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$500 ‘Speeding Tickets’ for Riding BIKES Over 15 MPH

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$500 ‘Speeding Tickets’ for Riding BIKES Over 15 MPH

Old 07-11-19, 01:59 AM
  #76  
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Originally Posted by fuzzy chainring View Post
This is simply not true.

LEOs in the SF Bay Area have been using radar to give cyclists tickets for decades. They haven't had a "tough time."
Probably because nobody has challenged it yet. It wouldn't be the first illegal or unconstitutional law that was put into place and people just paid the fine rather than challenge its legality in court.

Some laws are clever like that when they know nobody is going to challenge a law that would cost them ten times the money and their personal time to hire a lawyer to challenge it.

These laws are typically designed to focus on those with limited means. Police are also know to be selective on who they choose to ticket.
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Old 07-11-19, 04:00 AM
  #77  
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Follow the law to the best of your ability but fight all tickets. Haven’t paid one in 20 years
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Old 07-11-19, 06:42 AM
  #78  
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Originally Posted by KraneXL View Post
Probably because nobody has challenged it yet. It wouldn't be the first illegal or unconstitutional law that was put into place and people just paid the fine rather than challenge its legality in court.

Some laws are clever like that when they know nobody is going to challenge a law that would cost them ten times the money and their personal time to hire a lawyer to challenge it.

These laws are typically designed to focus on those with limited means. Police are also know to be selective on who they choose to ticket.
In Maryland we have automated speed camera generating tickets, run by private companies

These machines are filled with every kind of flaw and accuracy problem you can imagine. Not to mention the gross amount of flagrant fraud the program is filled with since a private company is given a financial incentive to issue tickets.

Baltimore had to shut it's program down after it was found to be giving speeding tickets to parked cars and stuff like that. (Temporarily. Then the same system went back online a year later with no changes)

But the system is rigged

You can easily beat one of these tickets in court. That's not the hard part.

But you can't sue the system and escalate your case to a higher court to get the entire ticketing system thrown out. Many have tried. But as soon as someone files suit the state or city dismisses the original ticket, removing any standing you have from being able to sue the system. So your suit is thrown out due to lack of standing (You can't sue someone who isn't causing you damages. If there is no illegal ticket against you, there are no damages and you have no grounds to sue)

Traffic tickets are a corrupt revenue stream that do little to make roads safer for anyone.

You want slower roads? Put in speed bumps. They are foolproof and 100% effective. But they don't bring in money.
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Old 07-11-19, 07:00 AM
  #79  
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Originally Posted by Hondo Gravel View Post
I wish the county would start ticketing those deer that run out in front of my bike on purpose. They wait until the last minute then run out in front trying to wreck me. I know it is multi use road but those deer think they are above the law.
You need to have Deer Crossing signs put up to tell the deer where to cross - you might try writing to the town council or newspaper, or having local radio stations spread your message

https://www.nwitimes.com/news/opinio...56d754a9b.html

Slightly more seriously, these laws are usually passed to let responsible citizens know the city will keep jerks on bikes from ruining things for honest people. At one point the Boston City council was proposing licensing and insurance requirements for bicycle messengers that were higher than for taxis, because we all know that taxi drivers are more courteous and safer than bicycle messengers.
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Old 07-11-19, 10:53 AM
  #80  
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Originally Posted by KraneXL View Post
Probably because nobody has challenged it yet. It wouldn't be the first illegal or unconstitutional law that was put into place and people just paid the fine rather than challenge its legality in court.

Some laws are clever like that when they know nobody is going to challenge a law that would cost them ten times the money and their personal time to hire a lawyer to challenge it.

These laws are typically designed to focus on those with limited means. Police are also know to be selective on who they choose to ticket.
These tickets have been challenged in court.

These laws are not designed to focus on those with limited means.

The rangers have have not been selective on who they choose to ticket.

Your assumptions about my post are incorrect.
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Old 07-11-19, 06:50 PM
  #81  
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Originally Posted by fuzzy chainring View Post
These tickets have been challenged in court.

These laws are not designed to focus on those with limited means.

The rangers have have not been selective on who they choose to ticket.

Your assumptions about my post are incorrect.
Sociology 101. Were you paying attention in class? In fact, all of the above have been proven. So not MY assumption at all.
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Old 07-11-19, 07:07 PM
  #82  
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Originally Posted by KraneXL View Post
Sociology 101. Were you paying attention in class? In fact, all of the above have been proven. So not MY assumption at all.
Again, your assumptions about my post are incorrect.

These radar tickets for speeding within the MMWD have been challenged in court.

The laws that limit mountain bike speeds to 15mph within the MMWD, and MT. Tam in general, are not designed to focus on those with limited means. The same for the same speed limits that other land managers enforce in the SF Bay Area.

The rangers have not been selective about who they choose to ticket. If you're speeding down that fire road and they pop you over 15 in one of their speed traps, you'll get a ticket.

My post had nothing to do with Soc 101 and everything to do with the facts, as opposed to your assumptions.
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Old 07-12-19, 05:52 AM
  #83  
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Originally Posted by KraneXL View Post
Sociology 101. Were you paying attention in class? In fact, all of the above have been proven. So not MY assumption at all.
Sure your assumptions are "proven." You said so and that settles it, right?
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Old 07-12-19, 08:14 AM
  #84  
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^^

For some here its like...

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Old 07-12-19, 09:00 AM
  #85  
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Is 16 mph too fast? Well that depends. The article said in the first or second paragraph "bicycle paths" then the remainder of the article talks about what I assume are multipurpose paths in parks etc. In my area there are several places to walk, jog and ride bicycles on a dedicated path without interacting with cars. One path in particular stretches from the suburbs to center city which is a really nice (albeit flat) ride and cyclists can get going quite fast (20+ even 30 +). For the most part this is pretty safe however sometimes the aggressive cyclist pays little concern to people walking dogs, pushing strollers with babies, jogging etc. etc. These pedestrian activities are acceptable on this path and encouraged for the general welfare of the population. Folks out walking don't necessarily react perfectly when they hear someone yell "ON YOUR LEFT" and they should not be held in contempt for it.

I don't think as the article implies this is a revenue generator. I mean seriously think about how many tickets you need to hand out in order to see a meaningful positive impact to some budget. The expense to the enforcement agency will overcome the revenue. So why is this probably being done? I would say it's a kind of thing that keeps something in the back of your mind when your out there trying to train for the un-achievable goal of the Tour De France. Maybe you take it easy and not risk crashing into mom with the stroller or getting close-lined by a dog leash stretched across the path between the dog and the owner. This may be a way for the municipality to get out in front of a potential problem as maybe population and ridership increases.
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Old 07-12-19, 09:24 AM
  #86  
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Originally Posted by KraneXL View Post
^^

For some here its like...

Your reaction here is puzzling. It's not the reaction of a normal, well-adjusted person when confronted with facts that contradict their assumptions.

First you used qualifiers like "probably" and "typically" when replying to my post. Then you proceeded to make the same assumptions about my post and claim that your assumptions had been proven. That's very odd.

The truth here is that, as I stated in my first reply, "LEOs in the SF Bay Area have been using radar to give cyclists tickets for decades. They haven't had a "tough time."

This simple fact has been documented by numerous riders. Riders who have challenged the tickets in court, tickets that are the result of a law that isn't designed to target those of limited means, and tickets that aren't the result of selective enforcement.

A normal, well-adjusted person would consider these facts and acknowledge that their assumptions just don't apply here.

Will you?
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Old 07-12-19, 12:11 PM
  #87  
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Originally Posted by TKJava View Post
I don't think as the article implies this is a revenue generator. I mean seriously think about how many tickets you need to hand out in order to see a meaningful positive impact to some budget. The expense to the enforcement agency will overcome the revenue. So why is this probably being done?
It is highly doubtful that this ("$500 ‘Speeding Tickets’ for Riding BIKES Over 15 MPH") is being done at all - given that the OP's source appears to a scare mongering article from a highly biased "project" with an agenda of reporting click-baited dogmatic us vs. them rants (i.e. - the evil forces in control of the government in general, and police forces in specific.)

Note the lack of any reference to anyone actually receiving "$500 ‘Speeding Tickets’ for Riding BIKES Over 15 MPH."

Also note that some people probably do not not need any reference to credible evidence to be sure that their paranoia is justified.
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Old 07-16-19, 04:48 PM
  #88  
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Originally Posted by velojym View Post
I agree with the article. Cash/power grab.
It's whiny walkers that want "their paths" and are "uncomfortable" sharing them with cyclists.

Most pure-pedal cyclists who can do more than 15 consistently, at least where I've lived, hang out on the road anyway.
Fit pedal cyclists in urban areas can't average 12 MPH on the roads because of all the traffic lights and stop signs.

I counted 24 lights and 10 stop signs on my 13 mile one way commute.

Conversely, there are zero of either on multi-use paths and those are almost empty with just a few runners and cyclists during the morning rush.

Though I've wanted to ride in Denver one day, I haven't done it yet.
Boulder and Golden have much better riding.

Last edited by Drew Eckhardt; 07-16-19 at 04:53 PM.
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Old 07-17-19, 08:30 PM
  #89  
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It not about safety, with cities it is about the money!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 07-17-19, 08:35 PM
  #90  
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That level of fine is criminal. That said I personally try to limit my speed on MUPS to 15 mph. Neither cyclist or walkers OWN exclusive rights to MUPS!
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Old 07-17-19, 09:13 PM
  #91  
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Originally Posted by Skipjacks View Post
In Maryland we have automated speed camera generating tickets, run by private companies

These machines are filled with every kind of flaw and accuracy problem you can imagine. Not to mention the gross amount of flagrant fraud the program is filled with since a private company is given a financial incentive to issue tickets.

Baltimore had to shut it's program down after it was found to be giving speeding tickets to parked cars and stuff like that. (Temporarily. Then the same system went back online a year later with no changes)

But the system is rigged

You can easily beat one of these tickets in court. That's not the hard part.

But you can't sue the system and escalate your case to a higher court to get the entire ticketing system thrown out. Many have tried. But as soon as someone files suit the state or city dismisses the original ticket, removing any standing you have from being able to sue the system. So your suit is thrown out due to lack of standing (You can't sue someone who isn't causing you damages. If there is no illegal ticket against you, there are no damages and you have no grounds to sue)

Traffic tickets are a corrupt revenue stream that do little to make roads safer for anyone.

You want slower roads? Put in speed bumps. They are foolproof and 100% effective. But they don't bring in money.
Do that with some of these lowered floor handicap conversion vans, and it's harmful to their suspension. And renting a replacement is like $600 a day. How about also mandating law enforcement radar equipment to be within 1% of accurate, and mandate equipment must be held to that standard, calibrated by a laboratory traceable to the NIST semi annually, and all radar operators must pass an FCC General Radiotelegraph Operator license with a Radar Endorsement. And all law enforcement radar equipment must be FCC Type Certified. No 3 hour short course to run radar. Closer to airport radar operator standards and accuracy. Every AM and FM broadcast station must comply with strict rules on their operation, so should law enforcement radar equipment. An AM commercial broadcast transmitter must be within 1 hertz accurate even if it was built in the 1920's. FM equipment must meet as tight requirements on frequency accuracy.
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Old 07-17-19, 09:15 PM
  #92  
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Apparently I’m a criminal. I have, when conditions permit, gone *gasp* 25 mph on a MUP, one of the most crowded MUPs in our nation no less.

My only worries at such speeds are squirrels and bunnies....

-mr. bill

Last edited by mr_bill; 07-18-19 at 04:56 AM.
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Old 07-18-19, 06:52 AM
  #93  
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Originally Posted by Kent T View Post
How about also mandating law enforcement radar equipment to be within 1% of accurate, and mandate equipment must be held to that standard, calibrated by a laboratory traceable to the NIST semi annually.
The stationary automated speed cameras we have here and never calibrated. It's how they give tickets to parked cars. Even then the video is supposedly reviewed and signed off on by a human for each ticket and they STILL send tickets to parked cars.

That's the number one way to beat these tickets. Show up in court and demand the state produce the radar calibration records. Usually they can't, often because it was never completed. Yet still....the state refuses to abandon it's little cash cow that profit off people being too lazy to go to court to fight the bogus tickets.
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Old 07-18-19, 07:29 AM
  #94  
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Originally Posted by Kent T View Post
An AM commercial broadcast transmitter must be within 1 hertz accurate even if it was built in the 1920's.
Unfortunately, you are making up your "facts". The actual requirement is +/- 20 Hz. And for a fixed installation it can be achieved with a GPS-disciplined oscillator. That could work for some portable installations, but not all. In actuality if designed right speed radar doesn't need anything more than an everyday crystal.

Last edited by UniChris; 07-18-19 at 07:34 AM.
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Old 07-18-19, 07:46 AM
  #95  
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Originally Posted by mr_bill View Post
Apparently I’m a criminal. I have, when conditions permit, gone *gasp* 25 mph on a MUP, one of the most crowded MUPs in our nation no less.

My only worries at such speeds are squirrels and bunnies....

-mr. bill
A cyclist should worry about being issued a $500 ticket by one of those pesky bunnies or squirrels about as much as any sane or rational person would worry, fret or agonize about getting a $500 Ticket from an agent of the wicked "b-crats" for riding a bicycle over 15 MPH.
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Old 07-18-19, 08:27 AM
  #96  
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Less whataboutisms and more adherence to the law/rules.

I can sympathize with a commuter if the speed limit is 10 and you got a ticket for 15. I cannot if the limit is 15 and you got a ticket for 20+.

Just like with car speeding, you can easily and mathematically show the time differential for common commuting and errand running times is minimal savings at best.

If your bike commute is 10mi each way and you avg 15mph, that's 40min. At 20mph that's 30min. 10min sounds like a lot, but often these times are normalized and swayed by stops at intersections and lights and such.

Often making the difference 5 minutes.

I think the common sense is in having the speeds match the intended path use. Commuters? 15mph. Enjoyment trail? 10mph.

You can't on one hand argue about cagers trying to kill you on the road and demand bike lanes, strict laws and enforcement, etc.......then turn around and do the same things the car are doing on an MUP.

Now, that said............$500 is ludicrous for road or bike path. I'd say for a bike path $100 would be plenty.
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Old 07-18-19, 08:32 AM
  #97  
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Originally Posted by burnthesheep View Post
You can't on one hand argue about cagers trying to kill you on the road and demand bike lanes, strict laws and enforcement, etc.......then turn around and do the same things the car are doing on an MUP.
Something I've come to realize is that people pretty much have the same attitudes no matter what they are engaged in doing.
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Old 07-18-19, 11:12 AM
  #98  
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Originally Posted by mr_bill View Post
Apparently I’m a criminal. I have, when conditions permit, gone *gasp* 25 mph on a MUP, one of the most crowded MUPs in our nation no less.

My only worries at such speeds are squirrels and bunnies....

-mr. bill
If that is the"bikeway" I think you mean, I do the same thing. There's several miles where doing that is nuts, but there's also several where it's basically straight and almost empty.
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Old 07-19-19, 11:46 AM
  #99  
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Originally Posted by Drew Eckhardt View Post
It's whiny walkers that want "their paths" and are "uncomfortable" sharing them with cyclists.



Fit pedal cyclists in urban areas can't average 12 MPH on the roads because of all the traffic lights and stop signs.

I counted 24 lights and 10 stop signs on my 13 mile one way commute.

Conversely, there are zero of either on multi-use paths and those are almost empty with just a few runners and cyclists during the morning rush.



Boulder and Golden have much better riding.
I guess it depends on where you are. The main pathway across the East Bay (opposite S.F.) is the Ohlone Greenway. There are stops signs at nearly every intersection it passes (not that most cyclists actually stop; they do ticketing stings every once in a while, though) and signal lights as well. The Greenway parallels a main thoroughfare, providing car-free-ish routes for commuters and others, but it's a dense urban setting and stops and lights predominate. Skilled riders typically take to the street and ride with auto traffic, as they at least do not have to deal with the constant stop signs (or risk a ticket when violated). Speed can definitely get up to 20mph between lights if you have are young and fit.
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