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Tokyo considering mandatory cyclist liability insurance

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Tokyo considering mandatory cyclist liability insurance

Old 10-24-19, 08:35 PM
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scott967
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Tokyo considering mandatory cyclist liability insurance

Saw an article on this in the local paper and seems to have been sourced from this: https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/20...ise-accidents/ The logic seems kind of strange (pointing to a 2013 accident between 11-year old bike rider and ped) as proving the "need" for this. I imagine the "rise in accidents" is motorist hitting cyclist (no indication in the article).

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Old 10-25-19, 05:44 AM
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I looked for a reasonable liability only cycling policy a few years back and came up empty.
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Old 10-25-19, 07:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Paul Barnard View Post
I looked for a reasonable liability only cycling policy a few years back and came up empty.
I just googled this, and some sources indicate that renters and homeowners insurance may provide some liability coverage.
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Old 10-25-19, 08:43 PM
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I would have to think the liability exposure is pretty limited. Def more likely someone slips/falls at your
home.

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Old 10-26-19, 11:00 AM
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Actually your insurance agent can get you a personal liability rider for a million dollars really cheap.
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Old 10-26-19, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by rydabent View Post
Actually your insurance agent can get you a personal liability rider for a million dollars really cheap.
I was wondering if an umbrella policy would cover damage to a car if I hit one on my bike. Heck, hit a Bently or the like and it could be expensive.
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Old 10-26-19, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Paul Barnard View Post
I was wondering if an umbrella policy would cover damage to a car if I hit one on my bike. Heck, hit a Bently or the like and it could be expensive.
If I was worried about hitting a car hard enough to cause serious damage to it, I would be far more concerned about damage to my body. The liklihood of my being the cause of serious damage to a Bentley or the like is close to nil.
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Old 10-26-19, 03:24 PM
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Because Federalism, in the US, its a state by state question.

But in general, your auto insurance covers you for road incidents, even on a bicycle.

(For details of the wisdom of auto insurance even if you dont own autos, see LCF.)

However, your homeowners or renters insurance MAY cover you, talk to your insurance company, you should look into riders.

Other than that, What-Me-Worry...



-mr.bill

Last edited by mr_bill; 10-27-19 at 07:24 PM.
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Old 10-26-19, 06:55 PM
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Here's my thought about insurance for cyclists: Go ahead, make my day.

My rationale is that insurance companies compete for business by trying to provide better rates. Most of us who ride, still drive, and need car insurance. It would make sense for our insurance providers to offer cyclist coverage as an add-on to a regular auto insurance package for most people in the US.

The insurance companies know that every minute spent on a bike is a minute not spent in a car, and cyclists have lower liability risk. Also, cyclists are better car drivers. For these reasons, insurance companies should compete by offering lower overall rates to cyclists. In a similar fashion, I pay less for my health insurance because I ride my bike every day.

Sign me up.

At the same time, I also believe that regulations need to solve a significant problem in order to be justified. At least in the US, uninsured non-drivers injuring people while riding a bike just doesn't rise to the level of being a public policy issue at all.
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Old 10-26-19, 07:49 PM
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No one with significant assets should be without an umbrella policy.
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Old 10-26-19, 08:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Gresp15C View Post
It would make sense for our insurance providers to offer cyclist coverage as an add-on to a regular auto insurance package for most people in the US.
Why an add-on if the cyclist is already covered with a regular auto insurance package ?

Originally Posted by Gresp15C View Post
Also, cyclists are better car drivers.
Are you sure about that? Any reference for this factoid? Are all cyclists better drivers or just the enthusiasts who would think it is so?

Originally Posted by Gresp15C View Post
At least in the US, uninsured non-drivers injuring people while riding a bike just doesn't rise to the level of being a public policy issue at all.
B-b-but what about all those Bentleys damaged by irresponsible uninsured cyclists? Those 1%ers' interests have to be protected from the reckless rabble!

Last edited by I-Like-To-Bike; 10-26-19 at 09:05 PM.
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Old 10-26-19, 09:32 PM
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percentage of traffic accidents in the capital involving cyclists stood at 36.1 percent in 2018, up from 33.4 percent in 2017. This is significantly higher than the nationwide average of 19.1 percent,
But... how many bicycle accidents caused by the cyclist cause serious injuries to others?

Property damage attributed to cyclists?

The story cited two serious injuries. I presume there are more. Perhaps a few hospitalization injuries a year?

But, say one has 5 million cyclists in Tokyo.
And, say there are Five payouts a year of $1 Million (or a total of one big payout, and a bunch of small payouts totaling $5 Million).

That comes up to about $1 per cyclist.

The administration and overhead fees for such a program could be HUGE.

It could well be that for pure liability, society would be much better off with a government pool for shared costs between the cyclist and the government. So, the cyclist wouldn't get off for free, but say 50% of the first $50K of liability, and then the government pays the rest. Payment plan for that first 50%?

Of course, the other issue is people naturally go after the biggest pot. So, give the government a share of the liability, and payments could be through the roof (unless liability limitation is enacted).
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Old 10-27-19, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
If I was worried about hitting a car hard enough to cause serious damage to it, I would be far more concerned about damage to my body. The liklihood of my being the cause of serious damage to a Bentley or the like is close to nil.
Your point is well taken, but just remember a scratch or small dent on a car you caused can cost an arm and a leg these days.
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Old 10-27-19, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by rydabent View Post
Your point is well taken, but just remember a scratch or small dent on a car you caused can cost an arm and a leg these days.
Maybe a pinky.

I can figure out how to cover a paint scratch or minor dent.

If I "total" a car, then that will be the least of my worries.

I just don't ride in a manner that I think I would get more than a 50/50 fault, and likely send both people away to cover their own.

I was yelled at a few days ago for "crossing against the light... except that I wasn't. I hit the crosswalk button. Waited for the signal change, then proceeded. Unfortunately, poor public planning gave the crosswalk & traffic a "go" at the same time. Had I been hit, the liability would have landed solidly on the driver. A turning vehicle can not hit someone in a crosswalk... ever...
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Old 10-27-19, 04:50 PM
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The most relevant scenario is when Plaintiff sues Driver and Driver, in turn, claims you caused them to swerve and damage Plaintiff. This is a particular danger when Plaintiff senses that your pockets are deeper than Driver’s. This, among other reasons, is why I ride around with a 5 mil. per event umbrella.
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Old 10-27-19, 06:56 PM
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Be careful, What-Me-Worry will demand evidence of swerved settlements, and when you produce such evidence, will point out that it is clearly not relevant because disc brakes or rim brakes or carbon fork or steel fork or fenderless or fendered or too many lights or too few lights or....

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Old 10-28-19, 08:37 AM
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I wouldn't assume your auto or home insurance will cover you. If you want to make sure ask them. I was involved in an incident that was my fault riding my bike and it was a "no" from my auto insurance and my home owner's insurance agent literally laugh at me over the phone. It wound up costing me $400 to repair their car. However, I don't think a bike can do that much damage to a car or most property that would make separate insurance worth while.

My worry would be injuring another cyclist or pedestrian while riding. Medical bills can be expensive.
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Old 10-28-19, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by MoAlpha View Post
No one with significant assets should be without an umbrella policy.
Let's me out--I never ride an umbrella.

Mary Poppins, on the other hand....
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Old 10-28-19, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
Let's me out--I never ride an umbrella.

Mary Poppins, on the other hand....
Policy, policy, I said policy, you azes punim!
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Old 10-28-19, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by MoAlpha View Post
Policy, policy, I said policy, you azes punim!
I wanted to be a policy rider, but I couldn't find a saddle.
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Old 10-28-19, 06:05 PM
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The famously law-abiding Swiss, who used to have a mandatory cyclist insurance scheme, abandoned it a year or three back as it cost more to collect than they received and it wasn't, in any case worth it as the injury/damage rate to other road users was too low to make it worthwhile
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Old 10-28-19, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by MoAlpha View Post
The most relevant scenario is when Plaintiff sues Driver and Driver, in turn, claims you caused them to swerve and damage Plaintiff. This is a particular danger when Plaintiff senses that your pockets are deeper than Drivers. This, among other reasons, is why I ride around with a 5 mil. per event umbrella.

Are you certain it would cover damage to a vehicle if you were at fault?
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Old 10-28-19, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Paul Barnard View Post
Are you certain it would cover damage to a vehicle if you were at fault?
Umbrellas are general liability coverage, so its assumed that youre at fault, and were talking about hurting or killing someone, not scratching a car. I also have a big boat which I race (badly!) and a zip code and letters after my name that make me a target. Umbrellas are cheap protection.
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Old 10-28-19, 09:44 PM
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Yea, just buying a bike from the LBS here prompted a conversation (as best could be had with my limited grasp on the Japanese language) into liability insurance and how it could be mandatory in the near future. I just got it anyway...since the insurance company for the car has a nice addition for bikes.
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Old 10-29-19, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by MoAlpha View Post
Umbrellas are general liability coverage, so its assumed that youre at fault, and were talking about hurting or killing someone, not scratching a car. I also have a big boat which I race (badly!) and a zip code and letters after my name that make me a target. Umbrellas are cheap protection.
I am a boat nut. What kind of races or what circuit? I worked the Lake of The Ozarks Shootout this year. Is that one of the races you compete in?
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