:29 PM
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Excellent post. I am not a Vol, but I heartily applaud the OP for providing comprehensive grassroots-lobbying information.
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Old 03-10-19, 11:26 AM
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My city (New Orleans) opted out of the scooter fad. Could you imagine the mayhem of 100% drunks on eScooters, in a city where 50-90% of motorists are drunk, depending on the day, and a large percentage of mindless pedestrians are also drunk? Even the "Less-Than" folks who run this city decided "Naaaaah. Pass."

Otherwise, I wasn't seeing the problem of just using the same bicycle rules for the scooters. Fewer cars on the roads is a good thing no matter how it gets accomplished IMO. Anyhoo...I no longer have a dog in this fight. Will be interested in how it goes for Tennessee. Good luck!
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Old 03-10-19, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by JoeyBike View Post
My city (New Orleans) opted out of the scooter fad.
New Orleans will not be alone as scooter less in the near future.
I predict, based on my own guesswork, that the rental scooter fad will last about as long as the hyped up "Segway Revolution" and have about the same level of impact on transportation for adults.
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Old 03-10-19, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
New Orleans will not be alone as scooter less in the near future.
I predict, based on my own guesswork, that the rental scooter fad will last about as long as the hyped up "Segway Revolution" and have about the same level of impact on transportation for adults.
The level of maintenance on any public electric bike thingy must be intense. I have read a few stories on how they keep them charged and maintained. Can't see how they ever make a profit.

That said, I enjoy our bike share program in NOLA (no motors). I am fairly certain that if there were motorized scooters laying around the place I could work those into my lifestyle as well. But like you, I can't see the long term viability beyond temporary novelty use and tourists wanting a visit to one of our many emergency rooms during their stay.
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Old 03-10-19, 05:19 PM
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http://www.capitol.tn.gov/Bills/111/Bill/SB1107.pdf

I think there are two questions.

First, whether we actually WANT electric bikes, scooters, Segways, etc.

Second, how to treat them on the road.

It many cases scooters share many aspects with bicycles and other vulnerable road users.

Low power scooters may work well on sidewalks, but the higher power scooters may be better off on the road, but in bike lanes, controlled access areas, to the side of the road, etc.

I.E. I don't see how they should be treated by cars significantly different from bicycles, pedestrians, and other vulnerable road users.

There should be provisions to allow power, speed, and off-street (park, MUP) access to be regulated by the governments.

One would expect them to have functioning lighting, perhaps lights on 24/7. Other scooter specific definitions?
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Old 03-10-19, 05:50 PM
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My only issue with the rental fleets is that many times the skills and respect that owners have doesn't carry over. I have no problem with laws designed to protect them.
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Old 03-11-19, 07:28 AM
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Johnson City, Tn. here. I have to agree with CliffordK as everyone on the road should have equal legal protection afforded to them.

Now as for these scooters. My only interaction with them came last Fall in Washington D.C. They were all over the place on the sidewalks and if you weren't careful you would get hit. The same with cyclists there. Too many of them fly around on the sidewalks. I met one guy at a stop light who was riding on the road and applauded him for doing so.

Scooters do need a new category as they are just starting to show up in larger numbers. I will drop my rep and senator a line to get their thoughts and voice my concerns as well.

ETA....
Emails sent

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Old 03-11-19, 08:57 AM
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I am always entertained when cyclists complain about other road users disturbing their flow.
.
.
.
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Old 03-11-19, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
I predict, based on my own guesswork, that the rental scooter fad will last about as long as the hyped up "Segway Revolution" and have about the same level of impact on transportation for adults.
I'll file that prediction of the scooter fad right next to your predictions of the bikeshare fad.

-mr. bill
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Old 03-11-19, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by mr_bill View Post
I'll file that prediction of the scooter fad right next to your predictions of the bikeshare fad.

-mr. bill
Be sure to let BF know when your Googling research unearths a file indicating that any bikeshare or bike scooter operation actually turns in a profit.
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Old 03-11-19, 10:36 AM
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Either they allow these scooters to go 30 mph on the road OR give them the FULL rights of a BICYCLE to use MUPs etc.
Does the Green Gang want people out of their cars or NOT??? 20 mph on the road is pathetic and dangerous.
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Old 03-11-19, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by GamblerGORD53 View Post
Either they allow these scooters to go 30 mph on the road OR give them the FULL rights of a BICYCLE to use MUPs etc.
Does the Green Gang want people out of their cars or NOT??? 20 mph on the road is pathetic and dangerous.
All of the MUPs in my hood exclude motorized vehicles except wheelchairs. Now and again I see an electric skateboard or an eBike but very few. There is no enforcement. So I guess if there were 1000 electric scooters lying around it could become a problem for the parks.

Those tiny wheels hitting cracks and potholes at 30mph should cure the problem pretty quickly with lawsuits.
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Old 03-11-19, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by GamblerGORD53 View Post
Either they allow these scooters to go 30 mph on the road OR give them the FULL rights of a BICYCLE to use MUPs etc.
Does the Green Gang want people out of their cars or NOT??? 20 mph on the road is pathetic and dangerous.
What? I average 15 mph give or take a couple depending on my health. I should not be allowed on the road? Are you really wanting to call cyclists "pathetic and dangerous" unless they are cruising at a 20 mph average?

I say, let them use the bike lanes and sides of the road, just like bikes, and let the operators die when they realize how crappy some of the pavement is. I can imagine a scooter, with an 18-inch wheel base, three-inch wheels and a CG three feet in the air, hitting a bunch of sand and gravel crossing an intersection or blocking a bike lane. I won't imagine it because who need to d=think about that much gore? As for MUPs .... physics and Darwin will thin the herd there, too.
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Old 03-11-19, 05:51 PM
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They are currently illegal in Florida on both roads and sidewalks, although I don't know that this is enforced. They're looking into changing that in the upcoming legislative session, but I don't know that there's any consensus on how that might be done. Municipalities have significant concern about their own liability if use on sidewalks is allowed. A lot of sidewalks are not currently maintained at a level that would allow for use of such motorized vehicles.
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Old 03-11-19, 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by jon c. View Post
A lot of sidewalks are not currently maintained at a level that would allow for use of such motorized vehicles.
The most common motorized vehicles on a sidewalk are motor vehicles. How odd that motor vehicles are accomodated, but other wheeled vehicles can’t be. (Oh, legally allowed since 1990, just not actually allowed. Assessibility is too often a cruel joke.)

-mr. bill
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Old 03-11-19, 06:39 PM
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Well it seems I was thinking of the wrong kind of scooter. My bad. So these are the skate boards with a handle and motor? Looks like a sidewalk rider to me and not too far. Perfect for tourists on MUPS or BLs.
I don't see how there is room on sidewalks downtown, if used to get to work after the subway. Same as the problem with skateboards, they can be on the streets too.
I wouldn't lump them with bicycles either.
They shouldn't even call them scooters. How about SKITTERS.

I still think anything without a licence plate does NOT constitute as a MOTOR vehicle, e-bike or not.
That is just NIMBYism to me. 20 mph is 20 mph either way.

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Old 03-11-19, 08:50 PM
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The issue with these are several. Stability at speed is an issue (extremely narrow track and short wheel base, high center of gravity.) Braking is an issue (tiny wheels not much brake area, instability.) The idea of riders trying to control unstable vehicles with poor brakes in crowds of pedestrians on sidewalks which are not maintained to be smooth enough for unsuspended vehicles with small wheels traveling at 20 mph ...
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Old 03-12-19, 04:01 AM
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I think that we can all agree that they are not "scooters" in the normal use of the word. As I explained to my state senator and representative, they are more like an e-skateboard.

Affording them the same protections as implied by our states 3' law is no big deal. But... As others have stated. They should not be in any way be placed into the same classification as a bicycle. When people think "scooter", they do not think of these devices.
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Old 03-12-19, 06:04 AM
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Originally Posted by bakerjw View Post
I think that we can all agree that they are not "scooters" in the normal use of the word.


-mr. bill
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Old 03-12-19, 06:07 AM
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Get off my festival!

-mr. bill
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Old 03-12-19, 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by bakerjw View Post
They [e-scooters] should not be in any way be placed into the same classification as a bicycle.
Think about what you are saying. Maybe say it out loud, record it, then listen to it. An electric scooter is just second cousin to a pedal bike, and first cousin to an E-bike. Think of how different a pedal bicycle is from a CAR or TRUCK. Now say this out loud: "They [pedal bicycles] should not in any way be placed into the same classification as a motor vehicle". Yet...many have worked so hard to make sure that pedal bikes are treated the same as motor vehicles even though one is from Venus, the other from Jupiter. Cars and bikes are totally dissimilar. Scooters and bikes are almost the same thing. I am not comprehending your reasoning here.
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Old 03-12-19, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by JoeyBike View Post
Think about what you are saying. Maybe say it out loud, record it, then listen to it. An electric scooter is just second cousin to a pedal bike, and first cousin to an E-bike. Think of how different a pedal bicycle is from a CAR or TRUCK. Now say this out loud: "They [pedal bicycles] should not in any way be placed into the same classification as a motor vehicle". Yet...many have worked so hard to make sure that pedal bikes are treated the same as motor vehicles even though one is from Venus, the other from Jupiter. Cars and bikes are totally dissimilar. Scooters and bikes are almost the same thing. I am not comprehending your reasoning here.
if you make me agree with you one more time, @JoeyBike, I am coming down to Nola and driving past you really close .....

This is where I get confused, too. Why is anyone worried about scooters in the bike lane? If they travel at bicycle speeds, why not put them in with bicycles? Same with e-bikes. We cannot have four or five specialty lanes on the side of every road, there isn't room for it.

If scooter users break the laws and create hazards, we would handle it the same way we handle bad cyclists or drivers---pull out your phone and take video. Or use the bike-mounted cameras so many here seem to think are necessary. Or ... give the butt-head a swift kick while s/he is passing. With the inherent instability of those things, any touch above the belt line would send the rider flying. Whatever.

Cyclists don't Own the bike lane. We share the entire road surface with everyone else (which we all appreciate when there isn't a bike lane.) And if scooter riders, through general bad behavior, cause a lot of issues, they will end up with large legal and hospital bills, and then laws restricting their use will get passed. But most of those "issues" would likely be with cars. A stupid fool on a scooter is no harder to avoid than a stupid fool riding salmon, or a stupid fool shouting "Strava segment! Clear a path!" and we manage to avoid those stupid fools with little problem.
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Old 03-12-19, 11:14 AM
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With all of the condescension put aside. When I think of scooters, I think of the 50cc ones that we see on the roads in our area. The ones that require license plates. These other scooters are more along the lines of Segways which currently have no classification in the TCA.

Personally I have no problem with where these devices are operated. MUPs, bike lanes, wherever is fine with me as long as when on the road they are covered under the Jeff Roth section of the TCA. Putting them into the TCA where this bill proposes makes no sense. If one goes and reads the TCA, specifically starting with TCA 55-8-171 and then on to TCA 55-8-301 you will find that TCA 55-8-171 focuses on bicycles and play vehicles while TCA 55-8-301 was added to focus on E-bikes.

TCA 55-8-171 does make reference to play vehicles but the term is loosely defined (skateboards, roller skates/blades, etc...).

Although these "scooters" when unpowered would be considered a play vehicle, they are no longer unpowered. Tennessee classifies two-wheeled motorized vehicles into three categories.
  1. Motorcycles have an engine larger than 125cc and can reach an excess of 35 mph. License plate required.
  2. Motor-driven cycles legally defined as a scooter that has an engine with a cylinder capacity up to 125cc. License plate required.
  3. And lastly mopeds. Any two or three-wheeled vehicle with a 50cc capacity engine or smaller. Drivers license required.
These scooters are... A - 2 wheeled vehicles and B powered by a motor. This makes them a 2 wheeled motorized vehicle along the lines of a moped.

One thing that will impact is that since bicycles are considered on par with motor vehicles, many states prohibit their use on sidewalks over a certain age. To me it is a pet peeve. If you ride a bike, be on the road and obey laws.

I just think that since these devices bridge the gap between play vehicles and two wheel motorized vehicles they need to be addressed as such rather than lumped into existing areas.
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Old 03-12-19, 11:38 AM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
if you make me agree with you one more time, @JoeyBike, I am coming down to Nola and driving past you really close .....
If you want me to notice you, give me 3 feet of space. Otherwise you will just blend in with all the others.

Or use a turn signal BEFORE attempting a right hook on me.
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