UniChris

I've become a creature of MUPs and similar who mostly avoids roads. However, one of my paths has a couple of miles explicitly placed on the at least half (and often full) lane wide shoulder of a state highway signed at 50 mph or so. Initially I hated this, but I've come to be reasonably comfortable there - speeds are fast, but someone would have be be negligently driving *fully* in the shoulder to put me in danger. And because cyclists are never "in cars way" there seems to be very little driver frustration on display - where there are two travel lanes many will even change to the left lane.

I was doing a little virtual tourism of a ride I probably won't do, and noticed a stretch of a similar state highway with a wide shoulder, though in contrast to the bike signs on the one I am familiar with, I don't know if it's actually legal. When I went looking on Strava, it seems people take a winding, woods-edged country road instead. I don't think I'd be as comfortable riding that, as it requires drivers to recognize my presence, wait for an opening with good sight lines, and then pass with enough space.

This is mostly an academic question as I'm probably not going to ride either (especially as in the last 1/3 of a mile the country road stops and the highway loses its shoulder).

But is my thinking reasonable, that faster traffic not normally in the "lane" I would be riding in, is perhaps less of a risk than somewhat slower traffic traveling in the same space I would be occupying? I realize there's a lot more energy in being hit at say 60 mph vs 40, but I feel like the probability is much lower.

livedarklions

I regularly ride on both of these types of roads. Generally, if there's a routing choice, I love a fast road with a wide breakdown lane, because I can usually go flat out without interruption for hours. I don't mind a lightly trafficked winding narrow country road, but if it's busy, I feel like it gets dangerous pretty quick. Also, around here, the narrow country roads are the last ones to get potholes repaired, so it's definitely slower going. On the other other hand, the scenery on the winding road is usually a lot better, and it's often nice to hear birds instead of vroom vroom.

Many of my rides are a combination of both of these types of roads.

Greenhil

I take the winding country road unless there’s a fair amount of traffic, or there are some other mitigating factors.

My thought is the wider and straighter the road is, the more comfortable drivers feel to reach for their phones to check a text, etc. Like livedarklions, I like bird sounds more than traffic, so maybe I’m just rationalizing to convince myself the country road is safer.

jon c. 

I prefer the country road. The only rider killed around here in the last decade was on a very good shoulder on a high speed road. I ride those roads only to get from one country road to another.

Jim from Boston

Winding Country Road or 50 mph Highway with Shoulder? I recently replied to this thread, +1 to this signature line of @MNHarv, “Just three paved feet to the right of the white fog stripe is all I need.”

Could well be the Road and Commuters’ motto, or even Prayer... "Lord, Just three paved feet to the right of the white fog stripe is all I need.”

bakerjw

Most of the larger divided highways around here have good wide shoulders on them. I like them because their grades are even. Not like a hill around here that I call "The hill of never ending perpetual sorrow" as it changes grades several times over a half mile. With an even grade, I can get into a zone where heart rate, speed and cadence all come together.

I also spend a lot of time on winding 2 lane roads. I pay attention to cars approaching from behind and try to work with them so that I interfere as little as possible. Since most of my riding is during commute times, these are often the same people that I see regularly.

mcours2006

I ride the shouldered roads around here in the summer time with speed limit at around 80 kph (50 mph), and I have no problems with it. There aren't any 'winding country roads' around here to speak of, but there are some straight ones with no shoulder with a speed limit of 60 kph. I prefer the shouldered road.

rumrunn6

I'd choose the one that has other cyclists

windy country road w cars passing in both directions but not too many, but then some clowns with water guns assault me (toward the end of the clip)

least favorite section of my old commute (2009-10) on Route 20, Wayland, MA. (aka Boston Post Rd between Concord Rd & Landham Rd) I affectionately nicknamed "a kill zone". I was always so glad to get to the turnoff after the descent. I think this (2014) clip is from a quiet Sunday morning, not a weekday commute, which would have had much more traffic. on the return trip I would avoid that .8 mile stretch using a bypass (Greenhill Rd to Goodman's Hill Rd to Concord Rd) shortcut cuz I'd be on the other side near it. but making a left on the road w/o a traffic light seemed too sketchy

livedarklions

Funny, I just road that stretch of 20 through Wayland for the first time going from Marlborough to Watertown last Saturday, and I didn't think it was that bad, but like you say, it wasn't at rush hour on a weekday. I usually go a little out of my way to take 117 for the same leg of a century, but 20 was definitely faster for me.

rumrunn6

ah, 117, used to commute on that too from approx Stow to West Newton thru Watertown. much prettier with the corn fields & river, etc. but there are some narrow sections & that rail road crossing in Lincoln? (just after Drumlin Farm)was always fun (not). cars would want to pass me but then they would be in the way of the oncoming traffic, so I would have to take the lane but also indicate with my hand or an index finger for them to wait just a minute, then after the crossing moved over & waved thanks for their patience. but I needed both hand on the bars as I crossed the tracks at that weird angle watching for broken pavement. they finally put in traffic calming islands but that was after our company moved to Natick. coming down that hill from Dumlin Farm heading East I usually had good speed so the cars didn't have to slow too much

rumrunn6

wow that's a long stretch on 20. maybe most of it is not bad but that.8 miles was the worst of my old commute

livedarklions

Overall, it was pretty comparable to 117. I think a stretch like that is a lot worse at some times than others, but to tell the truth, it didn't really stick out in my mind as especially bad. I'm sur e I'd probably feel differently about it if I had to ride it 10 rush hours a week.

I deal with some city streets in Nashua that I find much worse, and I really can't avoid them if I want to get anywhere.

mr_bill

Yeah.

If you are going nowhere, sometimes you choose the roads.
If you are going somewhere, sometimes the roads choose you.

-mr. bill

livedarklions

Unfortunately, the bad roads converge on the neighborhood where I live, so even if I'm going nowhere, I have to traverse them.

Clyde1820

I suppose your logic generally holds, yes, that it'll likely be less risky (on the fact of it) to be on a higher-speed road with proper space/lanes for cyclists and slower vehicles than it could on a road (country or otherwise) where sight lines are ugly and/or no space exists for cyclists.


That said ... for myself:

I'm okay with straight-but-fast roadways, assuming there is plenty of clearly-marked riding area for cyclists. Up to a point. I've done it on roads with 50mph limits, but am not generally a fan of going that far.

I'm okay with smaller "country" (two-way rural type) roads. But I draw the line when two factors converge on such a road: 1) curves that create blind sections, combined with 2) zero "outs" for cyclists or pedestrians on that road.

So. Depends on the road. Depends on whether there are sufficient "outs" in twistier sections of the road. Depends on whether there are generally clear sight lines for approaching drivers. And, at least to me, it also depends on what the history on that road happens to be with respect to crashes.

Around my area, there are several high-volume smaller roads that have zero lanes for cyclists. (They were built in an era before contemporary sensibilities came along, regarding non-motorized vehicles existing on such roads.) There are several lower-volume roads that have horrible sight lines, are twisty enough to be ugly, and on which there are many sections with zero "outs" for a cyclist (which are roads I refuse to bike on, ever). Pretty few roads exist with well-considered lanes for cyclists, with plenty of "outs" and with reasonable speeds that guard against deadly encounters. Same as most places I've seen.

In short: I rolls the dice and takes my chances, but only on roads where I feel I've got a fighting chance of not being struck that year. Otherwise, I find another way. Which works for me.

livedarklions

It really is a "totality of the circumstances" kind of calculation, isn't it? I regularly ride a 30+ mile stretch of NH-111, which has a 55 mph speed limit throughout most of its length. Despite the high speed limit, I feel safe there because of the very broad breakdown lane throughout, there are no tricky exits and entrances, and all of the crossings are well-designed. There's also rumble strips through much of the length which make it very hard for a car to unintentionally drift into the breakdown lane.

The worst thing I have to deal with on that road is the inevitable jerk who sees fit to yell something out of his car or truck window. At the speed they're going, however, it generally sounds like someone yelling "mmmrffof".

Jim from Boston

Winding Country Road or 50 mph Highway with Shoulder? For the amusement of my fellow Metro Bostonians:I had asked @jppe if he wanted to continue his journey all the way down Rte 20, but I recommended the itinerary described above.

livedarklions

I had asked @jppe if he wanted to continue his journey all the way down Rte 20, but I recommended the itinerary described above.



[/QUOTE]

Now that's a long ride on Route 20!

Think that would be way too long in Nebraska for my taste, but what an adventure.

mr_bill

My home is somewhere. (And some folks who won't ride on roads near their homes transport their bikes by motor vehicle somewhere so they can go nowhere.)

But anyhow, clarified above.

-mr. bill

livedarklions

Just a preference thing, but I try to "drive my bike" as little as possible. I'm a big fan of riding it all the way to somewhere even if that somewhere is nowhere.

Exception is my evening after-work ride, which I will sometimes drive the bike to a MUP just to avoid the rush hour traffic on a particular road where a car hit me.

79pmooney

18 years ago ... while I was riding Old 47, a winding no-shoulder two lane road, a couple were killed riding the parallel new 47 in the breakdown lane by an inattentive driver. That has always stuck with me. Here, a mile from my house there is a minor arterial with good bike lanes. Straight as an arrow as it is an old railway right-of-way. I'll ride the slightly uphill inbound but rarely the westbound coming home. I instead ride the rural-like road that parallels it, far windier with a good hill and fast downhill. Car passes are much closer, but I feel the drivers on both those lesser roads are paying far better attention. (The inbound on the second road is steep and I am not yet warmed up. Not a good start for us not-so-young ones.)

Ben

rseeker

Or as one southern rocker sang,

Gimme three feet
Gimme three feet Mister
Gimme three feet from your door

rumrunn6

now you sound like Thoreau

one of my favs: "Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after."

Lemond1985

"It's the getting away from their wives that they really crave, even if it's only for an afternoon."

Re roads, if there's a lot of traffic, i would prefer to be on the wide road with the shoulder. You can usually get a nice wind assist from lots of cars and trucks heading your direction. All the drama and commotion seems to make the miles pass quicker. And if you're hit, God forbid, there will be plenty of witnesses.

If there's light traffic I would prefer the winding country road. I'd try to get out there early Sunday morning and have the whole road to myself.

Jim from Boston

A few weeks after his ride, @jppe (of North Carolina) sent me this picture of a newly posted sign on the opposite side of Kenmore Square.