Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Advocacy & Safety
Reload this Page >

A very interesting article - driver /cyclist crashes

Advocacy & Safety Cyclists should expect and demand safe accommodation on every public road, just as do all other users. Discuss your bicycle advocacy and safety concerns here.

A very interesting article - driver /cyclist crashes

Old 05-13-19, 03:25 PM
  #1  
forresterace 
Senior Cyclist
Thread Starter
 
forresterace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Mount Albert, Ontario
Posts: 178

Bikes: 1990 Norco Bushpilot shopping bike, 1988 Fiori Italia, 1990 Fiori Firenze)

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
A very interesting article - driver /cyclist crashes

https://www.outsideonline.com/239295...tting-cyclists
forresterace is offline  
Old 05-14-19, 04:31 AM
  #2  
Paul Barnard
For The Fun of It
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Louisissippi Coast
Posts: 3,826

Bikes: Lynskey Backroad, Litespeed T6, Lynskey MT29, Burley Duet

Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 949 Post(s)
Liked 83 Times in 50 Posts
I found this interesting right out of the gate.

After signaling with her arm, she started to turn left onto North 65th Avenue. Midturn, “I bounced off the grill of a brand-new Ford F-150,” she recalled.

It seems she skipped a critical safety step.
Paul Barnard is offline  
Likes For Paul Barnard:
Old 05-14-19, 04:56 AM
  #3  
bakerjw
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: NE Tennessee
Posts: 784

Bikes: Giant TCR/Surly Karate Monkey/Foundry FireTower/Curtlo Tandem

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 128 Post(s)
Liked 48 Times in 36 Posts
I am curious, what step did she miss? According to the article, she looked back 2 times.
"As Willerton recalled, after looking behind her, she signaled, moved left into the traffic lane, signaled and looked again, and started her turn when Gray hit her as he tried to pass on the left."

I thought it a well written article and gives us some focal points when dealing with cycling accidents.
One is with law enforcement. When we are targeted or hit by a car, bit by a dog, etc... they are the ones that we need on our side.
Another is with the media. Call them out when they misreport a story or throw anti-cycling bias into a story.
And lastly, we need to pressure DAs to charge accidents with injuries and fatalities as serious matters.
bakerjw is offline  
Old 05-14-19, 05:27 AM
  #4  
Lemond1985
Sophomore Member
 
Lemond1985's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 1,419
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 789 Post(s)
Liked 150 Times in 108 Posts
She should have looked a third time?

JUDGE: "I would note for the record, that the defendant's pickup truck is almost as tall as MY pickup truck. He clearly couldn't see the young lady, case dismissed."
Lemond1985 is offline  
Likes For Lemond1985:
Old 05-14-19, 07:46 AM
  #5  
mr_bill
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 3,436
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1413 Post(s)
Liked 31 Times in 29 Posts
Originally Posted by Paul Barnard View Post
I found this interesting right out of the gate.

After signaling with her arm, she started to turn left onto North 65th Avenue. Midturn, “I bounced off the grill of a brand-new Ford F-150,” she recalled.

It seems she skipped a critical safety step.
I found this far more interesting. And when replies "victim-blame or fail to convey the larger context in which these crashes take place, they do deep injustice to the victims and the conversation about road safety in general."

BTW, some "larger context."

-mr. bill

Last edited by mr_bill; 05-14-19 at 07:49 AM.
mr_bill is offline  
Old 05-14-19, 11:10 AM
  #6  
livedarklions
Je suis Snap Motomag
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 3,834

Bikes: Trek FX 3; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; "Motobecane" Fantom CX

Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1925 Post(s)
Liked 444 Times in 264 Posts
I'm not sure I agree that "crash" is somehow more appropriate than "accident". The word crash conveys nothing about responsibility or intentions at all, waves crash on the shore, meteors crash into the ground.

I also think that the linguistic niceties are shaped by attitudes, and not so much the other way around.

I am firmly convinced at this point that the key to changing attitudes in this area is to get more people bicycling, and this hyper-focus on discussing individual accidents works against that by continually making the activity sound more dangerous than it is.
livedarklions is offline  
Old 05-14-19, 03:22 PM
  #7  
Paul Barnard
For The Fun of It
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Louisissippi Coast
Posts: 3,826

Bikes: Lynskey Backroad, Litespeed T6, Lynskey MT29, Burley Duet

Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 949 Post(s)
Liked 83 Times in 50 Posts
Originally Posted by bakerjw View Post
I am curious, what step did she miss? According to the article, she looked back 2 times.
"As Willerton recalled, after looking behind her, she signaled, moved left into the traffic lane, signaled and looked again, and started her turn when Gray hit her as he tried to pass on the left."

I thought it a well written article and gives us some focal points when dealing with cycling accidents.
One is with law enforcement. When we are targeted or hit by a car, bit by a dog, etc... they are the ones that we need on our side.
Another is with the media. Call them out when they misreport a story or throw anti-cycling bias into a story.
And lastly, we need to pressure DAs to charge accidents with injuries and fatalities as serious matters.
She overlooked the part where she made sure nobody was coming. Unless I missed it the article didn't tell us where she was on the roadway before she made her turn. I would assume she was on the shoulder before she moved into the traffic lane. I also wonder how a truck can materialize out of nowhere. For the driver to be charged, I would assume there was compelling evidence, but the article complaining about bad reporting and scanty details was devoid of enough details for me to understand what happened. I'll allow that I am having comprehension issues, so feel free to clear me up if you are picking up something I am missing.

Last edited by Paul Barnard; 05-15-19 at 09:02 AM.
Paul Barnard is offline  
Old 05-14-19, 03:51 PM
  #8  
bakerjw
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: NE Tennessee
Posts: 784

Bikes: Giant TCR/Surly Karate Monkey/Foundry FireTower/Curtlo Tandem

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 128 Post(s)
Liked 48 Times in 36 Posts
I was just curious if I was missing something. The road, according to the article, does have a bike lane and she was moving out of that into the lane. I know a lot of people who ride with earbuds in and listen to music, not me though. I am keenly listening to traffic when I ride.
bakerjw is offline  
Old 05-14-19, 04:03 PM
  #9  
UniChris
Senior Member
 
UniChris's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: NYC
Posts: 797

Bikes: 36" Unicycle

Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 348 Post(s)
Liked 62 Times in 54 Posts
I don't have any information beyond the links, but now that I've seen the picture that shows no central divider, my uninformed suspicion is that the cyclist sounds to have been making a vehicular left turn after well establishing herself in the travel lane, but that rather than mentally processing her as a left-turning vehicle the pickup driver may have seen her as cyclist "riding too far out in the road" and setup to pass her at lest partially in the opposing lane. I could even imagine someone accelerating after reaching the decision that they were "passing".

If the cyclist were a car signaling a turn and had achieved position in the travel lane with reasonable time/space, the pickup driver would be clearly at fault. Since a bike acting as a vehicle is also a vehicle, that conclusion would stand.

It's likely however that she either didn't realize he was as close behind as he was, or didn't realize how fast he was moving (speed limit was 50, probably more in practice), and so setup a situation where her safety was more entrusted to another party's identification of her intention and subsequent reaction than perhaps intended.

Last edited by UniChris; 05-14-19 at 04:07 PM.
UniChris is offline  
Old 05-14-19, 04:05 PM
  #10  
Lemond1985
Sophomore Member
 
Lemond1985's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 1,419
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 789 Post(s)
Liked 150 Times in 108 Posts
after looking behind her, she signaled, moved left into the traffic lane, signaled and looked again,
Playing Devil's Advocate here, honestly, I see someone on a bike signal their turn about once every 2-3 years. And with all of this "looking", what good did it do her, if she didn't see an approaching F150? Looking =/= Seeing?
Lemond1985 is offline  
Old 05-14-19, 06:39 PM
  #11  
Maelochs
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 11,498

Bikes: 2015 Workswell 066, 2014 Dawes Sheila, 1983 Cannondale 500, 1984 Raleigh Olympian, 2007 Cannondale Rize 4, 2017 Fuji Sportif 1 LE

Mentioned: 136 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5449 Post(s)
Liked 115 Times in 76 Posts
I signal all my turns if there is a car anywhere around and sometimes when not .... survival is an instinct I possess.

From he description I would GUESS that the situation unfolded the way @UniChris described it---she was in the lane and preparing to turn while the guy behind didn't realize she was turning and decided to pass on the left. She might have been aware that there was a vehicle approaching from the rear, but if she had been signalling and had taken the lane, she wouldn't have expected the vehicle to drive into the other lane to pass her.

Regardless of how we pose here, none of us are "on" 100 percent of the time. usually we have time or space to catch ourselves before a small slip becomes a major impact. She might not have taken that one look back just before turning, seeing as she had been signalling and had taken the lane ... but the guy in truck probably wasn't paying attention to her signal.
Maelochs is offline  
Old 05-15-19, 05:26 AM
  #12  
mcours2006
Senior Member
 
mcours2006's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Toronto, CANADA
Posts: 5,675

Bikes: Giant Rapid, Bianchi Advantage, Specialized Roubaix, 1985 Gardin Quatro, Norco Threshold, Raleigh Serengheti MTB

Mentioned: 44 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1720 Post(s)
Liked 39 Times in 22 Posts
If the truck driver wasn't paying attention or worse, distracted by his phone, well, it wouldn't have mattered what she did.

I've encountered scenarios like that before where there's no left turn lane and I need to turn left, and there's traffic coming from behind. I have taken the lane and signaled if the traffic isn't moving too fast, but I've also waited on the right to let through traffic go and wait for a gap to make the left turn if it is moving too fast. If the speed limit was 50 mph, I might have waited on the gap.
mcours2006 is offline  
Old 05-15-19, 06:05 AM
  #13  
Lemond1985
Sophomore Member
 
Lemond1985's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 1,419
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 789 Post(s)
Liked 150 Times in 108 Posts
If the truck driver wasn't paying attention or worse, distracted by his phone, well, it wouldn't have mattered what she did.
Yeah, why even bother looking back, or signalling. If they're gonna hit ya, they're gonna hit ya, right?

I suppose she could have noticed, "Hey this guy isn't slowing down. Abort turn, abort!" I need to do that almost every day, if I see someone barrelling toward me and am not sure if they saw me, I assume they didn't see me, and get out of the way. What is the point of even looking back, if you are not gonna act on what you see? Or do such an inept job of looking back, that you don't see the car that ultimately hits you. That's not an excuse, it's borderline negligence.
Lemond1985 is offline  
Old 05-15-19, 06:41 AM
  #14  
Maelochs
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 11,498

Bikes: 2015 Workswell 066, 2014 Dawes Sheila, 1983 Cannondale 500, 1984 Raleigh Olympian, 2007 Cannondale Rize 4, 2017 Fuji Sportif 1 LE

Mentioned: 136 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5449 Post(s)
Liked 115 Times in 76 Posts
This takes us to a very fine line between assigning blame to a person who Clearly committed an illegal and very dangerous and damaging bit of driving, and a person who may or may not have done everything right. Because no ne of us were there, it is impossible to say.

Yes, I like to think i would have seen the car coming, realized that it wasn't slowing, and tried to head back towards the right, but ... I also like to think that the car wouldn't suddenly accelerate just as I banked left, because the driver didn't know I was turning and chose that moment to make his move. (I have seen it happen at some of the several 4-way stop signs near my home---everybody waits for the other, and then suddenly and simultaneously everyone goes.)

I think that Whatever the cyclist could have done differently, my resting point is that under No Circumstances should the driver of the car don what he did. In every state whose laws I have looked up, if there is not room to pass a cyclist (another vehicle) safely within the confines of a lane the trailing vehicle has to wait, and in every state the overtaking vehicle bears the responsibility to make the pass safely.

Maybe this lady was wrong to trust a driver to care about her safety, but the driver was legally and morally wrong in every aspect of his action.

Yesterday I was making a left turn form a left-turn lane at a problematic intersection. The intersection is a "T" on top of a slight mound with two curving approach roads. Because of the layout there are huge areas of unmarked pavement where cars have to pretty much guess what lane is which, and sight lines on two of the approach roads are compromised.

I was in the left-turn lane waiting on some cars to make right turns from the right-turn lane opposite me. The cars seemed to be hesitating, waiting to see if I was going to try to beat them to the corner, while I tried to stay motionless but still clipped in. I waited for the last car in the opposite turn lane to start moving and headed across the top of the mound. As i did a car came into view from the opposite side, going straight, and at a high rate of speed---I assume, trying to make the light before it changed.

Because I was in the vast no-man's land of unmarked pavement, I had no idea exactly where i was in terms of whether I had crossed out of the oncoming traffic lane, and the driver was flying and never slowed at all---I do not know if s/he ever saw me or ever cared. I had to hammer hard on the pedals just to make sure I was clear---the car was coming way too fast to maneuver much.

This left me wondering (after I shouted a loud "WTF!!??") what I could have done differently. I was in my lane until I committed to go, but I could have hung back, I guess ... I started to go when I could see that the opposing turning car was committed to turning, so I could slot in right behind it--nothing technically wrong there. if I had waited a few seconds, I would have seen the onrushing car going straight and very quickly and not started my turn, but I didn't do anything actually Wrong .... But I could have gotten plowed down by a driver who was more intent on not getting stuck at a light (and it is short red with a very long green, anyway) than on driving safely.

Should I have been even more cautious? At what point does being too cautious impede my progress? At hat point does being too cautious impede the progress of drivers behind me? Yet we do have to allow for bad drivers ... when and how much exactly do we have to prepare for things we literally cannot imagine (drivers can do Crazy things)?

For all we know, this rider saw the truck a ways back, saw it closing but not showing any signs of leaving the lane, and felt completely safe once she was out of the forward lane and into her turn. How could she expect that a car coming up from behind her on a two-lane road would move into the oncoming traffic lane to hit her? I have been in situations where drivers have done such things (passed on the left, fully in the oncoming lane, when there was enough room to pass on the right) but I never expect such stupidity. Should I, always? Should she have, this time?

I wish she had---I hate to see a cyclist get hurt like that, mentally as well as physically. But I also have to keep in mind this was One Hundred Percent wrong and illegal behavior on the part of the overtaking vehicle's driver. One hundred percent. Sure, the law doesn't offer any protection from a bumper and grill, but nothing she did was wrong and everything the other did was wrong. We cannot always successfully second-guess every selfish idiot on the road. If she had aborted her turn he might have hit her anyway---who knows how much room he left her, or if he would have pulled back into the correct lane too soon?

I always Hope i won't get into a situation like this and guess wrong---but in every case, I am trying to guess how a driver will choose to break the law. So no matter what ... the Driver is at fault.
Maelochs is offline  
Old 05-15-19, 07:09 AM
  #15  
mcours2006
Senior Member
 
mcours2006's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Toronto, CANADA
Posts: 5,675

Bikes: Giant Rapid, Bianchi Advantage, Specialized Roubaix, 1985 Gardin Quatro, Norco Threshold, Raleigh Serengheti MTB

Mentioned: 44 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1720 Post(s)
Liked 39 Times in 22 Posts
Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
This takes us to a very fine line between assigning blame to a person who Clearly committed an illegal and very dangerous and damaging bit of driving, and a person who may or may not have done everything right.
I don't think anyone is assigning blame to the victim here. Not even close. Clearly it is the driver's fault. I see these threads as a opportunity to learn how to avoid the same fate if we were ever in a similar situation. In order to do so we need to explore what the victim could have done differently.
mcours2006 is offline  
Likes For mcours2006:
Old 05-15-19, 07:21 AM
  #16  
Maelochs
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 11,498

Bikes: 2015 Workswell 066, 2014 Dawes Sheila, 1983 Cannondale 500, 1984 Raleigh Olympian, 2007 Cannondale Rize 4, 2017 Fuji Sportif 1 LE

Mentioned: 136 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5449 Post(s)
Liked 115 Times in 76 Posts
Originally Posted by mcours2006 View Post
I don't think anyone is assigning blame to the victim here. Not even close. Clearly it is the driver's fault. I see these threads as a opportunity to learn how to avoid the same fate if we were ever in a similar situation. In order to do so we need to explore what the victim could have done differently.
Right ... and as I said above, really the only way is to be 100 percent "on" all the time ... which isn't feasible, IMO.

We all make mistakes. A tiny lapse in concentration, a slight relaxation, a thought that "That driver sees me and cannot possibly try to get by here" or any similar thought ... or a brief instant of no thought .... and it all comes down to luck or karma.

"Never makes mistakes" is really the lesson here. This was no first-timer or sacred newbie ... this was a person who knew what she was doing ... and for one instant she trusted others to act like responsible adults. it happens.

That's what I got from this anyway.

I probably loose focus a few times in Every ride ... and 99.9999 percent of the time it is just me on the road, so no issue. But every now and then .... I think, "There is No Way that guy is going to wait until I am right on top of him and then blast out of that side street ... " or "Surely that guy isn't going to try to beat the light when I am obviously right in front of him crossing his lane as I turn .... "

The best outcome here would be for the driver to do serious jail time. Assault with a deadly weapon, leading to serious bodily injury, committing mayhem .... all that. Drivers get off too easily.

IMO.

Last edited by Maelochs; 05-15-19 at 07:25 AM.
Maelochs is offline  
Likes For Maelochs:
Old 05-15-19, 09:04 AM
  #17  
mcours2006
Senior Member
 
mcours2006's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Toronto, CANADA
Posts: 5,675

Bikes: Giant Rapid, Bianchi Advantage, Specialized Roubaix, 1985 Gardin Quatro, Norco Threshold, Raleigh Serengheti MTB

Mentioned: 44 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1720 Post(s)
Liked 39 Times in 22 Posts
Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
Right ... and as I said above, really the only way is to be 100 percent "on" all the time ... which isn't feasible, IMO.

We all make mistakes. A tiny lapse in concentration, a slight relaxation, a thought that "That driver sees me and cannot possibly try to get by here" or any similar thought ... or a brief instant of no thought .... and it all comes down to luck or karma.

"Never makes mistakes" is really the lesson here. This was no first-timer or sacred newbie ... this was a person who knew what she was doing ... and for one instant she trusted others to act like responsible adults. it happens.

That's what I got from this anyway.

I probably loose focus a few times in Every ride ... and 99.9999 percent of the time it is just me on the road, so no issue. But every now and then .... I think, "There is No Way that guy is going to wait until I am right on top of him and then blast out of that side street ... " or "Surely that guy isn't going to try to beat the light when I am obviously right in front of him crossing his lane as I turn .... "

The best outcome here would be for the driver to do serious jail time. Assault with a deadly weapon, leading to serious bodily injury, committing mayhem .... all that. Drivers get off too easily.

IMO.
Yep. Couldn't agree more.

I had a laps this morning as well. I was so deep in thought that I rolled through an intersection. Fortunately the driver of the vehicle approaching from the side was paying attention. I was lucky.
mcours2006 is offline  
Old 05-15-19, 09:07 AM
  #18  
Paul Barnard
For The Fun of It
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Louisissippi Coast
Posts: 3,826

Bikes: Lynskey Backroad, Litespeed T6, Lynskey MT29, Burley Duet

Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 949 Post(s)
Liked 83 Times in 50 Posts
Am I the only one that finds an irony in an article that condemns poor bicycle crash reporting, reporting on a bicycle crash so poorly that none of us can figure out what happened in the crash?
Paul Barnard is offline  
Likes For Paul Barnard:
Old 05-15-19, 09:14 AM
  #19  
Lemond1985
Sophomore Member
 
Lemond1985's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 1,419
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 789 Post(s)
Liked 150 Times in 108 Posts
And the fact you are the only one who finds irony in the story, IS IN ITSELF IRONIC.
Lemond1985 is offline  
Likes For Lemond1985:
Old 05-15-19, 10:50 AM
  #20  
mr_bill
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 3,436
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1413 Post(s)
Liked 31 Times in 29 Posts
Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
The best outcome here would be for the driver to do serious jail time. Assault with a deadly weapon, leading to serious bodily injury, committing mayhem .... all that. Drivers get off too easily.

IMO.
Bill 175

Passed House and Senate, expected to be signed by the Governor. Minimum 10 days/$300.00 fine. Maximum 12 months/$1000.00 fine. Plus additional penalties of driving restrictions, ordered courses, community service, and restitution.

-mr. bill
mr_bill is offline  
Old 05-15-19, 11:32 AM
  #21  
oldgeezerjeff
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 40

Bikes: 2016 Charge Plug 2, Citizen Miami folding bike

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 3 Posts
In the situation the article describes, I think the driver was likely completely at fault. However, One thing I learned while riding motorcycles (10 years of commuting on one), was that I could make a mistake on the bike...and if it did not kill me, then I considered it a good lesson and determined never to make it again.
I developed a strong survival instinct on the motorcycle and learned many of the cues drivers give when they are about to do something stupid and reckless and I learned to manage my space around those drivers. I try to do the same on the bicycle.
However, sometimes drivers are just too self absorbed, selfish and stupid and their actions will eventually kill someone. Just this morning, on my bicycle commute, I came across two such drivers. On the MUP, at a busy intersection, I always wait on the Walk signal to cross. A person in an SUV pulled up through the crosswalk, intent on turning right. And when the signal changed and I had the Walk signal, she saw traffic coming from her left had cleared and, without ever looking to her right, (where I was waiting on the MUP), she took off. She did "see" me as she roared through the right turn, but I could see that she was never going to look my way and even though I had the Walk signal, there was no way I was going to start through the intersection until she had cleared it.
In another case this morning, I got to enjoy the SUV driver who tries to race ahead of you and then make a right turn directly in front of you, only this time she realized, (or at least thought), that if she made the right turn, I was likely going to broadside her SUV (I wasn't, I had managed to stop)...so she just stopped...thankfully, far enough to the left that, after a few seconds of her just sitting there with her blinker on, I rode by on her right, all the while expecting her to take me out. As I rode by, she did flash me an apologetic wave, in response to my WTH are you doing hand gesture.
Oh well, all in a days ride. I enjoy the ride anyway and consider my time on public roads to be a contest that I win if I get to work and back home safely.
oldgeezerjeff is offline  
Old 05-15-19, 11:55 AM
  #22  
MoAlpha
 
MoAlpha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Land of Pleasant Living
Posts: 2,392

Bikes: Occasionally

Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1349 Post(s)
Liked 57 Times in 42 Posts
I don't know if the woman looked, looked adequately, looked and didn't see, or what. However, would not surprise me that a driver should try to left-pass a cyclist making what we might think of as an obvious "vehicular" left turn. Based on my experience, some folks have trouble conceiving of cyclists as doing anything but standing virtually still and have no "theory of mind" about them at all. A common and less deadly corollary is the idiot who tries to get around you 30' from a stop sign and ends up stopped next to you and half way in the other lane.
MoAlpha is offline  
Old 05-15-19, 12:10 PM
  #23  
mr_bill
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 3,436
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1413 Post(s)
Liked 31 Times in 29 Posts
Stephen Gray will go on trial in June. I suspect we'll learn more about the crash then.

But until then, speculate, speculate, speculate.

Or you could click on a link in the article, but then that probably only raises even more questions.

OR, you could contact Triny Willerton. I'm sure that she'd be happy to answer detailed questions about her crash from some random internut dude.


By the way, perhaps strap on a helmet cam and record and learn what *YOU* do on a left turn?


Two left turns this morning in my car.

In one case I double checked for pedestrians as I turned left, but didn't verify that someone wasn't illegally driving the wrong way on the road passing on my left.
In the other case I did finally check for wrong way traffic on the rotary, but too late.




-mr. bill
mr_bill is offline  
Old 05-15-19, 12:25 PM
  #24  
mcours2006
Senior Member
 
mcours2006's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Toronto, CANADA
Posts: 5,675

Bikes: Giant Rapid, Bianchi Advantage, Specialized Roubaix, 1985 Gardin Quatro, Norco Threshold, Raleigh Serengheti MTB

Mentioned: 44 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1720 Post(s)
Liked 39 Times in 22 Posts
Originally Posted by oldgeezerjeff View Post
On the MUP, at a busy intersection, I always wait on the Walk signal to cross. A person in an SUV pulled up through the crosswalk, intent on turning right. And when the signal changed and I had the Walk signal, she saw traffic coming from her left had cleared and, without ever looking to her right, (where I was waiting on the MUP), she took off. She did "see" me as she roared through the right turn, but I could see that she was never going to look my way and even though I had the Walk signal, there was no way I was going to start through the intersection until she had cleared it.
This is a situation I encounter quite often on a particular MUP that I intermittently use, and it's for this very reason that I only use it intermittently. I encounter two such intersections on a short stretch it probably happens a couple of times a week. I take nothing for granted.
mcours2006 is offline  
Old 05-15-19, 01:31 PM
  #25  
wphamilton
Senior Member
 
wphamilton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Alpharetta, GA
Posts: 14,536

Bikes: Nashbar Road

Mentioned: 65 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2507 Post(s)
Liked 55 Times in 33 Posts
Originally Posted by bakerjw View Post
I am curious, what step did she miss? According to the article, she looked back 2 times.
"As Willerton recalled, after looking behind her, she signaled, moved left into the traffic lane, signaled and looked again, and started her turn when Gray hit her as he tried to pass on the left."...
Even before the article brought this out, I thought it was obvious what happened just from the description. She's already in the lane preparing to turn left, she's struck on the side during the turn and thrown to the far shoulder - it's not even possible for her to "turn in front" and have that happen unless the driver swerved out in the other lane to pass her.
wphamilton is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.