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I almost got doored - yet most drivers blame me. How do we improve car culture?

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I almost got doored - yet most drivers blame me. How do we improve car culture?

Old 09-17-19, 07:41 AM
  #26  
rumrunn6
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looking at the original clip again, I see there are a few inches of 'margin' but we deserve better

found a cpl of good ones





juicy article here

Boston Biker Ľ Blog Archive Ľ How To Use A Door Zone Bike Lane Part 2: Attack Of The Door Zone!

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Old 09-17-19, 08:19 AM
  #27  
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Just because the rant about the old sharrows on Columbus goes ON AND ON AND ON in the above blog post.

Back then Columbus had two lanes in each direction. The curb side lane was a rush hour travel lane with sharrows. Outside of rush hour, it was a parking lane. Which is why cars are parked on top of the sharrows.

Part of Columbus next to Union Church also had a wide cobble median that was used as an additional special permit parking lane. So, there would be parking, narrow door zone bike lane, narrow door zone general traffic lane, parking, narrow door zone general traffic lane, narrow door zone bike lane, parking. The cobbles are gone now, but the special permit parking lane remains near Union Church, together with the narrow bike lanes. But much of Columbus now has parking protected bike lanes.

Presentation about Columbus

-mr. bill
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Old 09-17-19, 08:55 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by Daniel4 View Post
My suggestion: Ring your bell or sound your horn as you ride past parked cars.
My suggestion: donít ride in the door zone.
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Old 09-17-19, 11:28 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by rumrunn6 View Post
looking at the original clip again, I see there are a few inches of 'margin' ...
The OP is using a atypically-wide cycle and it appears to overhang that "margin".
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Old 09-17-19, 11:51 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
On another forum, or maybe it was this one, some guy was riding with his dog on a leash and the two of them got tangled up and he ran over his dog. But God is good. His dog is fine, but in his fall the end of the handlebar went through his chest. He is a C5 quadriplegic for the rest of his life. He can breathe without machines but that's it. DON"T run your dog alongside your bike! It is not a best practice. It's stressful for them and not a whole lot of fun as it appears to be. And you could end up in an accident. That would suck rocks, I think. FWIW.
haha god is good comment...shot water out my nose! thanks for the laugh stranger!


JAG
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Old 09-17-19, 11:58 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by caloso View Post
My suggestion: donít ride in the door zone.
True but you're going to get bullied and maybe rear-ended and motorists are going to wonder why you're in the traffic lane when there's an empty bike lane right beside you.
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Old 09-17-19, 12:01 PM
  #32  
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This is PRECISELY why I do NOT ride in a bike lane that is located in the door zone of motor vehicles. I told our city bicycle infrastructure planners that Door-Zone Bicycle Lanes are a terrible hazard to bicyclists and that I will NOT use them as they are so risky. If an opening vehicle door strikes your handlebar or front wheel that door will deflect you down and into the traffic lane that just might be occupied by a car or other vehicle. You could end up with a very run-down feeling.

For safety's sake o NOT ride in the door zone! Think of your dog. If you go down it'll most likely be thrown into traffic as will you. I had one police officer ask me (in a nice manner) why I wasn't riding in a marked bike lane. I explained to him that the bike lane was in the door-zone and thus was a pretty dangerous place to ride. I had him park ahead and open his door a bit just to show him what could happen to a bicyclist if someone opened their door as the bicyclist was passing their vehicle. the officer said he had not considered that and that I was right not to ride there.

Here's what can and did happen in some instances of a bicyclist getting doored.


A demonstration.


This is the best instructional video I've seen for door zones.


Cheers

Last edited by Miele Man; 09-17-19 at 12:19 PM. Reason: Added a third good You Tube video showing how to avoid the door zone
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Old 09-17-19, 12:02 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by Daniel4 View Post
True but you're going to get bullied and maybe rear-ended and motorists are going to wonder why you're in the traffic lane when there's an empty bike lane right beside you.
You have a LOT LESS chance of being rear ended in the traffic lane than you do of being hit and deflected into that traffic lane after an opening door hits you. A lot of times you can not even see if there is someone in the vehicle.

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Old 09-17-19, 12:20 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by howardv View Post
I recently posted a video where I almost got doored in a non-bike related forum. Every single response blame me. Some say I rode too close to the parked car, so it was my fault. Others say I should be riding with my dog. Yet some say I shouldn't have been weaving. Here is the video:

https://youtu.be/wjG5kYHS4ng

This is in Santa Monica, a beach city. Lots of bicycles and e-scooters. I have to ride 17 blocks on the street (with a bike lane) to get to the safe beach bike path. It's illegal to ride on the sidewalk in Santa Monica. I ride with my two dogs. One in the front basked, and the other running along side (to my left) while I hold her leash. In the video, you don't see my dog running next to me due to the camera angle. Here is a better view of us during another ride (jump 40 seconds in the video):

https://youtu.be/ripg0M6aDAk?t=38

I'm just baffled. How can you blame a cyclist for riding in the bike lane and not blame the careless driver who flings their door open? How do we change people's mentality?
I BLAME the designers and those who implement such DANGEROUS bike lanes.

Cheers
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Old 09-17-19, 01:07 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by Miele Man View Post
You have a LOT LESS chance of being rear ended in the traffic lane than you do of being hit and deflected into that traffic lane after an opening door hits you.
Credible source for this factoid?
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Old 09-17-19, 01:09 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by njkayaker View Post
This isn't always true. In this case, it appears to be a relatively slow road.
I know you think so, but DOT engineers aren't total fools. They have a very tough job: satisfying a very non-****genous group of individuals that vary widely in their perception of risk. I'm speaking mainly about cyclists. You see a door zone bicycle lane and you advise the o.p. not to use such, but conveniently DO NOT (nor has anyone else) suggest what they should do instead! A vocal minority notwithstanding, most reasonable cyclists HAPPILY trade the minimal risk from a suddenly opening car door, to the ever present risk of being a VERY low powered vehicle trying to compete for access to the main travel lane with motor vehicles, the least of which out power a mounted cyclist by a factor of 300% and out mass him/her by over 6,000%. Cars with top speeds of over 120 mph must toddle along at 25 mph in the city center. Is it totally out of fathomability that a bike commuter with a top speed of ~25 mph (level ground) likewise toddle along at ~12 mph in a door zone bike lane? A dooring at that speed would not be fatal. No doubt someone will find the exception. But, barring that singular exception, the rest of us who lead clean lives and do not worship fallen idols will not suffer death from using municipal bicycle infrastructure. When the detractors can actually suggest (rational) alternatives to 'door zone' bike lanes I'll be all ears. Until then, green for the win.
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Old 09-17-19, 01:18 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
I know you think so, but DOT engineers aren't total fools. They have a very tough job: satisfying a very non-****genous group of individuals that vary widely in their perception of risk. I'm speaking mainly about cyclists. You see a door zone bicycle lane and you advise the o.p. not to use such, but conveniently DO NOT (nor has anyone else) suggest what they should do instead! A vocal minority notwithstanding, most reasonable cyclists HAPPILY trade the minimal risk from a suddenly opening car door, to the ever present risk of being a VERY low powered vehicle trying to compete for access to the main travel lane with motor vehicles, the least of which out power a mounted cyclist by a factor of 300% and out mass him/her by over 6,000%. Cars with top speeds of over 120 mph must toddle along at 25 mph in the city center. Is it totally out of fathomability that a bike commuter with a top speed of ~25 mph (level ground) likewise toddle along at ~12 mph in a door zone bike lane? A dooring at that speed would not be fatal. No doubt someone will find the exception. But, barring that singular exception, the rest of us who lead clean lives and do not worship fallen idols will not suffer death from using municipal bicycle infrastructure. When the detractors can actually suggest (rational) alternatives to 'door zone' bike lanes I'll be all ears. Until then, green for the win.
I'll happily suggest what the OP or anyone else riding that street should do instead:

1) look back and find a break in traffic
2) put out your left hand to signal you're moving over
3) move over to a safe distance away from the widest likely door
4) carry on to your destination.
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Old 09-17-19, 01:25 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
I know you think so, but DOT engineers aren't total fools. They have a very tough job: satisfying a very non-****genous group of individuals that vary widely in their perception of risk. I'm speaking mainly about cyclists. You see a door zone bicycle lane and you advise the o.p. not to use such, but conveniently DO NOT (nor has anyone else) suggest what they should do instead! A vocal minority notwithstanding, most reasonable cyclists HAPPILY trade the minimal risk from a suddenly opening car door, to the ever present risk of being a VERY low powered vehicle trying to compete for access to the main travel lane with motor vehicles, the least of which out power a mounted cyclist by a factor of 300% and out mass him/her by over 6,000%. Cars with top speeds of over 120 mph must toddle along at 25 mph in the city center. Is it totally out of fathomability that a bike commuter with a top speed of ~25 mph (level ground) likewise toddle along at ~12 mph in a door zone bike lane? A dooring at that speed would not be fatal. No doubt someone will find the exception. But, barring that singular exception, the rest of us who lead clean lives and do not worship fallen idols will not suffer death from using municipal bicycle infrastructure. When the detractors can actually suggest (rational) alternatives to 'door zone' bike lanes I'll be all ears. Until then, green for the win.
???

"top speeds of over 120 mph"? What does this have to do with anything?

What the heck are you going on about here?

If you need bicycle lanes to get around, you aren't going to get very far.

That is, very likely, you will have to be able to ride where there are no bicycle lanes.

Bizarre.

Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
You see a door zone bicycle lane and you advise the o.p. not to use such, but conveniently DO NOT (nor has anyone else) suggest what they should do instead!
I'm assuming people reading are capable of doing a least a little bit of thinking.

Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
When the detractors can actually suggest (rational) alternatives to 'door zone' bike lanes I'll be all ears. Until then, green for the win.
Do you ride in the door zone when there isn't green paint?

Last edited by njkayaker; 09-17-19 at 01:33 PM.
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Old 09-17-19, 01:30 PM
  #39  
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Me and mine are quite grieved that the UK has chosen to ally with American xenophobia and rampant Captitalism and exit the EU. TBH her defacto EU citizenship opened a wormhole to The Netherlands and an escape from all of this cycling advocacy that threatens to backfire upon its proponents and lead to the wholesale banishment of bicycles from the public sphere. Be careful what you wish for. Portland, OR is a mature city and its infrastructure cannot be, after the fact, both a cyclist utopia and also a place where motor vehicles can roam unfettered as once ago. Door zone bike lanes are a necessary evil in SOME parts of town. I do not know of the municipality that doesn't make Greenways and/or sharrows available IN ADDITION to a network of door zone bike lanes. If you are being queried by law enforcement as to why you are not using provided bicycle infrastructure, you are hurting our cause. Instead of imagining death behind every car that you pass in the door zone, why not imagine death behind every car that angrily passes you in the travel lane with their left hand wheels in the oncoming traffic lane? I'm keeping up with my Dutch lessons Boris Johnson notwitstanding. There is a (small) chance Brexit will fail. Hope springs eternal. Is there a chance American cyclists will grow up and stop acting so entitled? Eeesh ... I really hope so, navigating the gender specific pronouns in Deutsche und Nederlands is no assignment for a senior citizen. Think of the seniors ...
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Old 09-17-19, 01:39 PM
  #40  
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That is a tough situation. A busy street with lots of people getting in and out of their cars.

I ride with a rear view mirror. I when the traffic is clear, I take the lane. When a car is passing, I will move into the bicycle lane but I constantly look inside of cars to see if there is someone sitting on the driver's side who might open a door. As soon as it is clear again, I move back out into the traffic lane.

The law in California states that a cyclist must use a bicycle lane if it is present. There are exceptions such as if the lane is obstructed, passing another bicycle, etc. Not using the lane at all can land you a ticket.
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Old 09-17-19, 01:39 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by njkayaker View Post
???

"top speeds of over 120 mph"? What does this have to do with anything?

What the heck are you going on about here?

If you need bicycle lanes to get around, you aren't going to get very far.

That is, very likely, you will have to be able to ride where there are no bicycle lanes.

Bizarre.


I'm assuming people reading are capable of doing a least a little bit of thinking.
As I suspected: you've got nothing. 120 mph is the top speed potential of many production automobilesb but few spend much time exploring those limits. The realities of urban infrastructure and the Motor Vehicle code imposes an upper limit on how much of the speed potential a give car can use. Is it that hard to see the biking parallel? Setting a Strava record in a door zone bike lane might not be a best practice? Maybe ride at a speed from which you can stop in your own length even if it is a much lower speed than your ultimate potential? Ya think. And, no, I don't need bike lanes to get around but where there ARE bike lanes. Well around here you better use them. As for bizarre ... that last line of your post is textbook bizarre. Seriously, wut??
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Old 09-17-19, 01:45 PM
  #42  
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How hard would it be to fit a door with a motion sensor alarm?
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Old 09-17-19, 01:46 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
Originally Posted by Miele Man View Post
You have a LOT LESS chance of being rear ended in the traffic lane than you do of being hit and deflected into that traffic lane after an opening door hits you.
Credible source for this factoid?
There is no way that the data for that would ever be collected.

Bicycling safety experts appear to, near-universally, say not to ride in the door zone. They wouldn't recommend that if they thought it was more risky to ride out of the door zone.

Note that the particular example in the OP is, it seems, a slow (25 mph) street.
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Old 09-17-19, 01:47 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
As I suspected: you've got nothing.
No, you just aren't thinking.

Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
120 mph is the top speed potential of many production automobilesb ....
So what? What the heck does that have to do with driving in on a 25 mph street?

Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
Setting a Strava record in a door zone bike lane might not be a best practice?
Who the heck is talking about "Setting a Strava record in a door zone"???

Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
Maybe ride at a speed from which you can stop in your own length even if it is a much lower speed than your ultimate potential? Ya think.
This won't always work,

Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
As for bizarre ... that last line of your post is textbook bizarre. Seriously, wut??
It's a simple question. It says a lot that you don't understand it.

Last edited by njkayaker; 09-17-19 at 01:55 PM.
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Old 09-17-19, 01:50 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by BobbyG View Post
How hard would it be to fit a door with a motion sensor alarm?
How would that work?

People often open the door fairly rapidly. It would be already in motion (and a hazard).

Many newer cars have blind spot detectors in their mirrors. Those might be able to detect motion before the door is opened.
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Old 09-17-19, 01:57 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by SactoDoug View Post
The law in California states that a cyclist must use a bicycle lane if it is present. There are exceptions such as if the lane is obstructed, passing another bicycle, etc. Not using the lane at all can land you a ticket.
The exceptions aren't limited to those listed.

The choice is between possibly getting doored or possibly getting a ticket.

Which is more likely? Which is more "costly"?

There might also be an option to use a road that doesn't have the lane in the door-zone.

Last edited by njkayaker; 09-17-19 at 02:00 PM.
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Old 09-17-19, 02:14 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by njkayaker View Post
The exceptions aren't limited to those listed.

The choice is between possibly getting doored or possibly getting a ticket.

Which is more likely?

Which is more "costly"?
Hmmm. In 45+ years of mainly urban cycling a real dooring has never happened. Two or three dooring scares that never even resulted in a fall. Traffic stops by law enforcement while riding a bike? Eight or nine, easy. Just about all of them for left turn on red left turn signal that did not pick-up my bike. No tickets. But a ticket for riding out of the bike lane when one is present would be $225 and my demographic does not get any breaks where the law is concerned. I use the bike lane if one is present. Unless I am making a left turn. I try not to actually have to argue with 2 ton cars about getting over to the left lane. I'll signal once and if they blow past me I take it as a "no, hell no" and proceed to the traffic signal and cross left with pedestrians and/or cars moving in that direction. I have to say that as I am out and about I do not see any cyclists spurning bike lanes, door zone or otherwise. I'm not calling you a liar ... exactly. But I am really curious about how much practicing of what one preaches actually goes on in these forums.
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Old 09-17-19, 02:27 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
Hmmm. In 45+ years of mainly urban cycling a real dooring has never happened.
To you.

https://gothamist.com/news/what-is-n...ically-nothing

Find a creditable bicycling safety expert that recommends riding in the door zone.

Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
If that bike lane is in the door zone, they ALL are.
But I am really curious about how much practicing of what one preaches actually goes on in these forums.
You think that all bicycle lanes are in the door zone or none of them are!

Last edited by njkayaker; 09-17-19 at 02:36 PM.
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Old 09-17-19, 02:51 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by njkayaker View Post
Find a creditable bicycling safety expert that recommends riding in the door zone.
Well, there’s always the incredible bicycling safety “experts” who claim that the door zone extends 14 feet from the curb. So that means on a 17 foot wide cub lane, you’ll be next to the center line of the road.

In lanes narrower than 17 feet, these “experts” recommend that you ride in the door zone rather than into oncoming traffic.

-mr. bill
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Old 09-17-19, 02:56 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by njkayaker View Post
There is no way that the data for that would ever be collected.

Bicycling safety experts appear to, near-universally, say not to ride in the door zone. They wouldn't recommend that if they thought it was more risky to ride out of the door zone.

Note that the particular example in the OP is, it seems, a slow (25 mph) street.
I have I-like-to-bike on my ignore list.

I know chap who, on his bicycle, tried to pass a stopped taxi cab. He did that without leaving the door zone and going into the next lane. The driver opened his door, the bicyclist hit it dead on and went over the handlebar and door. He had some permanent back injuries and sued for one million dollars and was awarded five hundred thousand. That was one time when I think fault was 50-50. The bicyclist should have moved into the adjacent lane to pass and the driver should have looked better before opening the door.

That brings up another safety point when bicycling in traffic. MANY drivers can NOT accurately judge the speed of an approaching bicycle whether the bicycle is overtaking the vehicle or approaching the vehicle. Thus you need to watch very carefully for vehicles to start turning in front of you or pulling out in front of you. that's another good reason to ride in the traffic lane itself = you have a better chance of being seen and you have more room to maneuver.

Cheers
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