Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Advocacy & Safety
Reload this Page >

Federal Panel Seeks Mandatory Helmet Laws

Notices
Advocacy & Safety Cyclists should expect and demand safe accommodation on every public road, just as do all other users. Discuss your bicycle advocacy and safety concerns here.

Federal Panel Seeks Mandatory Helmet Laws

Old 02-06-20, 10:02 AM
  #126  
livedarklions
High Performance Noodler
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 13,631

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM

Mentioned: 59 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7112 Post(s)
Liked 7,225 Times in 4,052 Posts
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
Since you have resurrected the Dude's previous strange comments on this thread, I thought it time to correct another of the Dude's misstatements directed at me that has been repeated by another poster on this thread. The Dude and livedarklions raised a fabricated strawman that I claimed on another thread to never see a Specialized brand bicycles "in the Land of RAGBRAI" and dissed my powers of observation (and implied I am a liar). I made no such claim in any post on this threads or on any otherthread.

For clarification, on another thread I asked about where was the location of a poster who claimed that a specific high priced model of Specialized - The S-Works was "everywhere" and the Dude has proceeded to go into a misquoting tizzy about a claim from me about never seeing Specialized brand bicycles and therefore don't know what I am posting about, with livedarklions piling on as is his wont. See Original post

Do me a favor, please leave me out of this sleeping dog resurrection. I really don't want to have to discuss your wonts.
livedarklions is offline  
Likes For livedarklions:
Old 02-06-20, 11:29 AM
  #127  
rydabent
Senior Member
 
rydabent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Lincoln Ne
Posts: 9,546

Bikes: RANS Stratus TerraTrike Tour II

Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2902 Post(s)
Liked 906 Times in 535 Posts
Originally Posted by AngeloDolce View Post
I'll cast my vote firmly in the camp of individual helmet use is fine but oppose mandatory helmet laws (MHL).

MHL laws have several common uses:
  1. Motorist liability protection (most frequent). Any bicyclist without a helmet must be reckless, so motorists shouldn't be held liable if they injure them (head or other injury) or damage their bicycles
  2. Reasons for police to cite otherwise legal bicyclists. Seems to be most popular in Australia for cyclists in general; also used in the US for any bicyclists riding where they shouldn't: i.e. on public roads, with bonus points for bicyclists riding in minority neighborhoods (or wealthy areas)
  3. Generates revenue for helmet manufacturers, especially when they recommend replacing helmets that won't biodegrade or decay in landfills with new helmets.
I just don't see any of these as helpful to bicyclists; Item (2) is especially helpful in removing bicyclists from roads where motorists don't want them. (I'll also admit I think the whole "numbers drive safety" argument is reversing cause and effect. If cyclists's rights are respected by police and drivers, people will ride in the Netherlands or Japan. Conversely, requiring the use of poorly designed infrastructure won't increase safety or increase numbers.)

If the NTSA or other bodies were (a) interested in bicyclist safety or (b) thoughts helmets were useful

(a) They'd insist on traffic signals that respond to bicycles (getting better) or even penalizing sober motorists that hit bicyclists riding legally (getting worse) before recommending states require helmets
(b) Motorists suffer far more head injuries than bicyclists - from a public health perspective, it would be far more effective to require helmets for automobile drivers, not just motorcyclists.

I'm not convinced they'll take this seriously enough to withhold significant funds from states that don't impose MHL, but I can't see any states requiring MHL if the federal government does push for them.
One of your points about the helmet is well taken in that if in an accident with a car, the drivers lawyer will insist it is partly your fault for not wearing a helment even is you get a broken leg. Like wise if on a trike having flags is needed for the same reason.
rydabent is offline  
Old 02-06-20, 01:20 PM
  #128  
I-Like-To-Bike
Been Around Awhile
 
I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 29,321

Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked 1,042 Times in 690 Posts
Originally Posted by rydabent View Post
One of your points about the helmet is well taken in that if in an accident with a car, the drivers lawyer will insist it is partly your fault for not wearing a helment even is you get a broken leg.
Lawyers might "insist" anything they like. Any evidence that this moth-eaten cliché is ever effective in a real live court?
I-Like-To-Bike is offline  
Old 02-06-20, 01:29 PM
  #129  
TheDudeIsHere
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 467
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 187 Post(s)
Liked 276 Times in 161 Posts
Nm

Last edited by TheDudeIsHere; 02-06-20 at 01:54 PM.
TheDudeIsHere is offline  
Old 02-06-20, 01:33 PM
  #130  
TheDudeIsHere
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 467
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 187 Post(s)
Liked 276 Times in 161 Posts
Nm

Last edited by TheDudeIsHere; 02-06-20 at 01:54 PM.
TheDudeIsHere is offline  
Old 02-06-20, 01:45 PM
  #131  
livedarklions
High Performance Noodler
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 13,631

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM

Mentioned: 59 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7112 Post(s)
Liked 7,225 Times in 4,052 Posts


Pretty sure it's also decomposed by this point.
livedarklions is offline  
Likes For livedarklions:
Old 02-06-20, 11:16 PM
  #132  
alo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 1,060
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 529 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 255 Times in 185 Posts
I think they should recommend people wear helmets, but not enforce it.

There is so much real crime that the police do not have time to deal with it all. If time is taken up with cyclists not wearing helmets, even less time is available to deal with real crime.
alo is offline  
Likes For alo:
Old 02-07-20, 12:13 AM
  #133  
livedarklions
High Performance Noodler
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 13,631

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM

Mentioned: 59 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7112 Post(s)
Liked 7,225 Times in 4,052 Posts
Originally Posted by alo View Post
I think they should recommend people wear helmets, but not enforce it.

There is so much real crime that the police do not have time to deal with it all. If time is taken up with cyclists not wearing helmets, even less time is available to deal with real crime.
Rumors

I do want police to regulate traffic, but to focus on behaviors that endanger other people. Catching people without helmets is going to be too easy, and they'll end up spending too much time on it as a result. It's low-hanging fruit.
livedarklions is offline  
Old 02-07-20, 07:10 AM
  #134  
rydabent
Senior Member
 
rydabent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Lincoln Ne
Posts: 9,546

Bikes: RANS Stratus TerraTrike Tour II

Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2902 Post(s)
Liked 906 Times in 535 Posts
As with most things unelected back water b'crats that probably know very little about the subject should never be allowed to dictate to people what they should do. For every regulation put in place some one loses their freedom.

How many on that committee actually bike on a regular basis?
rydabent is offline  
Likes For rydabent:
Old 02-07-20, 08:21 AM
  #135  
mr_bill
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 4,492
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2083 Post(s)
Liked 633 Times in 425 Posts
Originally Posted by rydabent View Post
I would really like to know who is on this "FEDERAL PANEL", and if they bike or even own one.
Originally Posted by rydabent View Post
How many on that committee actually bike on a regular basis?
Those of us who forget the past are doomed to, you know, forget like other things, like your car keys, or even your own phone number.”

Or definitely the answers to questions they already asked.

-mr. bill
mr_bill is offline  
Likes For mr_bill:
Old 02-07-20, 11:21 AM
  #136  
livedarklions
High Performance Noodler
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 13,631

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM

Mentioned: 59 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7112 Post(s)
Liked 7,225 Times in 4,052 Posts
Originally Posted by rydabent View Post
As with most things unelected back water b'crats that probably know very little about the subject should never be allowed to dictate to people what they should do. For every regulation put in place some one loses their freedom.

How many on that committee actually bike on a regular basis?
The Victrola is skipping...skipping....skipping.

Asked/asserted and answered on all counts.
livedarklions is offline  
Old 02-08-20, 12:22 PM
  #137  
JW Fas
Cop Magnet
 
JW Fas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 222
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 168 Post(s)
Liked 154 Times in 73 Posts
In one respect I oppose mandatory helmet laws because they violate personal freedom, but then again I kinda hope this goes through so we can exercise malicious compliance. When every cyclist is wearing helmets but the death toll doesn't decrease maybe people will finally address the root cause of the problem, which is two-ton metal cages.
JW Fas is online now  
Old 02-08-20, 06:44 PM
  #138  
livedarklions
High Performance Noodler
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 13,631

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM

Mentioned: 59 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7112 Post(s)
Liked 7,225 Times in 4,052 Posts
Originally Posted by JW Fas View Post
In one respect I oppose mandatory helmet laws because they violate personal freedom, but then again I kinda hope this goes through so we can exercise malicious compliance. When every cyclist is wearing helmets but the death toll doesn't decrease maybe people will finally address the root cause of the problem, which is two-ton metal cages.

Malicious compliance? That's a silly term. What's next-- civil obedience?

Just tell everyone you're wearing your helmet ironically.
livedarklions is offline  
Likes For livedarklions:
Old 02-08-20, 11:56 PM
  #139  
Leisesturm
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 5,199
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1967 Post(s)
Liked 427 Times in 306 Posts
I just spent the better part of a half an hour I will never get back speed reading this thread so I admit I could have missed the thread that mentioned the revenue potential of a law requiring helmet use for adult cyclists. In my city an adult can be (but rarely is, unless ...) stopped if their bicycle does not have: bell, reflectors, 200' lights. Fines start at $200. If you were stopped because a taillight was out on your car the fine would be $65. A cyclist without a helmet sticks out like a sore thumb. There aren't many of them, but were it illegal I can well imagine the fine for not wearing one would be >$300 for a first occurrence, ~$1000 for a second, and that is far more likely the genesis of any proposed legislation vs overwhelming concern for a very small percent of a very small percent of road users. When in doubt, always follow the money.
Leisesturm is offline  
Likes For Leisesturm:
Old 02-09-20, 10:54 AM
  #140  
mr_bill
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 4,492
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2083 Post(s)
Liked 633 Times in 425 Posts
Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
...but were it illegal I can well imagine the fine for not wearing one would be >$300 for a first occurrence, ~$1000 for a second, and that is far more likely the genesis of any proposed legislation vs overwhelming concern for a very small percent of a very small percent of road users. When in doubt, always follow the money.
You can well imagine anything your little heart desires.

One method is hold your breath, make a wish, count to three.

Another is close your eyes, tap your heels together three times, and think to yourself....

Seattle’s fine for example is $30.00, which is waived if you purchase a helmet. Greedy b’crats?

-mr. bill

Last edited by mr_bill; 02-10-20 at 08:50 AM.
mr_bill is offline  
Old 02-09-20, 07:55 PM
  #141  
Leisesturm
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 5,199
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1967 Post(s)
Liked 427 Times in 306 Posts
waived.
Leisesturm is offline  
Old 02-10-20, 01:27 PM
  #142  
TheLizard
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: RVA
Posts: 86

Bikes: 2001 Trek 8000

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 53 Post(s)
Liked 28 Times in 18 Posts
Originally Posted by Moe Zhoost View Post
I would like to think that most representatives are objective and reasonable; however I feel that may not always be the case.
TheLizard is offline  
Old 03-24-20, 09:38 AM
  #143  
rydabent
Senior Member
 
rydabent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Lincoln Ne
Posts: 9,546

Bikes: RANS Stratus TerraTrike Tour II

Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2902 Post(s)
Liked 906 Times in 535 Posts
I bet this "panel" discussed the revenue it would produce. I also bet the never discussed personal freedom. B'crats always want more money.
rydabent is offline  
Old 03-24-20, 10:26 AM
  #144  
livedarklions
High Performance Noodler
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 13,631

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM

Mentioned: 59 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7112 Post(s)
Liked 7,225 Times in 4,052 Posts
Originally Posted by rydabent View Post
I bet this "panel" discussed the revenue it would produce. I also bet the never discussed personal freedom. B'crats always want more money.

Are you seriously going to bump this thread once a month with this stupidity?

Please explain how the NTSB could possibly realize a penny if states and localities collected fines. You are completely ignorant of who this panel is and what they do. So better yet, please just stop posting pointless garbage.

And no, you can actually read what they considered, and the notion of revenues wasn't even the slightest factor in the discussion.
livedarklions is offline  
Likes For livedarklions:
Old 03-26-20, 08:49 AM
  #145  
rydabent
Senior Member
 
rydabent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Lincoln Ne
Posts: 9,546

Bikes: RANS Stratus TerraTrike Tour II

Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2902 Post(s)
Liked 906 Times in 535 Posts
And for every law some dictatorial B'crat dreams up someone loses a little more freedom. Even tho I ride a trike most of the time, I still always wear a helmet. And I do think smart people do. But I still dont like government butting into such things. Besides cyclist that dont wear helmets are usually in excellent health and make good organ donors!!!
rydabent is offline  
Old 03-26-20, 08:53 AM
  #146  
rydabent
Senior Member
 
rydabent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Lincoln Ne
Posts: 9,546

Bikes: RANS Stratus TerraTrike Tour II

Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2902 Post(s)
Liked 906 Times in 535 Posts
And you know all about they panel -------------- how**********
rydabent is offline  
Old 03-26-20, 09:10 AM
  #147  
rydabent
Senior Member
 
rydabent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Lincoln Ne
Posts: 9,546

Bikes: RANS Stratus TerraTrike Tour II

Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2902 Post(s)
Liked 906 Times in 535 Posts
On most forums like this personal attacks are frowned upon. In a short note please tell us all why your opinion on this subject is far superior to mine or others.

Helmet laws are one of the regulations we simply dont need. They will never never be applied evenly. Do you really think the the police should cuff little Susie and drag her off to jail because she dont have a helmet? In today society the police have far more serious work to do than see to it every cyclist has a helmet!!!!!!!!!!!

Further-----------------almost all laws and regulations come with penalties. And it makes no difference if you like it or not B'crats ALWAYS are looking for any revenue stream they can get their grubby hands on.
rydabent is offline  
Old 03-26-20, 01:10 PM
  #148  
livedarklions
High Performance Noodler
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 13,631

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM

Mentioned: 59 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7112 Post(s)
Liked 7,225 Times in 4,052 Posts
Originally Posted by rydabent View Post
It remains they are self centered B'crats that want to control everyones lives. As I posted I never leave the house without a helmet. Stop with all the unnecessary laws and regulations.
Originally Posted by rydabent View Post
I never ride without my helmet, but I hate laws telling people what to do. Just more b'cratic nonsense of gov trying to run peoples lives.
Originally Posted by rydabent View Post
As with most things unelected back water b'crats that probably know very little about the subject should never be allowed to dictate to people what they should do. For every regulation put in place some one loses their freedom.

How many on that committee actually bike on a regular basis?
Originally Posted by rydabent View Post
I bet this "panel" discussed the revenue it would produce. I also bet the never discussed personal freedom. B'crats always want more money.
Originally Posted by rydabent View Post
And for every law some dictatorial B'crat dreams up someone loses a little more freedom. Even tho I ride a trike most of the time, I still always wear a helmet. And I do think smart people do. But I still dont like government butting into such things. Besides cyclist that dont wear helmets are usually in excellent health and make good organ donors!!!

You've literally posted the exact same thing over and over, and when someone refutes every bit of nonsense you post, you just ignore it and repeat the same empty nonsense again.

There's legitimate things to debate about mandatory helmet laws, and frankly, I've said repeatedly that I don't agree with them. But you just keep posting the same tired "bureaucrats this" and "bureaucrats that" and attacking their motivations for insane reasons that have nothing to do with the realities--the NTSB has no interest in collecting fines, fer cryin' out loud.

And I haven't attacked you personally. I've pointed out that your posts are repetitive and contain no real content. When you post the same thing over and over, that's usually considered spamming or trolling.

You obviously bumped this thread to troll a fight. Problem is you aren't posting anything worth discussing.

Maybe you need a catchy slogan-- how about "You can pry my concussed brain from my cold dead hands" or "Keep your laws off my skull fracture"?
livedarklions is offline  
Likes For livedarklions:
Old 03-26-20, 01:24 PM
  #149  
TheLizard
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: RVA
Posts: 86

Bikes: 2001 Trek 8000

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 53 Post(s)
Liked 28 Times in 18 Posts
There really is NOT anything to debate.

Mandatory helmet laws are tyrannical.

The end.
TheLizard is offline  
Likes For TheLizard:
Old 03-26-20, 03:37 PM
  #150  
rydabent
Senior Member
 
rydabent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Lincoln Ne
Posts: 9,546

Bikes: RANS Stratus TerraTrike Tour II

Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2902 Post(s)
Liked 906 Times in 535 Posts
People that dont use seatbelts and bike helmets improve the gene pool.
rydabent is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.