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When ignorant cops think they know the law

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When ignorant cops think they know the law

Old 10-01-19, 03:53 PM
  #76  
Lemond1985
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You can't trust 'em. They're like the religious people who go door to door, in that no matter how friendly and casual chatting with them might seem, you know the subject of that conversation is always gonna return to "what can I charge this guy with?"
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Old 10-01-19, 06:05 PM
  #77  
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Originally Posted by KraneXL View Post
Because we don't live in a police state, and it opens the door to even more police corruption and abuse of power. It was an unnecessary stop in the first place, so no investigative actions after the fact can be justified.
The cop erroneously stopped him due to his misunderstanding of the law. If the guy had a warrant he'd have gone to jail regardless. They wouldn't kick him loose just because the cop misunderstood the law. Had the guy been arrested for some other offense at the scene, then a good lawyer could get that charge dismissed due to the incorrect reason for the stop. However, if the cop had a hard time seeing the cyclist as he said, then it could be considered a safety stop. That would be something for the courts to decide. However, if someone has a warrant they're going to jail no matter the reason for the stop. Warrants don't get dismissed because the person with the warrant was pulled over on a traffic stop for false reasons.

Again, the cop sent him on his way after stopping him for maybe 10 minutes, didn't want to write him a ticket or anything, just warned him that he was hard to see and checked him for warrants, saw he was clean and then kicked him loose. Again, much ado about nothing.
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Old 10-01-19, 07:37 PM
  #78  
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Originally Posted by Milton Keynes View Post
The cop erroneously stopped him due to his misunderstanding of the law. If the guy had a warrant he'd have gone to jail regardless. They wouldn't kick him loose just because the cop misunderstood the law. Had the guy been arrested for some other offense at the scene, then a good lawyer could get that charge dismissed due to the incorrect reason for the stop.
Prorogue much?

In fact, had he had a warrant, he would have been arrested, but then may have been released due to the error.

However, had the search subsequent to arrest turned up something as minor as a “recreational” quantity of drugs, then he could be arrested and not released, tried, and then even convicted. See Utah v. Strieff, and Sotomayor’s brilliant dissent on how that makes absolutely no sense.

“Do not be soothed by the opinion’s technical language: This case allows the police to stop you on the street, demand your identification, and check it for outstanding traffic warrants—even if you are doing nothing wrong.”

-mr. bill

Last edited by mr_bill; 10-01-19 at 07:54 PM.
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Old 10-01-19, 09:31 PM
  #79  
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Originally Posted by Milton Keynes View Post
The cop erroneously stopped him due to his misunderstanding of the law. If the guy had a warrant he'd have gone to jail regardless. They wouldn't kick him loose just because the cop misunderstood the law. Had the guy been arrested for some other offense at the scene, then a good lawyer could get that charge dismissed due to the incorrect reason for the stop. However, if the cop had a hard time seeing the cyclist as he said, then it could be considered a safety stop. That would be something for the courts to decide. However, if someone has a warrant they're going to jail no matter the reason for the stop. Warrants don't get dismissed because the person with the warrant was pulled over on a traffic stop for false reasons.

Again, the cop sent him on his way after stopping him for maybe 10 minutes, didn't want to write him a ticket or anything, just warned him that he was hard to see and checked him for warrants, saw he was clean and then kicked him loose. Again, much ado about nothing.
That was 10 minutes too long for a law abiding citizen. Policing by assuming guilt first then having the citizen to prove their innocence? Not sure where or why you come to that conclusion but its certainly not something I'd surrender my rights to. Not on my watch.
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Old 10-01-19, 09:37 PM
  #80  
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Originally Posted by KraneXL View Post
That was 10 minutes too long for a law abiding citizen. Policing by assuming guilt first then having the citizen to prove their innocence? Not sure where or why you come to that conclusion but its certainly not something I'd surrender my rights to. Not on my watch.
Really? If you are cycling or driving a motor vehicle and an LEO blinks his lights and tries to pull you over, what do yuo plan to do - step on the throttle or up your cadence? Really?

And if you should decide to stop in order to read the riot act to the LEO about his "ignorance", and the LEO asks your name are you going to go mute and take whatever comes next, all for the sake of a stupid YouTube video appreciated only by dimwits who like that sort of BS?
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Old 10-02-19, 07:34 AM
  #81  
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Originally Posted by KraneXL View Post
That was 10 minutes too long for a law abiding citizen. Policing by assuming guilt first then having the citizen to prove their innocence? Not sure where or why you come to that conclusion but its certainly not something I'd surrender my rights to. Not on my watch.
I'd be a lot more sympathetic to this argument if the guy's actions and arguing hadn't prolonged the encounter wayyyy beyond the point where the officer tried to end it.

He's told he's free to go about 4 minutes into the stop, then proceeds to insist that the cop write him a ticket and plead his case to a second cop who came on the scene for about 2 minutes.

Last edited by livedarklions; 10-02-19 at 07:46 AM.
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Old 10-02-19, 07:44 AM
  #82  
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Originally Posted by Daniel4 View Post
Just get a bloody light.
I agree, but that fool will refuse, even if it kills him.

Like was said up above, it'll sort itself out soon enough.
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Old 10-02-19, 12:28 PM
  #83  
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Originally Posted by KraneXL View Post
That was 10 minutes too long for a law abiding citizen. Policing by assuming guilt first then having the citizen to prove their innocence? Not sure where or why you come to that conclusion but its certainly not something I'd surrender my rights to. Not on my watch.
What guilt was assumed? A police officer is not required to write everyone they pull over a ticket, and it doesn't sound like he had any intention of writing him one. Just a warning that he was hard to see without a light on the rear of his bike. Basically just a safety stop with a routine warrant check.

Seriously, if I were riding at night and my taillight quit working, and a cop stopped me to let me know I was hard to see, I'd be grateful.

Last edited by Milton Keynes; 10-02-19 at 12:36 PM.
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Old 10-02-19, 01:38 PM
  #84  
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Originally Posted by mr_bill View Post
In fact, had he had a warrant, he would have been arrested, but then may have been released due to the error.
Uh, no. They wouldn't dismiss a warrant just because the cop who apprehended him did so because he was mistaken about bicycle taillights. A warrant is issued by a judge, and a warrant for a charge unrelated to the traffic stop would not just be thrown out, nor would they release him with the warrant still standing. That would be stupid, because all an officer would have to do is just wait for him to leave the courtroom and rearrest him on said warrant.

However, had the search subsequent to arrest turned up something as minor as a “recreational” quantity of drugs, then he could be arrested and not released, tried, and then even convicted. See Utah v. Strieff, and Sotomayor’s brilliant dissent on how that makes absolutely no sense.
Yes, if the arrest occurred due to the warrant. However, if he had no warrant and was arrested for possession of drugs after a search because of the traffic stop, then that would easily be thrown out if the cop maintained that he pulled him over due to no taillight on the bicycle. "Fruit of the poisonous tree," as it's called. However, for any search to happen the guy would have to be stupid enough to give consent, since for an infraction there's not really any justification for a personal search.

But at any rate, we're getting way the heck off the topic with all these "what if's" since that's obviously not what happened here. The guy was not searched, he had no warrants, the cop didn't cite him, so it was little more than a "citizen contact" type stop that the guy's making a mountain out of a molehill. Again, had it happened to me, if I on my bicycle were hard to see by motorists, I'd be grateful for the info because I really don't want to get run over by a motorist who can't see me. And I don't care if a cop wants to run me for warrants because I know that I've never had a warrant in my life, nor plan to.
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Old 10-03-19, 04:54 AM
  #85  
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Originally Posted by Milton Keynes View Post
What guilt was assumed? A police officer is not required to write everyone they pull over a ticket, and it doesn't sound like he had any intention of writing him one. Just a warning that he was hard to see without a light on the rear of his bike. Basically just a safety stop with a routine warrant check.

Seriously, if I were riding at night and my taillight quit working, and a cop stopped me to let me know I was hard to see, I'd be grateful.
In Germany, you would not be allowed to ride your bike. A German colleague told me a story about friends who were caught by the police without working taillights. They were not ticketed, but the officer followed them as they walked their bikes home.
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Old 11-01-19, 12:36 AM
  #86  
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I do not care if riding at night in that area is legal without a proper light setup. If I am riding at night I will be lit up brighter than a Christmas tree.
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Old 11-01-19, 12:42 AM
  #87  
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Police don't spend time following cyclist for light infractions. There's something fishy going on in all of these instances that's more than meets the eye.
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Old 11-01-19, 10:05 PM
  #88  
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Originally Posted by KraneXL View Post
Police don't spend time following cyclist for light infractions. There's something fishy going on in all of these instances that's more than meets the eye.
bs
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Old 11-06-19, 05:26 PM
  #89  
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Originally Posted by Milton Keynes View Post
The cyclist is indeed correct in that no rear light is required, and the cop is wrong. However, for safety's sake, it's an incredibly smart idea to run rear red lights at night, along with reflectors. And with this guy's rear rack, I can see how the reflector is being obscured. He really should put a light on the rear of that bike.

I don't think his rights were being violated, it was a valid stop if the cop was having a hard time seeing the cyclist. But yes, it could have been a pretense for a warrant check, since most cops check everyone they deal with for warrants just as a matter of procedure. Source: My 15 years as a police dispatcher.

So all in all, this is much ado about nothing. Maybe the cop didn't know the law (and should look it up if he's not sure) but he apparently just wanted to warn the guy that he's not very visible to motorists and send him on his way.
And run him for warrants. Casting that wide net.
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Old 11-06-19, 07:49 PM
  #90  
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Originally Posted by ls01 View Post
And run him for warrants. Casting that wide net.
So... would you rather the police just ignore people with warrants?
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Old 11-07-19, 02:45 AM
  #91  
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Originally Posted by Milton Keynes View Post
So... would you rather the police just ignore people with warrants?
I would rather they not use profiling for random stops to question people for criminality. If he's being stopped for the light, why is he asking question about where he comes from? What does any of that have to do with not being able to see him at night?
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