Notices
Advocacy & Safety Cyclists should expect and demand safe accommodation on every public road, just as do all other users. Discuss your bicycle advocacy and safety concerns here.

Another hit and run

Old 07-26-19, 05:20 PM
  #1  
GailT
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Colorado
Posts: 209
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 106 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 13 Times in 9 Posts
Another hit and run

Another hit and run near Boulder, CO. Quote from an article in the Daily Camera. I hope he recovers and that they find the driver.

The Colorado State Patrol is investigating a hit-and-run crash that left a Boulder cyclist with life-threatening injuries on Saturday.
Andrew “Bernie” Bernstein was biking west on Arapahoe Road near Legion Park on Saturday at around 4:30 p.m. Saturday, Bernstein’s family told the Daily Camera. Gloria Liu, Bernstein’s fiancee, said Bernstein was riding by himself from Erie back to Boulder when it appears he was struck by a vehicle on a flat stretch of road after cresting a climb in the area. “There were no witnesses, but it appears he got to the top of the hill and was hit from behind by a car,” Liu said. A passing motorist saw Bernstein on the side of the road and called 911. Bernstein was transported to Boulder Community Health’s Foothills Hospital, but later airlifted to Denver Health due to the severity of his injuries. Bernstein’s brother, Eric, said his brother suffered severe internal injuries and broken bones, and has been sedated ever since the crash.

As Bernstein recovers, investigators are trying to piece together more information on the crash. Colorado State Patrol Trooper Gary Cutler said a piece of the suspect vehicle left behind at the scene traced back to a 2000 Dodge Ram van. “The severity of the crash makes it hard to believe the individual driving is not aware they hit someone,” he said. “It’s very upsetting to realize this person noticed and knew what they had done and left my brother to die on the side of the road in the rain.” Anyone who saw anything related to the crash is asked to call Colorado State Patrol at 303-289-4760.
GailT is offline  
Old 07-29-19, 04:52 AM
  #2  
bakerjw
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: NE Tennessee
Posts: 869

Bikes: Giant TCR/Surly Karate Monkey/Foundry FireTower/Curtlo Tandem

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 151 Post(s)
Liked 68 Times in 48 Posts
IMHO. Distracted, stoned or drunk. Leaving the scene was the easy way out.

Best hopes for a full recovery for the cyclist.
bakerjw is offline  
Old 08-12-19, 02:52 PM
  #3  
brooksmurphyt
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 5
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
We have to stop these horrible accidents! This way past out of hand.
brooksmurphyt is offline  
Old 08-14-19, 01:06 PM
  #4  
Brocephus
Professional amateur
 
Brocephus's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Ga.
Posts: 600

Bikes: Does a Big Wheel count ?

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 273 Post(s)
Liked 103 Times in 68 Posts
Originally Posted by brooksmurphyt View Post
We have to stop these horrible accidents! This way past out of hand.
Short of banning cars and trucks, it ain't gonna happen. We can "educate", and sign petitions, and hold candlelight vigils till the cows come home, but society is going bat**** crazy, and it's only getting worse.
Brocephus is offline  
Likes For Brocephus:
Old 08-14-19, 01:22 PM
  #5  
Riveting
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 504

Bikes: '13 Trek Madone 2.3, '13 Diamondback Hybrid Commuter, '17 Spec Roubaix Di2, '17 Spec Camber 29'er

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 181 Post(s)
Liked 34 Times in 23 Posts
Much, much stiffer penalties for hit and runs, along with more rear facing HD cameras on bikes, will reduce these incidents. Eventually.
Riveting is offline  
Old 08-15-19, 04:32 AM
  #6  
MattTheHat 
Senior Member
 
MattTheHat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Allen, TX
Posts: 739

Bikes: '20 Specialized Roubaix Expert, '18 Specialized Diverge Comp

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 236 Post(s)
Liked 105 Times in 82 Posts
Originally Posted by Riveting View Post
Much, much stiffer penalties for hit and runs, along with more rear facing HD cameras on bikes, will reduce these incidents. Eventually.
I see cameras mentioned all the time. Can someone explain to me how running a camera is going to keep a distracted/drunk/stoned driver from hitting a cyclist? Even a driver who just up and decides to run over a cyclist one day out of pure meanness...do we expect they’re going to check for a camera first?

If the argument is that the camera content is going to be used after the fact to prosecute the driver...do we really think that’s going to help? Security cameras don’t keep convenience stores from getting robbed.

Run a camera if if you like, but to think it offers any protection seems like a false hope to me.

-Matt
__________________
MattTheHat is online now  
Likes For MattTheHat:
Old 08-15-19, 05:45 AM
  #7  
Riveting
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 504

Bikes: '13 Trek Madone 2.3, '13 Diamondback Hybrid Commuter, '17 Spec Roubaix Di2, '17 Spec Camber 29'er

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 181 Post(s)
Liked 34 Times in 23 Posts
Originally Posted by MattTheHat View Post
I see cameras mentioned all the time. Can someone explain to me how running a camera is going to keep a distracted/drunk/stoned driver from hitting a cyclist? Even a driver who just up and decides to run over a cyclist one day out of pure meanness...do we expect they’re going to check for a camera first?

If the argument is that the camera content is going to be used after the fact to prosecute the driver...do we really think that’s going to help? Security cameras don’t keep convenience stores from getting robbed.

Run a camera if if you like, but to think it offers any protection seems like a false hope to me.
The existence of a camera on your bike (or in a convenience store) doesn't offer direct protection, just as the existence of a police force in your town doesn't offer direct protection. Both are used AFTER an incident has occurred to bring the perpetrator to justice, and in doing so, and making those cases public (via newspaper or TV news) will cause future perpetrators to "think twice" and hopefully not perform the incident in the first place. It's called a "crime deterrent", Google it.
Riveting is offline  
Old 08-15-19, 08:12 AM
  #8  
MattTheHat 
Senior Member
 
MattTheHat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Allen, TX
Posts: 739

Bikes: '20 Specialized Roubaix Expert, '18 Specialized Diverge Comp

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 236 Post(s)
Liked 105 Times in 82 Posts
Originally Posted by Riveting View Post
The existence of a camera on your bike (or in a convenience store) doesn't offer direct protection, just as the existence of a police force in your town doesn't offer direct protection. Both are used AFTER an incident has occurred to bring the perpetrator to justice, and in doing so, and making those cases public (via newspaper or TV news) will cause future perpetrators to "think twice" and hopefully not perform the incident in the first place. It's called a "crime deterrent", Google it.
Oh, I understand the idea, I just don't personally see any evidence that it's working. Convenience stores are still getting robbed. Cyclist are going to continue to get run over.

In many, many case, the driver stops. There's no need for a camera to identify them. And the drivers are often not charged because they claimed their vision was obstructed or some other equally lame excuse.

Now, as a prosecutorial aid, sure a camera could *possibly* be of some use. At least to identify the owner of the vehicle. But I wouldn't go as far as calling that protection.
__________________
MattTheHat is online now  
Old 08-15-19, 08:24 AM
  #9  
I-Like-To-Bike
Been Around Awhile
 
I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 27,769

Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked 105 Times in 71 Posts
Originally Posted by MattTheHat View Post
Oh, I understand the idea, I just don't personally see any evidence that it's working.
This is BF A&S; wishful thinking trumps absence of credible evidence when it comes to validating cherished beliefs.
I-Like-To-Bike is offline  
Old 08-15-19, 08:29 AM
  #10  
MattTheHat 
Senior Member
 
MattTheHat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Allen, TX
Posts: 739

Bikes: '20 Specialized Roubaix Expert, '18 Specialized Diverge Comp

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 236 Post(s)
Liked 105 Times in 82 Posts
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
This is BF A&S; wishful thinking trumps absence of credible evidence when it comes to validating cherished beliefs.
I honestly hope I'm wrong. Time will tell.
__________________
MattTheHat is online now  
Old 08-15-19, 09:50 AM
  #11  
Paul Barnard
For The Fun of It
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Louisissippi Coast
Posts: 3,912

Bikes: Lynskey Backroad, Litespeed T6, Lynskey MT29, Burley Duet

Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 999 Post(s)
Liked 119 Times in 73 Posts
Originally Posted by MattTheHat View Post
Oh, I understand the idea, I just don't personally see any evidence that it's working. Convenience stores are still getting robbed. Cyclist are going to continue to get run over.

In many, many case, the driver stops. There's no need for a camera to identify them. And the drivers are often not charged because they claimed their vision was obstructed or some other equally lame excuse.

Now, as a prosecutorial aid, sure a camera could *possibly* be of some use. At least to identify the owner of the vehicle. But I wouldn't go as far as calling that protection.
I don't think that's the correct measure to determine if video cameras are having a deterrence effect. Has the incidence of robberies decreased since the use of cameras has become widespread? I don't know the answer to that.

I completely get your point about the presence of a camera having no effect on a distracted driver. The presence of cameras on bicycles will never move the distracted driver needle. But will it ever deter someone from driving off after they hit a cyclist? I suspect so. I am a technotard, aren't some cameras able to record to a remote site/cloud? If so motorists may not be as willing to take any cameras the cyclists may have had.
Paul Barnard is offline  
Old 08-15-19, 09:54 AM
  #12  
MattTheHat 
Senior Member
 
MattTheHat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Allen, TX
Posts: 739

Bikes: '20 Specialized Roubaix Expert, '18 Specialized Diverge Comp

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 236 Post(s)
Liked 105 Times in 82 Posts
Originally Posted by Paul Barnard View Post
I don't think that's the correct measure to determine if video cameras are having a deterrence effect. Has the incidence of robberies decreased since the use of cameras has become widespread? I don't know the answer to that.
I agree, 100 percent. Perhaps I should have simply asked for proof that cameras reduce bicycle collisions.
__________________
MattTheHat is online now  
Old 08-15-19, 09:56 AM
  #13  
Paul Barnard
For The Fun of It
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Louisissippi Coast
Posts: 3,912

Bikes: Lynskey Backroad, Litespeed T6, Lynskey MT29, Burley Duet

Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 999 Post(s)
Liked 119 Times in 73 Posts
Originally Posted by MattTheHat View Post
I agree, 100 percent. Perhaps I should have simply asked for proof that cameras reduce bicycle collisions.
What? This is the internet. I am pretty sure that is illegal.
Paul Barnard is offline  
Likes For Paul Barnard:
Old 08-15-19, 10:08 AM
  #14  
MattTheHat 
Senior Member
 
MattTheHat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Allen, TX
Posts: 739

Bikes: '20 Specialized Roubaix Expert, '18 Specialized Diverge Comp

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 236 Post(s)
Liked 105 Times in 82 Posts
Originally Posted by Paul Barnard View Post
But will it ever deter someone from driving off after they hit a cyclist? I suspect so. I am a technotard, aren't some cameras able to record to a remote site/cloud? If so motorists may not be as willing to take any cameras the cyclists may have had.
I suspect that in some cases, yes, *if* the motorist recognizes there is a camera, they may stop and render aid. In many cases though, rendering aid will be too little, too late and the cyclist will die. In such a case, was the cyclist protected?

I can think of other scenarios where the driver (especially those of the criminal persuasion) would purposely not stop *if* they knew there was a camera.

Again, I could be wrong. But I see many posts where cameras are mentioned as making a cyclist safe. I'd just like to see some evidence that supports it.
__________________
MattTheHat is online now  
Likes For MattTheHat:
Old 08-18-19, 02:23 PM
  #15  
Daniel4
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2,167

Bikes: Sekini 1979 ten speed racer

Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 783 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 55 Times in 39 Posts
Originally Posted by MattTheHat View Post
I suspect that in some cases, yes, *if* the motorist recognizes there is a camera, they may stop and render aid. In many cases though, rendering aid will be too little, too late and the cyclist will die. In such a case, was the cyclist protected?

I can think of other scenarios where the driver (especially those of the criminal persuasion) would purposely not stop *if* they knew there was a camera.

Again, I could be wrong. But I see many posts where cameras are mentioned as making a cyclist safe. I'd just like to see some evidence that supports it.
There are also a lot of cars with dash cams these days but we don't find driving to have improved lately. I also doubt that if a driver installs a dash cam in his own car, he'd suddenly be a better driver. And if he does get into a collision, his first reaction would be to erase what's on the dash cam.

However, we can only hope that other dash cams and bike cams can provide evidence for some sort of conviction.
Daniel4 is offline  
Old 08-19-19, 09:28 AM
  #16  
JW Fas
Cop Magnet
 
JW Fas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 98
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 74 Post(s)
Liked 41 Times in 13 Posts
We don't penalize bad behavior in a car anywhere harshly enough. Stuff like distracted driving now accounts for 25% of all crashes yet is met with low fines and a few points. You're more likely to crash while texting now than you are while drunk, yet DUI/DWI has fines an order of magnitude higher. Adding insult to injury, only two states (IL & NH) require follow-up road testing to retain your license, but it's only after a certain age (usually 75). By then you already have one foot out the door anyway. We hand driving licenses to teenagers and basically tell them, "By the way, you'll never have to prove you can safely operate a motor vehicle again. Just stop by once every four years to renew this card."
JW Fas is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.