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Bontrager WaveCel Helmet - Improved safety claims questioned

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Bontrager WaveCel Helmet - Improved safety claims questioned

Old 05-22-19, 09:44 AM
  #51  
jim_pridx
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
I liked your post for agreement, but what happened to you and your wife sucked, and "like" seems a bit of a strange reaction to it so I feel a need to clarify.

Did you get back on the tandem with her later? I could see how that kind of experience could ruin it for you.
Well, we didn't have any reservations about riding again. The experience did indeed suck - big time - but I guess we just looked at is as a one-time misfortune and never looked back. If I remember correctly, we were riding again within a few days. The only damage to the bike was a pretzeled front wheel, and it just so happened that a friend who lived near the site of the accident gave us a ride home in his pickup truck. In 34 years of tandeming together, it's the only crash we've ever experienced. I just hope it remains that way.
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Old 05-22-19, 09:50 AM
  #52  
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Awesome good luck and amazing fortitude, Mr. and Mrs. @jim_pridx.
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Old 05-22-19, 09:53 AM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
Awesome good luck and amazing fortitude, Mr. and Mrs. @jim_pridx.
Hey, thanks Mr. Maelochs!
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Old 05-22-19, 10:11 AM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by jim_pridx View Post
Well, we didn't have any reservations about riding again. The experience did indeed suck - big time - but I guess we just looked at is as a one-time misfortune and never looked back. If I remember correctly, we were riding again within a few days. The only damage to the bike was a pretzeled front wheel, and it just so happened that a friend who lived near the site of the accident gave us a ride home in his pickup truck. In 34 years of tandeming together, it's the only crash we've ever experienced. I just hope it remains that way.
34 years?! That's an amazing story and an incredible relationship! There might be a book in there (the 34 years, not the damn dog).
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Old 05-22-19, 10:15 AM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
34 years?! That's an amazing story and an incredible relationship! There might be a book in there (the 34 years, not the damn dog).
Thanks! We've actually been married for nearly 45 years. Once we rode our first tandem, though, we just knew it was for us. And yeah.....that "damn dog" is another story. BTW, the dog didn't survive the crash.
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Old 05-22-19, 10:25 AM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by jim_pridx View Post
Thanks! We've actually been married for nearly 45 years. Once we rode our first tandem, though, we just knew it was for us. And yeah.....that "damn dog" is another story. BTW, the dog didn't survive the crash.
I feel bad for the dog but that's on the owner. He must've treated him badly to get him that mean.

So after riding like that for 34 years, do you finish each other's hand signals?
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Old 05-22-19, 10:46 AM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
LOL. ...

Statistically we are all more likely to die from slipping in the bathtub and hitting our heads---where none of us wear helmets and would consider it ridiculous. See what I mean?
I rarely take baths. My shower stall is small enough that I have not figured out how I would fall and hit my head hard. But I have hit my helmet on pavement several times. A couple might not have been hits if I was bare-headed, but at least two would have happened without helmets and I would not have lived through the first. Unless I change my bathing habits, dying from a bike crash head injury is the more likely to happen.

Ben
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Old 05-22-19, 11:05 AM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney View Post
I rarely take baths. My shower stall is small enough that I have not figured out how I would fall and hit my head hard. But I have hit my helmet on pavement several times. A couple might not have been hits if I was bare-headed, but at least two would have happened without helmets and I would not have lived through the first. Unless I change my bathing habits, dying from a bike crash head injury is the more likely to happen.

Ben
Not how statistics work.

But i frankly don't care who wears what kind of helmet where or why. if it works for you .... great, because surely it is a purely and totally your business as whatever else you wear either in the shower or while riding or at any other time.

P.S.: I hope you wear a helmet when showering or bathing in other people's bathtubs.

Insurance claims, you know ....
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Old 05-22-19, 11:07 AM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by jim_pridx View Post
Thanks! We've actually been married for nearly 45 years. Once we rode our first tandem, though, we just knew it was for us.
So ... the title of the book would be, "How riding a tandem has been very, very slowly killing our marriage?" (ref. jokes about tandems, you understand ... )
Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
So after riding like that for 34 years, do you finish each other's hand signals?
Perfect.
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Old 05-22-19, 11:41 AM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
So ... the title of the book would be, "How riding a tandem has been very, very slowly killing our marriage?" (ref. jokes about tandems, you understand ... )
Haha! Yeah, there's probably some truth in that title when considering that our average cruising speed has diminished significantly since we first started riding together. Of course, age isn't necessarily in our favor, nor are the few extra pounds we haul around these days.......LOL. Seriously, though, riding the tandem is something that has probably helped in keeping us together.

Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
I feel bad for the dog but that's on the owner. He must've treated him badly to get him that mean.

So after riding like that for 34 years, do you finish each other's hand signals?
Well, when we met with a judge during one of the hearings, the owner's wife actually came out and admitted that they had trained the dog to attack. Whether they abused the dog or not, I wouldn't know. The fact that it was running loose at the time while playing with kids probably played a big factor in attacking us.Still, it never flinched when we sprayed our water bottles at him. It was like he was on a mission to bring us down regardless of the price he had to pay for it. I've never seen anything like it from any other dog.

Funny, but my wife seems to have acquired a sense for every move I'm about to make on the bike......everything from hand signals to shifting to braking and so on......all without saying a word. I can't imagine having a better stoker on board. Frankly, I'd be horrible sitting back there.......LOL.
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Old 05-22-19, 11:45 AM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by AlmostTrick View Post
Does this mean it's not going to change cycling forever?
See video starting at 2:15


https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/f...e/x/20638628#/
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Old 05-22-19, 12:45 PM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
Instant Stay Puft Marshmallow Man. Just add impact.
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Old 05-22-19, 12:48 PM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by jim_pridx View Post
Once we rode our first tandem, though, we just knew it was for us.
Not to derail a thread but it was the same for my wife and me. We went less than a mile and knew that it was going to turn out well. My wife is visually impaired and it gave her a chance to enjoy one of my activities we me.

Back to the regularly scheduled helmet thread...
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Old 05-22-19, 01:44 PM
  #64  
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My wife and I rode one for less than a mile and almost got divorced. I kid you not. (Yes, I know the old saying...)
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Old 05-22-19, 10:12 PM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
Can you please follow up with how you find riding with the helmet once it's been on your head a few miles?
Well, I wore the Wavecel Specter on tonight's 20-mile ride, and it was actually quite comfortable. While it's a bit heavier than my old Specialized helmet, I really didn't notice the extra weight while riding. With 72-degree temps and high humidity tonight, I wouldn't normally need all that much ventilation, but I immediately noticed that the Wavecel Specter had considerably less ventilation than my Specialized helmet. Even though Bontrager makes the claim that the Wavecel material and how it's formed makes for a well-ventilated helmet, I really think I'd find this helmet to be too warm on hot days..Even with tonight's ride I would've preferred to have had better ventilation. All in all, though, it's a pretty decent helmet, but if I were to buy again, I think I would opt for a helmet with MIPS and better air flow. I honestly didn't realize how much that meant to me before wearing the Wavecel tonight.
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Old 05-22-19, 10:26 PM
  #66  
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I wore my (mountain bike version) Wavecel for the first time in Utah, where it is a lot less humid. I did not notice any problems due to ventilation, and this was before I had heard it could be an issue.

So maybe it is not so much the heat, but the humidity...
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Old 05-23-19, 07:40 AM
  #67  
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Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post

Statistically we are all more likely to die from slipping in the bathtub and hitting our heads---where none of us wear helmets and would consider it ridiculous. See what I mean?
Do you have a study that supports this claim?
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Old 05-23-19, 08:27 AM
  #68  
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Originally Posted by wgscott View Post
I wore my (mountain bike version) Wavecel for the first time in Utah, where it is a lot less humid. I did not notice any problems due to ventilation, and this was before I had heard it could be an issue.

So maybe it is not so much the heat, but the humidity...
Yeah, I'm sure the humidity plays a significant factor. I actually thought that the Wisconsin weather would suit this helmet well, but I'm not sure I'll be enjoying it much once we start hitting 80 and 90 degree temps with high humidity. It's sort of odd for me to even be thinking about ventilation in a helmet, for I never really needed to consider it before.
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Old 05-23-19, 08:33 AM
  #69  
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Originally Posted by jon c. View Post
Do you have a study that supports this claim?
Instead of aksing ... if you realy wanted to know, you could have asked Google, like I did.

https://www.rospa.com/home-safety/ad...s-and-figures/
https://www.theguardian.com/society/...isk-nhs-doctor
https://www.blslawyers.com/bathtub-shower-falls.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/16/h...h/16stats.html
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Old 05-23-19, 09:06 AM
  #70  
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Originally Posted by jim_pridx View Post
Yeah, I'm sure the humidity plays a significant factor. I actually thought that the Wisconsin weather would suit this helmet well, but I'm not sure I'll be enjoying it much once we start hitting 80 and 90 degree temps with high humidity. It's sort of odd for me to even be thinking about ventilation in a helmet, for I never really needed to consider it before.
Mid-80s, humid, and comfortable.

-mr. bill
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Old 05-23-19, 10:34 AM
  #71  
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Those are all about injuries, not deaths. Your claim was "die from"

I googled and got the opposite result, but it specified drowning in tub, not from head injury, and doesn't sort what killed the cyclists. It looks like you're about 10 times more likely to get killed on a bike than drown in the bath tub.

Your odds of being killed in a car are way higher than either of these, BTW.

If you can find better statistics, feel free. I'm kind of busy today.

https://danger.mongabay.com/injury_death.htm
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Old 05-23-19, 11:08 AM
  #72  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
Those are all about injuries, not deaths. Your claim was "die from"

I googled and got the opposite result, but it specified drowning in tub, not from head injury, and doesn't sort what killed the cyclists. It looks like you're about 10 times more likely to get killed on a bike than drown in the bath tub.

Your odds of being killed in a car are way higher than either of these, BTW.

If you can find better statistics, feel free. I'm kind of busy today.

https://danger.mongabay.com/injury_death.htm
Ummmm .... hmmmm yeah, not sure why you thought wearing a helmet would impact drowning deaths. If you look at what actually hurts and kills people in each of the setting (cyclists, 740 total deaths nationwide) and the number killed in falls ... yes, you are twice as likely to get killed while cycling as to drown in a bathtub (probably because most people take showers) ... where you fo=got ten times as likely .... I'd like to see their math ..... but falls in the bathroom

If you want to cherry-pick---let's compare how many drowned in the bathroom versus how many drowned on a bicycle.

Further ... we needn't consider only death. If you get TBI while riding or falling in the shower and whacking your head on the toilet, you are severely injured either way. But in any case, my original statement (meant to be humorous, but i realize you probably can't do humor (after seeing the MUP law debate) ) was "Statistically we are all more likely to die from slipping in the bathtub and hitting our heads..."

Anyway ...you refute everything I posted, and I will consider going deeper into what you posted. So far, it doesn't seem any of the data you posted directly correlates with the topic at hand. Why you went for drowning .... well, it's a free country.

And please ... never lighten up. We need the drama here.
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Old 05-23-19, 12:29 PM
  #73  
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Not how statistics work.

A lot of stuff there on home accidents. Nothing that proves your contention.
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Old 05-23-19, 01:03 PM
  #74  
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Well, go and get the proof, if it matters to you.

If it doesn't, don't expect me to work for you. Or pay me.
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Old 05-23-19, 01:55 PM
  #75  
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Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
Ummmm .... hmmmm yeah, not sure why you thought wearing a helmet would impact drowning deaths. If you look at what actually hurts and kills people in each of the setting (cyclists, 740 total deaths nationwide) and the number killed in falls ... yes, you are twice as likely to get killed while cycling as to drown in a bathtub (probably because most people take showers) ... where you fo=got ten times as likely .... I'd like to see their math ..... but falls in the bathroom.



If you want to cherry-pick---let's compare how many drowned in the bathroom versus how many drowned on a bicycle.

Further ... we needn't consider only death. If you get TBI while riding or falling in the shower and whacking your head on the toilet, you are severely injured either way. But in any case, my original statement (meant to be humorous, but i realize you probably can't do humor (after seeing the MUP law debate) ) was "Statistically we are all more likely to die from slipping in the bathtub and hitting our heads..."

Anyway ...you refute everything I posted, and I will consider going deeper into what you posted. So far, it doesn't seem any of the data you posted directly correlates with the topic at hand. Why you went for drowning .... well, it's a free country.

And please ... never lighten up. We need the drama here.
Whatevs...

I didn't care to refute anything, just pointed out that you posted a bunch of stuff that doesn't support your claim, and you smart-alecked something about googling.

Actually, most tub deaths are from drowning after losing consciousness, so bonk on the head then drowning is a lot more probable than dying directly from the blow to the head. If you can find a database online that's so fine-grained that you can determine the annual number of "deaths by head injury received in bathtub or shower fall", knock yourself out (pun intended).

As to whether injuries or deaths are the relevant measure, you set those terms, not me: "Statistically we are all more likely to die from slipping in the bathtub and hitting our heads---where none of us wear helmets and would consider it ridiculous. See what I mean?" You made a statement that claimed to be based on statistics, but now you can't produce those statistics. If you were serious about lightening up, you could just admit you made it up instead of lashing out at everyone.

I find it incredibly amusing that you of all people would accuse someone of being too intense and over-dramatic.

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