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Five Boro Founder Killed by Hit and Run

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Five Boro Founder Killed by Hit and Run

Old 03-20-19, 08:59 AM
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Ronbo Fomby
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Five Boro Founder Killed by Hit and Run

Picked this up this morn.
RIP David
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Old 03-20-19, 09:50 AM
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Thanks for the details, link and commentary.
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Old 03-20-19, 12:02 PM
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Thanks for the link.

As the story says, "no matter how experienced and careful a bike rider is, cyclists in the New York area will continue to die and be hurt until governments at all levels take street and road safety seriously enough to build networks of protected bike lanes, design streets to operate at safe speeds and get problem drivers out from behind the wheel."

That obviously applies everywhere.
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Old 03-20-19, 12:45 PM
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Damn, what a shame.
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Old 03-21-19, 12:00 AM
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Cycle In Peace
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Old 03-21-19, 09:37 AM
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IF reasonable measures are taken in cities large and small, everywhere in this country (USA), such as: reducing or banning non-essential traffic from city centers 9 - 5 or 24/7; lowering city center speed limits to ~15 mph; revoking the operators licenses for DWI convictions or leaving the scene convictions, etc. If these things are done and enforced then a very expensive and possibly impossible infrastructure project of creating millions of miles of protected bikeway for the exclusive use of less than 1% of the population is eliminated.
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Old 03-21-19, 10:00 AM
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This sounds great: https://bicycledutch.wordpress.com/2...cling-figures/. Especially this :" The infrastructure the Dutch have at their disposal for all their cycling is phenomenal. The figures vary a little depending on the source, but there is currently at least 33,000 to 35,000 kilometres of dedicated cycling infrastructure. That does not include the road space where cycling takes place in the same space as private motor traffic. That is another 55,000 kilometres of streets and roads. Of all the Dutch urban streets 70% has a speed limit of 30 km/h. These streets are also traffic calmed. That makes “sharing” that road space very easy and safe.
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Old 03-21-19, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
IF reasonable measures are taken in cities large and small, everywhere in this country (USA), such as: reducing or banning non-essential traffic from city centers 9 - 5 or 24/7; lowering city center speed limits to ~15 mph; revoking the operators licenses for DWI convictions or leaving the scene convictions, etc. If these things are done and enforced then a very expensive and possibly impossible infrastructure project of creating millions of miles of protected bikeway for the exclusive use of less than 1% of the population is eliminated.
Rational thinking is the reasonable measure for ending discussion among sensible people about a requirement for an infrastructure project of creating millions of miles of protected bikeway for the exclusive use of less than 1% of the population.

Ideologues and college freshman may feel differently.
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Old 03-21-19, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
IF reasonable measures are taken in cities large and small, everywhere in this country (USA), such as: reducing or banning non-essential traffic from city centers 9 - 5 or 24/7; lowering city center speed limits to ~15 mph; revoking the operators licenses for DWI convictions or leaving the scene convictions, etc. If these things are done and enforced then a very expensive and possibly impossible infrastructure project of creating millions of miles of protected bikeway for the exclusive use of less than 1% of the population is eliminated.
@I-Like-To-Bike responded with perfect snark, (really, one of the finer sarcastic posts I've read here,) but I liked this post so much I wanted to re-repeat it.

Approach collisions the same way society and law enforcement dealt with drunk driving---get serious and enforce the danged laws. Penalize people so much that people would rather pay attention than risk stupid accidents. Jail people who use their vehicles as weapons, intentionally or inadvertently, id they then leave the scene. Act like curtailing collisions matter and lo--there will be fewer collisions.

Plenty of room on the road surface, but drivers have to be encouraged to share it---or afraid not to. I'll take either.
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Old 03-21-19, 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by mr_bill View Post
"He believed in doing it by the book..."
Yep, that'll get you killed.

"...and the importance of safety education for cyclists."
Nothing like setting the ultimate example for NOT doing it by the book. I hope his disciples take note.
.
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.
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Old 03-21-19, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
... lowering city center speed limits to ~15 mph;
How 'bout just enforcing existing speed limits! Around here SL+10mph doesn't get a second look. SL+15 may see some law enforcement interest, but only if the driver is doing other stupid dangerous stuff.
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Old 03-21-19, 05:51 PM
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@JoeyBike---do me a favorr and don't use some casualty to make your point.

You have no idea how this guy got hit, but he was hit and killed, and you are trying to make cheap internet points. Not cool.

This guy spent a lot of time and energy cycling and getting others into cycling, and helping others to cycle safely. Crap on the drivers that hit good cyclists, not the cyclists. Please.
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Old 03-21-19, 09:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
@JoeyBike---do me a favorr and don't use some casualty to make your point.
Ever noticed how most of the casualties posted here are cyclists doing exactly the "right" thing when they got hosed? It is my mission to plant the seed in the brain of all cyclists that doing the "right" thing is not always the "best" thing.

You have no idea how this guy got hit, but he was hit and killed, and you are trying to make cheap internet points. Not cool.
He doesn't care. And what if he could post from the grave? Perhaps I am doing him a service. One last safety tip. Use your HEAD, not a rule-book.

This guy spent a lot of time and energy cycling and getting others into cycling, and helping others to cycle safely. Crap on the drivers that hit good cyclists, not the cyclists. Please.
The streets are pretty much mayhem for all road users. One moment you are here, the next you are not. Over and over and over we see this here at A&S. Somebody here needs to shine a light on the fact that "doing everything by the book" does not change the world around you one iota. Cycling around motor vehicles is a dangerous, potentially deadly activity. A cyclist should do everything possible to slant the playing field into their favor. Someone who obeys all the rules getting clobbered illuminates a big spotlight that I just focus onto the fact that anything goes out there. If i gotta die in the saddle, let it be due to MY fault. MY miscalculation. My lapse. Not some distracted/drunk idiot behind the wheel of a tank.
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Old 03-21-19, 09:55 PM
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In a statement, Bike New York President & CEO Ken Podziba called Schlichting "one of the most disciplined bike riders we know," adding that his death illustrated that "no matter how experienced and careful a bike rider is, cyclists in the New York area will continue to die and be hurt until governments at all levels take street and road safety seriously enough to [1] build networks of protected bike lanes, [2] design streets to operate at safe speeds and [3] get problem drivers out from behind the wheel."

And while we're at it:



Meanwhile, if the most careful cyclist out there can get smacked following the rules, what chance do I have? While I wait for the world to produce a Bigfoot, unicorn, and a leprechaun, I shall do WHATEVER IT TAKES to stay off the grill of a motor vehicle using my own devices.
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Old 03-21-19, 10:54 PM
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RIP
The photo of the van clearly shows 2 things.
They were both looking directly at the morning sun.
The dent is all the way to the right corner, so he was riding FRAP. The lane was narrow some of the way at least.
I couldn't find the guardrail on Google view, but I think there is a sidewalk along most of the way. I would be on it those conditions.
Today I rode to the DQ and back. For a second I was looking right, being blinded doubly by the sun and the sun shining on a puddle.
Hi viz is likely a detriment in that case. Not that I would ever wear such.
.

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Old 03-21-19, 11:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Hoopdriver View Post
How 'bout just enforcing existing speed limits! Around here SL+10mph doesn't get a second look. SL+15 may see some law enforcement interest, but only if the driver is doing other stupid dangerous stuff.
Urban speed limits are usually 25mph. A few enlightened locales use 20 mph. It is simply not true that everyone does SL+ 10 or 15. That is simply not possible in most cities. If speed limits are lowered to 15 mph that's what most people will travel at and even 15 + ?? is better than 25 + ??. We need to get the word out that if you want to travel fast through town a car is not the way to do it.

The cyclist under discussion was hit outside the city center. Speed limits outside city centers can be anywhere from 35 mph to 45 mph to as much as 55 mph. What if REGARDLESS of the posted speed, an overtaking car had to slow to ~ 15 mph during the overtaking of a cyclist?! That's the law in some European cities. Once you have passed the cyclist you can hit the gas and resume whatever speed you were traveling at. Guaranteed if we had laws like that here (and enforced them) the subject cyclist would still be with us.

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Old 03-21-19, 11:50 PM
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Originally Posted by JoeyBike View Post
In a statement, Bike New York President & CEO Ken Podziba called Schlichting "one of the most disciplined bike riders we know," adding that his death illustrated that "no matter how experienced and careful a bike rider is, cyclists in the New York area will continue to die and be hurt until governments at all levels take street and road safety seriously enough to [1] build networks of protected bike lanes, [2] design streets to operate at safe speeds and [3] get problem drivers out from behind the wheel."
Joey, we need Universal Health Care or at the very least, Medicare For All; We need a $15/hr. minimum wage; We need Federally Mandated Rent Control and we probablly need a Basic Income subsistence program too. These are vital programs that would help all Americans live somewhat at a Middle Class Standard. Your list benefits only cyclists. Somewhat less than 12% of Americans are cyclists. Half of that might use their bikes everyday to commute. The rest, the tires of their bikes will never touch asphalt in anger. Explain to me like you would to a small child how we get our governments to build out that network of protected bike lanes, to cite only one item on your list. Senators and Representatives from time to time have floated bills banning bicycles from public roads for their own safety. None have made it past the Draft Resolution stage. If cyclists keep acting like spoiled, whiny, snowflakes there will come a backlash.
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Old 03-22-19, 01:35 AM
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JoeyBike, following the rules can get you killed, not following the rules can get you killed. Riding a bike on a road with cars can get you killed.

You have no idea what this guy was doing ... quite possibly he was doing everything You would do, and some inept driver paying more attention to the entertainment system or the cell phone slid a few feet over and clipped him. it's a War Zone out there, remember?

I object to your using this man's death ... and making wholly unsupported assumptions ... to advance your own agenda. Sometimes cyclists do everything right and still get hit. You have said so yourself many times. And yet, when this guy gets hit, you criticize him for doing stuff you decided to imagine he was doing?

Low class, friend, Insensitive and wholly inappropriate. You are essentially showing up at the funeral and calling the deceased an idiot ... so You can feel all superior about your riding skills.

Very poor form. make your points in some way which doesn't dishonor a person who worked for cycling safety ... something you Do Not do yourself, I notice.
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Old 03-22-19, 01:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
Joey, we need Universal Health Care or at the very least, Medicare For All; We need a $15/hr. minimum wage; We need Federally Mandated Rent Control and we probablly need a Basic Income subsistence program too. These are vital programs that would help all Americans live somewhat at a Middle Class Standard. Your list benefits only cyclists. Somewhat less than 12% of Americans are cyclists. Half of that might use their bikes everyday to commute. The rest, the tires of their bikes will never touch asphalt in anger. Explain to me like you would to a small child how we get our governments to build out that network of protected bike lanes, to cite only one item on your list. Senators and Representatives from time to time have floated bills banning bicycles from public roads for their own safety. None have made it past the Draft Resolution stage. If cyclists keep acting like spoiled, whiny, snowflakes there will come a backlash.
Surely you jest.....Who is going to pay for this?
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Old 03-22-19, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
Joey, we need Universal Health Care or at the very least, Medicare For All; We need a $15/hr. minimum wage; We need Federally Mandated Rent Control and we probablly need a Basic Income subsistence program too. These are vital programs that would help all Americans live somewhat at a Middle Class Standard. Your list benefits only cyclists. Somewhat less than 12% of Americans are cyclists. Half of that might use their bikes everyday to commute. The rest, the tires of their bikes will never touch asphalt in anger. Explain to me like you would to a small child how we get our governments to build out that network of protected bike lanes, to cite only one item on your list. Senators and Representatives from time to time have floated bills banning bicycles from public roads for their own safety. None have made it past the Draft Resolution stage. If cyclists keep acting like spoiled, whiny, snowflakes there will come a backlash.
Sorry, the message hidden in my post with the mythical characters was perhaps not clear. This is what I meant there. (BTW...I agree with many social program ideas)

My point was that "total" cycling safety is as real as unicorns and little Irish gnomes. And "better" safety is a long way off. Individual cyclists need to TAKE ACTION themselves TODAY given the facts on the ground and the situations they ride under. The world is a difficult place to change but WE can change ourselves and react to the situations in a moment. Don't sit around missing the point dreaming of some cycling utopia that may never come. It's a pot of gold under a rainbow with a unicorn peeing on it and Bigfoot doing an Irish jig next to it.

As I have said here about a million times, and it applies so well to the poor dude who got killed. He was, according to my readings, a highly experienced cyclist. To me, it looked like he was doing nothing wrong AT THAT MOMENT when he got killed - as far as the RULES of the road go. The "Rules of the Road" for cyclists do not cover anything outside of traffic laws in general. Here are the RULES that never get mentioned in handbooks:

1. LIMIT your exposure:

Our fellow cyclist in the obituary here here did exactly the opposite. He spent as much time as possible in the meat grinder according to the linked story. No matter how safe, lucky, and thoughtful any cyclist could be, maximizing exposure to danger is never a good thing. You may live a long, happy life, but you are tilting the odds against yourself.

2. Be mindful of MOTORIST HAZARDS:

The newly deceased, someone posted here, likely was riding into a rising sun along with the motorist who got him. How many deaths just reported here on A&S are likely related to motorists' vision hampered by looking directly into the rising or setting sun? Granted, if you MUST get to work on THAT road, then you just gotta do what you gotta do. But as a recreational cyclist you should give careful thought to the added danger of a low sun. Hell, I do this on car road trips. I don't want to be lined up with a bunch of A-holes on the Interstate doing 80mph around a bunch of blinded motorists. If I must travel into a setting sun in a car, I take low speed alternate routes when possible. Same with my bike. Or grab a bite to eat until the sun sets completely. This is called THINKING about SAFETY. It is not in the rule book.

"Death" roads should be avoided at peak motorist times. Yes, we all know roads that are white knuckle events at the best times. Don't ride them at rush hour or any time every motorist around you will have to react to you. This means that e.v.e.r.y. s.i.n.g.l.e. ONE OF THEM must SEE you. Sooner or later......

How many cyclists just blast off without any thought of these things.

3. TIME of day:

Motorist activity has a rhythm to it. Weekday rush hours between getting kids to school and others to work, most cities are mayhem between 7:30-9:00a.m. So don't schedule your pleasure ride at that time if those roads are affected. Locally to me some huge facilities, plants etc let out at 3pm. I would NEVER bike the highway leading away from those places at 3:15. Even if I survived it just wouldn't be fun and I would at the very least have soda cans hurled at me and rightly so. Only an idiot would do this and a few motorists would be happy to communicate that to me in various ways including PURPOSEFUL acts of close passes and tossed objects. Not endorsing this, but I wouldn't blame them.

Where I live evening traffic starts about 3:00p.m. when school lets out and builds all the way to nearly 6:00p.m. Yeah, I have to get home from work at this time but I choose my route VERY CAREFULLY. I even take a few one-way streets (contraflow - oh the horror) for a block or two to make certain that traffic heading out of the city isn't following me. This is also called THINKING. It is not in any rule book. Going contraflow on a quiet backstreet during rush hour allows me to enjoy ZERO motorists. Taking alternate routes brings us back to my first point: LIMIT YOUR EXPOSURE.

4. OBEYING every traffic law:

Perhaps the most dangerous tactic of all is blindly obeying ANY rules. I am not going into every detail as the info would fill a small book of "anti-rules" but I will share one of them.

In certain areas and on certain roadways (not all of them) it is safer to selectively and thoughtfully run red lights (where I live and commute). If I wait for every green light during rush hour I will have to interact and likely be overtaken by a couple hundred cars over my 5 mile commute. If I thoughtfully run the red lights I will be cycling in the GAPS created by those red lights behind me. Using this tactic I can often cover the same 5 mile distance without being overtaken by even ONE CAR. Not one! This also brings us back to my first point LIMIT YOUR EXPOSURE!

In conclusion, "limit your exposure" does not necessarily mean "don't ride your bike", it means ride smart and do WHATEVER IT TAKES to get there in one piece. Do not blindly follow rules written by people who don't ride bikes. I have little respect for people who don't, or can't think for themselves and act in their best interests.

Last edited by JoeyBike; 03-22-19 at 10:01 AM.
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Old 03-22-19, 10:43 AM
  #22  
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Mr. @JoeyBike---we know your agenda. Using this hook to hang them was distasteful.

People have discussed your ideas many times. Some work some don't and some work in limited fashion (for instance, cycle commuters pretty much have to go to work when the work day begins, regardless of road conditions, and have to ride roads that actually take them to work.)

The point here is that this particular cyclist undoubtedly had heard just about every iteration of "Perfect Safe Cycling Rules" and certainly rode as safely as possible---and certainly knew when to break the rules. (Think about it--no one is going to stand up at some guy's funeral and say "He knew when to break the law.") This was someone doing everything as right as possible who still got hit.

This is one of the few places where you and I agree---there is no such thing as "safe cycling." One stupid driver can lose attention for a split second and at car-traffic speeds, that can put the car on top of the cyclist before anyone can react. You could be riding at high noon in hi-viz with ten head- and tail lights following a truck pulling a six-foot-square lighted sign saying "Watch out for the cyclist" and still get hit.

That first post of yours edged dangerously close to "blaming the victim," which is sometimes accurate but usually is not ... and in this case, doing it just to create a springboard to go off on a rant of your own was in poor taste.

I am glad we have gotten past there without undue friction.

IMO.
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Old 03-22-19, 11:06 AM
  #23  
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I've ridden 5BBC several times when I lived on Long Island. Always a good time.

May God have mercy on his soul, and ours.


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Old 03-24-19, 06:00 AM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by JoeyBike View Post
Sorry, the message hidden in my post with the mythical characters was perhaps not clear. This is what I meant there. (BTW...I agree with many social program ideas)

My point was that "total" cycling safety is as real as unicorns and little Irish gnomes. And "better" safety is a long way off. Individual cyclists need to TAKE ACTION themselves TODAY given the facts on the ground and the situations they ride under. The world is a difficult place to change but WE can change ourselves and react to the situations in a moment. Don't sit around missing the point dreaming of some cycling utopia that may never come. It's a pot of gold under a rainbow with a unicorn peeing on it and Bigfoot doing an Irish jig next to it.

As I have said here about a million times, and it applies so well to the poor dude who got killed. He was, according to my readings, a highly experienced cyclist. To me, it looked like he was doing nothing wrong AT THAT MOMENT when he got killed - as far as the RULES of the road go. The "Rules of the Road" for cyclists do not cover anything outside of traffic laws in general. Here are the RULES that never get mentioned in handbooks:

1.
2. Be mindful of MOTORIST HAZARDS:

The newly deceased, someone posted here, likely was riding into a rising sun along with the motorist who got him. How many deaths just reported here on A&S are likely related to motorists' vision hampered by looking directly into the rising or setting sun? .
This took place nearly 2 hours after sunrise. The sun is truly challenging for about 30 minutes after sunrise or 30 minutes before sunset, and that's being liberal. Now if a motorist wants to use it as an excuse, its very presence in the sky can be used as an excuse anytime between sunrise and sunset.
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Old 03-24-19, 07:24 AM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
Urban speed limits are usually 25mph. A few enlightened locales use 20 mph. It is simply not true that everyone does SL+ 10 or 15.
You are correct that "everyone" does not significantly exceed the SL; however many do. A recent speed study in my city show that it is common for 75% of drivers to exceed the posted limit (25mph), 25% by 10mph and 10% by 15mph. My point was that posted limits are not enforced so enlightenment (i.e. posting a 20mph limit) is meaningless without compulsion to comply.
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