Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Advocacy & Safety
Reload this Page >

Saw this Tuesday morning riding to work.

Notices
Advocacy & Safety Cyclists should expect and demand safe accommodation on every public road, just as do all other users. Discuss your bicycle advocacy and safety concerns here.

Saw this Tuesday morning riding to work.

Old 09-29-19, 09:52 AM
  #26  
dedhed
SE Wis
 
dedhed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 9,627

Bikes: '68 Raleigh Sprite, '02 Raleigh C500, '84 Raleigh Gran Prix, '91 Trek 400, 2013 Novara Randonee, 1990 Trek 970

Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2369 Post(s)
Liked 2,645 Times in 1,612 Posts
Originally Posted by Daniel4 View Post
I can imagine the city council debate. One person will see all the memorials and say something about road safety. And the other councillor will see all the memorials and say they're ruining the looks of the city.
No local politician wants their city to appear dangerous.
dedhed is offline  
Old 09-29-19, 10:09 AM
  #27  
KraneXL
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: La-la Land, CA
Posts: 3,623

Bikes: Cannondale Quick SL1 Bike - 2014

Mentioned: 32 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3405 Post(s)
Liked 240 Times in 185 Posts
Originally Posted by bobwysiwyg View Post
I'm sure I'll get some flak for this, well intentioned I'm sure, but I feel they become roadside distractions and I don't think we need more distractions.
People make the same claim about billboards (especially on the freeway). But they keep getting bigger and brighter everyday. The "Drive Safely" sign is a good solution.

KraneXL is offline  
Likes For KraneXL:
Old 09-29-19, 10:24 AM
  #28  
bobwysiwyg
Senior Member
 
bobwysiwyg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: 961' 42.28° N, 83.78° W (A2)
Posts: 2,344

Bikes: Mongoose Selous, Trek DS

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 941 Post(s)
Liked 319 Times in 189 Posts
Originally Posted by Daniel4 View Post
I read that was one of the reasons too.

But isn't that the point of the memorial?
I'm not always sure of the point. If it is merely that someone died there, that's one thing, still a distraction to me. If it is intended as something of an object lesson, without details of the circumstances, what's the lesson? We have one where I live, been there for 2-3 years. Vehicle driver was not at fault, how's a passerby (driving or riding) to know the point other than being briefly distracted.
bobwysiwyg is offline  
Old 09-29-19, 10:25 AM
  #29  
Daniel4
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Toronto
Posts: 3,335

Bikes: Sekine 1979 ten speed racer

Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1405 Post(s)
Liked 549 Times in 373 Posts
Originally Posted by KraneXL View Post
People make the same claim about billboards (especially on the freeway). But they keep getting bigger and brighter everyday. The "Drive Safely" sign is a good solution.

The solid concrete post is a good idea. But drivers have also been known to smash into them.
Daniel4 is offline  
Old 09-29-19, 10:31 AM
  #30  
Daniel4
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Toronto
Posts: 3,335

Bikes: Sekine 1979 ten speed racer

Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1405 Post(s)
Liked 549 Times in 373 Posts
Originally Posted by bobwysiwyg View Post
I'm not always sure of the point. If it is merely that someone died there, that's one thing, still a distraction to me. If it is intended as something of an object lesson, without details of the circumstances, what's the lesson? We have one where I live, been there for 2-3 years. Vehicle driver was not at fault, how's a passerby (driving or riding) to know the point other than being briefly distracted.
There always will be a certain percentage of people where an obvious message will never be understood regardless of what the issue.

That's why road safety is so challenging to achieve.
Daniel4 is offline  
Old 09-30-19, 08:00 AM
  #31  
livedarklions
High Performance Noodler
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 14,428

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM

Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7599 Post(s)
Liked 7,970 Times in 4,473 Posts
Originally Posted by Daniel4 View Post
There always will be a certain percentage of people where an obvious message will never be understood regardless of what the issue.

That's why road safety is so challenging to achieve.
To me, one of the "obvious messages" erecting bikes as permanent memorials sends is that bicycling is extremely dangerous and you shouldn't do it. I don't think that's the intention of people putting them up, but I think it's extremely likely how they will be perceived.
livedarklions is offline  
Old 09-30-19, 08:13 AM
  #32  
Lemond1985
Sophomore Member
 
Lemond1985's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 2,690
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1627 Post(s)
Liked 1,053 Times in 628 Posts
That, and the other message is that maybe cyclists aren't all that bright.

Lemond1985 is offline  
Old 09-30-19, 09:48 AM
  #33  
Daniel4
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Toronto
Posts: 3,335

Bikes: Sekine 1979 ten speed racer

Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1405 Post(s)
Liked 549 Times in 373 Posts
Yes, exactly. Someone will always blame the victim.

This is probably what happens at city council when discussing memorials.
Daniel4 is offline  
Old 09-30-19, 03:13 PM
  #34  
Milton Keynes
Senior Member
 
Milton Keynes's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 3,921

Bikes: Trek 1100 road bike, Roadmaster gravel/commuter/beater mountain bike

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2259 Post(s)
Liked 1,678 Times in 921 Posts
Originally Posted by FiftySix View Post
I was thinking the dark marks on the concrete and tires are mold from lack of enough sunlight from the shade created by the bike. Agree the sign and bike look like they were struck by something, the left chainstay looks broken.
On the google maps street view picture there are no dark marks on the sidewalk, but who knows how long ago that picture was taken? I thought the mark on the lower part of the rear wheel might be mold, but then on a closer look at the other side of the wheel I think it's a tire mark from the car that ran the sign over. Still no idea what the black spots on the ground are, though.
Milton Keynes is offline  
Old 09-30-19, 05:22 PM
  #35  
FiftySix
I'm the anecdote.
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: S.E. Texas
Posts: 1,824

Bikes: '12 Schwinn, '13 Norco

Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1110 Post(s)
Liked 1,175 Times in 794 Posts
Originally Posted by Milton Keynes View Post
On the google maps street view picture there are no dark marks on the sidewalk, but who knows how long ago that picture was taken? I thought the mark on the lower part of the rear wheel might be mold, but then on a closer look at the other side of the wheel I think it's a tire mark from the car that ran the sign over. Still no idea what the black spots on the ground are, though.
Black on the ground and the bottom of the tires is what I think is moldy mildewed concrete. I've pressure washed my share of concrete that doesn't get enough sunlight, and the concrete tends to look like what's in the photo. On brick, a green mossy substance seems to form in the same conditions. At least here on the Gulf Coast.

Agree with you and dedhed about the tread marks on the upper portion of the rear wheel.
FiftySix is offline  
Old 10-03-19, 06:48 AM
  #36  
livedarklions
High Performance Noodler
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 14,428

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM

Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7599 Post(s)
Liked 7,970 Times in 4,473 Posts
Having read the other comments and looking more closely at the picture, I think it's obvious that I was wrong, and it was struck by a vehicle. Besides the tell-tale marks identified by almost everyone but me, there is a very clear impact bending of one of the yellow markers on the post. I don't know whether that striking was accidental or intentional however.
livedarklions is offline  
Old 10-03-19, 07:06 AM
  #37  
livedarklions
High Performance Noodler
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 14,428

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM

Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7599 Post(s)
Liked 7,970 Times in 4,473 Posts
Originally Posted by Daniel4 View Post
Yes, exactly. Someone will always blame the victim.

This is probably what happens at city council when discussing memorials.
Whoa, back up. My point is specific to ghost bikes, not memorials in general. I don't think the message of this practice has been well thought out. People seeing these who did not know the rider--basically almost everyone seeing them--are only being told that a bike rider was killed at this spot. Memorials generally don't consist of the object the person was on when they died or the instrument of their killing--people who die in bed aren't commemorated by ghost beds, drivers aren't commemorated by ghost cars, stroke deaths aren't commemorated by giant ghost clots, pedestrians aren't commemorated by ghost shoes. By emphasizing the bike as the object, repetition of this symbol sends the message that bicycling is causing the deaths. If the intended audience is drivers to tell them to be more careful, there's a lot of reasons it's poorly designed, not least of which is that to a passing motorist, they likely won't notice much of anything other than a chained white bike. But I think the message they're likely to get if they do know what it is is that getting out of their car and onto a bike is dangerous.
livedarklions is offline  
Old 10-03-19, 07:20 AM
  #38  
Lemond1985
Sophomore Member
 
Lemond1985's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 2,690
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1627 Post(s)
Liked 1,053 Times in 628 Posts
Memorials generally don't consist of the object the person was on when they died or the instrument of their killing--people who die in bed aren't commemorated by ghost beds, drivers aren't commemorated by ghost cars, stroke deaths aren't commemorated by giant ghost clots, pedestrians aren't commemorated by ghost shoes.
During my travels, I discovered that in Dallas Texas, US presidents who are assassinated are commemorated with a small "X" in the road on the spot where it happened.

Lemond1985 is offline  
Old 10-03-19, 09:34 AM
  #39  
Daniel4
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Toronto
Posts: 3,335

Bikes: Sekine 1979 ten speed racer

Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1405 Post(s)
Liked 549 Times in 373 Posts
Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
Whoa, back up. My point is specific to ghost bikes, not memorials in general. I don't think the message of this practice has been well thought out. People seeing these who did not know the rider--basically almost everyone seeing them--are only being told that a bike rider was killed at this spot. Memorials generally don't consist of the object the person was on when they died or the instrument of their killing--people who die in bed aren't commemorated by ghost beds, drivers aren't commemorated by ghost cars, stroke deaths aren't commemorated by giant ghost clots, pedestrians aren't commemorated by ghost shoes. By emphasizing the bike as the object, repetition of this symbol sends the message that bicycling is causing the deaths. If the intended audience is drivers to tell them to be more careful, there's a lot of reasons it's poorly designed, not least of which is that to a passing motorist, they likely won't notice much of anything other than a chained white bike. But I think the message they're likely to get if they do know what it is is that getting out of their car and onto a bike is dangerous.
Interesting how you compare a medical condition to road fatalities as if they are equivalent.

Maybe we should install memorials at the HQs of fast food restaurants, food manufactures and cigarette companies.

Maybe we should install white ghost vehicles at all the locations where motorists and passengers have been killed to instill the message how dangerous driving really is.

If the messages are all missed, and viewed as eyesores, then we might as well remove all road and traffic signs. You know, the ones that say Stop, Yield, Slow, Maximum, No Parking, No Left Turn, No Right Turn, Do Not Enter. Every one of those indicate how dangerous driving is. And all those signs really are an eyesore.
Daniel4 is offline  
Old 10-03-19, 09:40 AM
  #40  
livedarklions
High Performance Noodler
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 14,428

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM

Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7599 Post(s)
Liked 7,970 Times in 4,473 Posts
Originally Posted by Daniel4 View Post
Interesting how you compare a medical condition to road fatalities as if they are equivalent.

Maybe we should install memorials at the HQs of fast food restaurants, food manufactures and cigarette companies.

Maybe we should install white ghost vehicles at all the locations where motorists and passengers have been killed to instill the message how dangerous driving really is.

If the messages are all missed, and viewed as eyesores, then we might as well remove all road and traffic signs. You know, the ones that say Stop, Yield, Slow, Maximum, No Parking, No Left Turn, No Right Turn, Do Not Enter. Every one of those indicate how dangerous driving is. And all those signs really are an eyesore.
I'm going to leave you to play with your strawman collection on your own. You're working way too hard to miss the point to be worth talking to.
livedarklions is offline  
Old 10-04-19, 08:50 PM
  #41  
Milton Keynes
Senior Member
 
Milton Keynes's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 3,921

Bikes: Trek 1100 road bike, Roadmaster gravel/commuter/beater mountain bike

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2259 Post(s)
Liked 1,678 Times in 921 Posts
Originally Posted by Daniel4 View Post
Maybe we should install white ghost vehicles at all the locations where motorists and passengers have been killed to instill the message how dangerous driving really is.
They already do that with little white crosses.
Milton Keynes is offline  
Likes For Milton Keynes:
Old 10-05-19, 06:03 AM
  #42  
mr_bill
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 4,501
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2092 Post(s)
Liked 638 Times in 429 Posts
Originally Posted by Milton Keynes View Post
They already do that with little white crosses.
Apparently those aren’t well thought out either since that sends the message that religion is dangerous.

-mr. bill
mr_bill is offline  
Old 10-05-19, 06:58 AM
  #43  
KraneXL
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: La-la Land, CA
Posts: 3,623

Bikes: Cannondale Quick SL1 Bike - 2014

Mentioned: 32 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3405 Post(s)
Liked 240 Times in 185 Posts
Careful of those bad words. You wouldn't want to get an infraction.
KraneXL is offline  
Old 10-09-19, 12:55 PM
  #44  
livedarklions
High Performance Noodler
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 14,428

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM

Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7599 Post(s)
Liked 7,970 Times in 4,473 Posts
Originally Posted by Milton Keynes View Post
They already do that with little white crosses.
Originally Posted by mr_bill View Post
Apparently those aren’t well thought out either since that sends the message that religion is dangerous.

-mr. bill
Gosh, Bill, what possible symbolic difference could there be between a little white cross vs. a big white bike on the roadside? Wow, that's a real head-scratcher!

If you can't make out the obvious "ride a bike and die" implications of putting these things around, that's not on me.
livedarklions is offline  
Old 10-09-19, 05:32 PM
  #45  
Pratt
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 828
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 310 Post(s)
Liked 328 Times in 203 Posts
I'm neither for or against the roadside memorials. I always feel a little sad and solemn when I see them, and wonder why Jewish people seem to be better drivers than Christians
Pratt is offline  
Likes For Pratt:
Old 10-10-19, 07:15 AM
  #46  
Milton Keynes
Senior Member
 
Milton Keynes's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 3,921

Bikes: Trek 1100 road bike, Roadmaster gravel/commuter/beater mountain bike

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2259 Post(s)
Liked 1,678 Times in 921 Posts
Originally Posted by Pratt View Post
I'm neither for or against the roadside memorials. I always feel a little sad and solemn when I see them, and wonder why Jewish people seem to be better drivers than Christians
Everyone knows that Jewish people drive with their hands at 10 & 2 and eyes straight ahead, phones down.

The funny thing is that with those little roadside memorials is that they're not just on sharp curves, but I see most of them on flat straightaways.
Milton Keynes is offline  
Old 10-10-19, 07:23 AM
  #47  
Lemond1985
Sophomore Member
 
Lemond1985's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 2,690
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1627 Post(s)
Liked 1,053 Times in 628 Posts
Died while passing maybe? I've often wondered the same thing. Maybe they died in the ambulance in that spot, or possibly they were "thrown clear" and landed some distance from the actual impact.

Would be interesting to see a breakdown, but I bet a lot of these fatal wrecks happened at night, with alcohol being a factor in probably half.
Lemond1985 is offline  
Likes For Lemond1985:
Old 10-10-19, 09:36 AM
  #48  
livedarklions
High Performance Noodler
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 14,428

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM

Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7599 Post(s)
Liked 7,970 Times in 4,473 Posts
Originally Posted by Milton Keynes View Post
Everyone knows that Jewish people drive with their hands at 10 & 2 and eyes straight ahead, phones down.

The funny thing is that with those little roadside memorials is that they're not just on sharp curves, but I see most of them on flat straightaways.
I suspect that the qualities that make a dangerous curve dangerous have a big overlap with the qualities that make a memorial hard to spot.

Oh, and there's this:


Source: https://agraveinterest.blogspot.com/2...memorials.html
livedarklions is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2023 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.