Joe Bikerider

In Walnut Creek, ca there is a report today about a "likely" fatal crash at the intersection between the Contra Costa Canal trail and Bancroft Road. This is a major route for both type of vehicles. Cyclists are going east/west along that pretty busy MUP and cars are going north/south along Bancroft. I went through that intersection earlier in the day. It is two lanes on each side of the road and a pretty wide intermediate planted areaa.. I was annoyed to see a cyclist not wait for the lights and just jumped through the first two lanes and then wait in the middle and the jump the rest of the way when it was clear. But who an I to say? This collision came along later and was reported here.


ALERT: Bancroft Rd. Closed Near Black Bear Diner In Walnut Creek Due To Collision ?claycord CLAYCORD.com


Very sad. I have no idea who was doing what at that intersection and in fact I have seen bad behavior from all sides. I've always considered this a pretty safe crossing. But this will make me think twice, that's for sure. We will see what further reports are. That's me in my rational side. This is my other side: I'm sick of being put in danger by these cars. And I think it's getting worse. Like this example of a normally safe intersection is now something I am afraid of.

spdntrxi

do you know how often people see the actions of 1 cyclist and say "all cyclist suck"

how often do you think that when a motorist does something stupid ? well I do.. but in general it does not work that way

Moe Zhoost

It's curious that they have a red/green signal light for trail users. I reckon that the planners thought that the standard pedestrian type signals were not enough? With that middle island, I don't see an issue with partial crossing against the light, but I would not do it unless there were no oncoming vehicles within 100 yards. Speed limit along that stretch appears to be 40 mph so that means that traffic could be 50+. This is another reason to cross against the light if no motor traffic is in sight. Too many motorists run through red lights for me to be comfortable with any traffic signal.

Joe Bikerider

Another cyclist or driver making unexpected manouvers adds complcation to my decision making process. That’s how it effects me. I think that if all the acters involved, cyclists and drivers are predicable then we are all safer.

Joe Bikerider

You as a cyclist who have crossed safely was one thing, just an idiot trying to get away with something and claiming it’s helping all of us. I’ve seen a rider crash hard doing a very similar trick crossing Oak Grove road. It did matter to me since I stopped to help him out. But I guess you are better than that? Are you really so selfish that anything that gets you ahead is good for everyone? Time to grow up dude.

Joe Bikerider

This is what you said.

For the record, I have rarely used the signal there and have crossed it dozens of times over the years. When traffic opens up I move to the protected middle and then cross when traffic opens up on the other side. Win-win. I get through quicker and the folks that are driving aren't held up.

win win to who? You getting away with your trick. And messing things up for all of us.

Bye

Joe Bikerider

Because your “safe” crosing will eventually cause an accident like the one last friday that started this discusion. Sure you may get away with it for years, but it’s still not safe to jump the lights and you should stop.

jon c. 

Sounds like the courteous thing to do. I find drivers appreciate it when you do what you can to keep things moving.

MattTheHat 

Perhaps you missed it, but the OP answered your question in post #6 .

livedarklions

If you consider an extremely vague answer to be an answer to a very specific question. What specific decision-making was affected by a routine jump to a safety island in the face of zero traffic?

indyfabz

Obtl

MattTheHat 

The response didn't seem vague at all to me. The answer was because it complicates the OP's decision making process.

Edited to add that the intersection doesn't look terrible to me. I can't personally see how a rider stopped in the middle would add much complication.

I don't understand the goading of the OP with questions like "Why are you afraid to answer?" Especially since the question had already been answered.

livedarklions

Your edited to add effectively negates the assertion that the response wasn't vague. I can't personally see it either.

MattTheHat 

The answer is because you ≠ the OP. The OP's estimation of what's safe is obviously different than yours. The fact that this annoys you is pretty much the same as the fact that someone stopping in the middle annoys the OP.

MattTheHat 

No, it doesn't. The OP clearly answered the question. Just because we don't necessarily agree with the OP's opinion, doesn't mean he didn't offer one.

livedarklions

It's not a matter of agree or disagree, it's that neither you nor I can see how this supposedly clear answer relates to the actual situation he described.

In that sense, "I hate potatoes" would also be a clear answer.

CliffordK

Here is the map.

https://www.google.com/maps/@37.9269...7i13312!8i6656

Pretty good visibility once one is in the intersection, but potentially obscured as one approaches.

I'd probably wait for the light assuming it could be triggered. But, I'm less concerned about the cyclists that stop, look, and go, rather than the ones that would just shoot across without looking.

Yesterday evening I was driving a bit. On the cross-street where I was... left turn turned green. Then straight through turned green about a second later. I was just about ready to move when a BMX rider shot across. No lights. No warning. Riding on sidewalk against traffic. And, crossing against red lights and Do Not Walk. He just shot out of nowhere, and almost got hit by the car making a left on green. A second or two later, and I would have been moving.

MattTheHat 

From my point of view you seemed annoyed, not amused.

MattTheHat 

Except the OP didn't mention potatoes.

I see exactly how the answer relates. The OP feels his decision making process is complicated when he sees someone stopped in the middle. You or I or @render ranger apparently would not find complication in the situation, but that doesn't mean the OP doesn't.

My point is, if you disagree, responding "I disagree" or "you're wrong" or "get more riding skills" makes perfect sense. Responding "Why are you afraid to answer the question?" is just...weird.

livedarklions

Frankly, I thought the whole exchange was a bit off on both sides, but I'll just say my piece on why I thought it's actually an interesting and really unanswered question. The bigger argument is whether we should, as cyclists, obey lights and signs even when doing so offers us no safety benefit and endangers no one else. This is a pretty clear case of a harmless rule break, so I don't think there's any harm in asking how this "complicates" OP's decision making, and I do find it strange that OP won't explain how it does.

We could probably do a whole semester's worth of an undergraduate logic seminar on our different interpretations of the words "vague" and "clear", but I'm going to pass on another round of that and just say I don't get what OP's complaint is really about because "it complicates my thought process" clarifies absolutely nothing.

CliffordK

Did anybody figure out the cause of the accident mentioned by the OP.

1. Either the car or the bicycle ran a red light.
2. Either car or bicycle was late crossing or had a light change (stale yellow)
3. Either car or bicycle jumped the light (light timing?)
4. Intoxicants?
5. Electronic devices (bike or car)

Mid-Block traffic signals are exceptionally problematic. I'm not sure how vehicles would interpret that light. However, lights don't impart a magical protective shield around the cyclist.

So, crossing without traffic likely is as safe as crossing with a light before all cross traffic has stopped.

Ohhh... Look at what Google Captured!!!



One thing, if one manages to get stuck in the island, there may not be any way to trigger the light to change again.

CliffordK

Can we get a row of retractable steel bollards that raise every time the light turns red?

MattTheHat 

To everything else you wrote, I'll say...fair enough.

To the above quoted question, for me, the answer is no. The one that illustrates this most for me is sitting alone in a residential 4-lane road at a red light that's traffic controlled. One that won't change until something larger than a motorcycle pulls up. A cyclist is a sitting duck. I just won't do it unless I have no choice because of crossing traffic.

For the posted intersection...yeah, I'd almost certainly stop in the middle if I could safely only cross half way. I have several intersection like that one (but less spacious) on one of the routes I ride a few times a week. Sometimes I click the button, sometimes I don't, but if it's clear, I'm going. If there's a place to stop in the middle and I can get there safely, that's what I generally do. I will say if there's a pedestrian or cyclist stranded in the middle, that would...wait for it...complicate my decision.

MattTheHat 

It would be hard to said, not being the OP. And to be honest, I no longer care. As I stated, I simply didn't understand why you were telling the OP he was "afraid to answer your question" when he had actually already answered it twice. That seemed as illogical to me as his answer seemed to you.

Joe Bikerider

The WC police have assigned an incident number and will have the report posted on their site soon. It’s 19-27285. That will hopefully answer some questions.