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Assisting a down cyclist when first-responders are already on site?

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Assisting a down cyclist when first-responders are already on site?

Old 05-15-19, 04:17 AM
  #101  
livedarklions
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Originally Posted by Chris0516 View Post
Really cute, NOT.

When I had a bike accident in 2010, in DC near the National Cathedral, sure the DC Fire Department got to the scene. Oddly enough, the U.S. Secret Service got there first. They asked me the very questions you would not want ANYONE asking you. The U.S. Secret Service DID NOT interfere with the procedures of the DC Fire Department. They did them a favor.

But I guess you are just going to think, I am 'full of hot air'. That what I described above, never happened.

Different scenario. Secret Service was there before the first responders. Seriously, do you have any idea at all what this thread is about? You said you've read it, but you clearly don't understand it.

I would fully expect that someone who was helping me before the fd arrived would offer to assist me in getting in touch with help including loved ones, but if a stranger comes up to me after I already have professional help and tries to insert themselves, I would find that extremely suspicious.

Literally no one in this thread is talking about what to do if you're there before the first responders, so what the Secret Service guys did is totally irrelevant to this thread. Glad you got help, but resist your impulse to pay it forward if the cyclist is already receiving professional help.

Oh, and btw, the Secret Service would hardly be the anonymous stranger you would be at a roadside, so even in the first guy on the scene scenario, your example is really beside the point.

Last edited by livedarklions; 05-15-19 at 04:25 AM.
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Old 05-15-19, 05:14 AM
  #102  
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Originally Posted by Chris0516 View Post
Really cute, NOT.

When I had a bike accident in 2010, in DC near the National Cathedral, sure the DC Fire Department got to the scene. Oddly enough, the U.S. Secret Service got there first. They asked me the very questions you would not want ANYONE asking you. The U.S. Secret Service DID NOT interfere with the procedures of the DC Fire Department. They did them a favor.
Trained law enforcement and a random cyclist are two very different things.
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Old 05-15-19, 08:40 PM
  #103  
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The charge for doing what the OP briefly considered, than wisely thought better of, is "Obstructing Governmental Administration" in my jurisdiction. It's NYS PL 195.05. https://codes.findlaw.com/ny/penal-l...ct-195-05.html
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Old 05-15-19, 11:59 PM
  #104  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
Different scenario. Secret Service was there before the first responders. Seriously, do you have any idea at all what this thread is about? You said you've read it, but you clearly don't understand it.
I know full well what the thread is about.
Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
I would fully expect that someone who was helping me before the fd arrived would offer to assist me in getting in touch with help including loved ones, but if a stranger comes up to me after I already have professional help and tries to insert themselves, I would find that extremely suspicious.
If you think it is outrightly suspicious, after the FD arrives. It could be just as suspicious, before they arrive. Cumulatively, That amounts to, NO ONE BUT the FD should help you. Whereever you are. I guess Good Samaritans are a mystery notion to you.
Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
Literally no one in this thread is talking about what to do if you're there before the first responders, so what the Secret Service guys did is totally irrelevant to this thread. Glad you got help, but resist your impulse to pay it forward if the cyclist is already receiving professional help.
Secret Service dress like strangers. But you won't acknowledge it.
Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
Oh, and btw, the Secret Service would hardly be the anonymous stranger you would be at a roadside, so even in the first guy on the scene scenario, your example is really beside the point.
BTW, They don't dress in a uniform on purpose. In order to look like an anonymous stranger. That is why they are the secret service.
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Old 05-16-19, 02:47 AM
  #105  
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It's a valid concern. When I've been hit by cars (twice in 17 years) I appreciated witnesses coming forward to offer statements on my behalf to confirm the other parties were at fault.

After Wednesday evening's Ride of Silence a few of us noticed a car heading toward us the wrong way on a one way street. My handlebar video camera was still running. I commented on the wrong-way driver and a couple of seconds later we heard a crash in the intersection behind us. Sure enough, the errant driver blew through a busy intersection and collided with another vehicle.

I spoke with the victim, who was not at fault in any way, and urged him to get a medical checkup. I described what I'd done wrong the first time and right the second time with my own injuries. And I sent him a Dropbox link to the video from my bike camera to confirm that he was not at fault and the other driver was going the wrong way.

One of my friends is a paramedic for our city, off duty but riding bikes with us. She did the initial exams of both drivers while we waited for the on-duty emergency response crews. While I have a background in emergency medicine it's been many years so I just stayed on the sidewalk out of the way. There were plenty of qualified folks available. Best thing I could do was encourage the victim to take care of his own best interests.
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Old 05-16-19, 04:02 AM
  #106  
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Originally Posted by Chris0516 View Post
I know full well what the thread is about.

If you think it is outrightly suspicious, after the FD arrives. It could be just as suspicious, before they arrive. Cumulatively, That amounts to, NO ONE BUT the FD should help you. Whereever you are. I guess Good Samaritans are a mystery notion to you.

Secret Service dress like strangers. But you won't acknowledge it.

BTW, They don't dress in a uniform on purpose. In order to look like an anonymous stranger. That is why they are the secret service.
Wow, I don't think I've ever seen a bigger straw man convention in my life.

Yes, accepting help from strangers always carry risks because posing as a good Samaritan is something some bad people do. Even if I am injured, if I have any capacity to control my behavior, I am going to be balancing the risks of accepting the help vs. the costs of not accepting it. If the stranger is the only one on the scene and I am badly hurt, I'm going to accept the help because I really don't have much alternative. I don't know if this person is out to rob me or worse, whether they have the intelligence or skills to be of any use, or if they're a sadist who thinks it's funny to pretend to help and just do nothing. I'm going to accept their offer of help on face value because I need it, and I probably wouldn't want to believe that someone would take advantage of me in that situation.

Once the EMTs are there, it just isn't the same situation from my viewpoint or from the alleged good Samaritan. And no, at that point, my suspicions of the stranger's motives for stepping in when not needed are going to outweigh any benefit I'm going to get from accepting his help. The EMTs are likely to tell him to get away as well, and there are lots of good reasons for that.

I don't bloody care about whether you could or couldn't identify the Secret Service employees across the street from Secret Service headquarters. That was your example, not mine. If they are not readily identifiable, then obviously it's exactly the same calculation as accepting help from a stranger, and I really have no idea why you mentioned their agency affiliation.

Long story short, stepping in when there isn't professional help around is something good people do, so the odds that the good Samaritan in that situation is legit are pretty good. Stepping in when their help isn't really needed is consistent with the behavior of crooks, stupid people and crazy people, so no thanks.

Go ahead and mangle my points this one. I'm probably not going to bother reading your response. Arguing by putting silly words into someone's mouth is rather tiresome, and I don't think anyone is taking you seriously at this point.
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Old 05-16-19, 04:09 AM
  #107  
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Originally Posted by canklecat View Post
It's a valid concern. When I've been hit by cars (twice in 17 years) I appreciated witnesses coming forward to offer statements on my behalf to confirm the other parties were at fault. .
Yes, but the premise here was a situation where the person deciding whether to step forward was not a witness.
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Old 06-11-19, 03:32 AM
  #108  
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Exactly! As a retired cop/paramedic, thereís nothing more annoying than someone wanting to inject themselves into situations where they have nothing meaningful to offer. Generally well meaning, but if youíre not part of the solution, youíre part of the problem. Stay back and suck on your GU...

However, if youíre first on the scene, of course itís ok to assist to the extent of your abilities, but when the first responders arrive get out of the way and keep quiet until questioned or asked to assist.

Last edited by Dr.Lou; 06-11-19 at 03:39 AM.
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