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Cyclists vs. Bikini Barista Owners in PDX

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Cyclists vs. Bikini Barista Owners in PDX

Old 11-11-19, 05:35 AM
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Cyclists vs. Bikini Barista Owners in PDX

Those inconsiderate, violent cyclists. What will they do next?

https://www.oregonlive.com/crime/201...jures-two.html
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Old 11-11-19, 10:19 AM
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Cyclists vs. Bikini Barista Owners in PDX
Originally Posted by bpcyclist View Post
Those inconsiderate, violent cyclists. What will they do next?

https://www.oregonlive.com/crime/201...jures-two.html
I had to ask the question, "What is a Bikini Barista"? Then there was this comment on the Website..."Nice tah tahs crummy coffee"

Hooters for Coffee Drinkers?

Last edited by Jim from Boston; 11-11-19 at 11:59 AM.
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Old 11-11-19, 11:34 AM
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That Elston fellow is a perfect example of why criminal defense lawyers' first piece of advice is that the person not talk about the incident. He admits to smacking a phone out of someone's hand because she was filming like he thinks the fact she was filming was an excuse to assault her. He also says he had a hammer in his hand because he had been fixing a window--while driving?
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Old 11-11-19, 11:39 PM
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In what way is this tawdry piece of ... journalism? Can we call it that? How is this pertaining to cycling Advocacy and Safety? Is it too much to ask for some kind of baseline for what gets forwarded for discussion here?
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Old 11-12-19, 02:19 AM
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Did not intend to offend you or anyone else with this post--many apologies for that. Truly.

That said, to answer your question directly, the post is extremely relevant to any cyclist who operates in an urban environment where bicyclists and motor vehicles must interact on a regular basis, because, as you no doubt must be aware, conflict between cyclists and motorists can be deadly. A motorcyclist has been charged with the murder of a cyclist on a group ride in Key Biscayne in August. A cyclist in a major U.S. city out on a pleasant ride with friends was shot and killed while on his bike. That's an international cycling safety story. Sadly, there are so many other examples of this kind of thing in America, that we could write a novel about it.

So, anyway, cycling safety and advocacy issue number one in the link I posted is the potential life-threatening danger posed to cyclists by motorist who become angry with them, for whatever reason, and who also possess a weapon. The gentleman in the Oregonian story pulled out a hammer. Any big-city police officer will gladly verify that a hammer can be a potentially life-ending weapon. This story could very easily have ended the same way the Miami one did. Easily. It did not, and that's great, but the issue was and is that angry motorists possessing weapons pose a potentially clear and present, deadly danger to cyclists.

The second cycling and advocacy issue here is that these issues between motorists and cyclists happen everywhere. My city, the place in which this story took place, is routinely praised and lauded in the national and international press for its awesome pro-cycling culture. Is routinely ranked in the top 5 U.S, cities for its friendliness and support for cyclists. Maybe that's true, maybe it isn't. But whatever the case, every motorist in this city knows there are cyclists everywhere and that they must aim to peacefully coexist with them. And yet, this fight between cyclists and motorists just took place right in the center of that supposedly cycling-nirvana-city of enlightenment and wonder. Just because you operate in a pro-cycling town, that is no guarantee that all motorists will treat you with respect. It can happen anywhere. So be careful.

The third safety and advocacy issue here is that these conflicts are by their very nature unpredictable and volatile once they start. A female cyclists was allegedly knocked unconscious in this dispute. There was a lethal weapon present. As someone who used to be on the receiving end of deadly conflicts between humans in my professional life, I assure you, this could have ended very differently. We are very fortunate no-one was killed.

All that having been said, I am very sorry I appear to have either offended or simply irritated you with this post. That's not why the post was made and I do not live my life in pursuit of annoying or upsetting or provoking other people. It wasn't supposed to be a tawdry joke or any other kind of joke. It was meant to raise advocacy and safety issues for urban cyclists and remind us that it can be dangerous or disastrous out there. We ought never forget that. You don't know if the person you stupidly decided to just flip off in traffic was just fired or their wife and kids just left them or they were just indicted by the IRS or they have been on a meth bender for a week or they are an off-their-meds-schizophrenic who is floridly psychotic and believes that all cyclists were sent from the planet Zepton 1333 to kill them. You don't know. Have no idea. So, again, be careful.

Hopefully you can see a bit more of why I made the post. If you are still unhappy, though, you should alert an administrator and we can all discuss it together. I'd be more than happy to do that. All the best--
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Old 11-12-19, 04:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Jim from Boston View Post
Cyclists vs. Bikini Barista Owners in PDXI[/URL] had to ask the question, "What is a Bikini Barista"?
I saw Bikini Coffee Kiosks up in Seattle about 15 years ago.

I didn't realize that they had made it down to Portland, although I'm not surprised.

It isn't good for a small business owner to be brawling just outside their own shop.

Unfortunately these cyclist/driver brawls generally involve two hotheads. Either a driver trying to educate a cyclist, or a cyclist trying to educate a driver. And the other one responding in kind.
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Old 11-12-19, 04:27 AM
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Originally Posted by bpcyclist View Post
…That said, to answer your question directly, the post is extremely relevant to any cyclist who operates in an urban environment where bicyclists and motor vehicles must interact on a regular basis

So, anyway, cycling safety and advocacy issue number one in the link I posted is the potential life-threatening danger posed to cyclists by motorist who become angry with them, for whatever reason, and who also possess a weapon…

The second cycling and advocacy issue here is that these issues between motorists and cyclists happen everywhere. …

The third safety and advocacy issue here is that these conflicts are by their very nature unpredictable and volatile once they start.
Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
...Unfortunately these cyclist/driver brawls generally involve two hotheads. Either a driver trying to educate a cyclist, or a cyclist trying to educate a driver. And the other one responding in kind.
I have posted frequently,
Originally Posted by Jim from Boston View Post
"How Do You Deal With Harassment?":

Threads about harassment are indeed recurrent, and FWIW I have previously posted:
Originally Posted by Jim from Boston View Post
"Do you ever confront bad drivers?"

How to get the message out? I find threads about what to say to a driver futile, since these are brief, often emotion laden encounters, and often the cyclist makes a bad impression...

Last edited by Jim from Boston; 11-12-19 at 04:34 AM.
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Old 11-12-19, 09:09 AM
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Sounds like dude needs to cut down on his caffeine intake.
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Old 11-12-19, 09:17 AM
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This seems pretty straightforward, really. Dude that runs a bikini coffee shop yells at cyclist for not signaling his intention to turn, because you know, cars always signal their intentions. Other cyclist takes offense, so coffee dude gets out of his car with a hammer, later slaps phone out of hand of woman filming him.

This isn't about cyclists or even road rage. Dude is a full-blown moron and should at the very least spend a weekend in lockup. But that is woefully unlikely. I mean, if he even has to pay a fine it will be a miracle (cyclists don't legally appear to be human) so here we are.
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Old 11-12-19, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by DrIsotope View Post
This seems pretty straightforward, really. Dude that runs a bikini coffee shop yells at cyclist for not signaling his intention to turn, because you know, cars always signal their intentions. Other cyclist takes offense, so coffee dude gets out of his car with a hammer, later slaps phone out of hand of woman filming him.

This isn't about cyclists or even road rage. Dude is a full-blown moron and should at the very least spend a weekend in lockup. But that is woefully unlikely. I mean, if he even has to pay a fine it will be a miracle (cyclists don't legally appear to be human) so here we are.
Odds are pretty good that the phone slapping produced a pretty nasty-looking video, so I would guess it's pretty likely he'll get a misdemeanor assault conviction, fine or jail depending on his priors.

If there's video of him approaching the cyclist with a hammer, he's in a lot of trouble.
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Old 11-21-19, 05:54 AM
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Originally Posted by DrIsotope View Post
...Dude that runs a bikini coffee shop yells at cyclist for not signaling his intention to turn, because you know, cars always signal their intentions. ...
Hmmn, from the linked article:
a cyclist cut in front of them from the bike lane without signaling first. Elston said he yelled out the window at the cyclist.
“I yelled, ‘you’re not a (expletive) car,’”


So it sounds like being cut off by a car would have been situation normal for the coffee guy
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Old 11-21-19, 09:17 AM
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The guy was sitting in his car, not driving. So, what difference would getting cut off really make?

When I was in Portland 20 years ago, I found it very annoying that few cars in Portland would signal.

I think it is better now, but still, one can't count on it.

I suppose I've gotten lazy. I'll signal if it actually makes a difference for traffic flow, or my safety. But, don't bother if it doesn't seem to have much impact.
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Old 11-21-19, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
The guy was sitting in his car, not driving. So, what difference would getting cut off really make?

When I was in Portland 20 years ago, I found it very annoying that few cars in Portland would signal.

I think it is better now, but still, one can't count on it.

I suppose I've gotten lazy. I'll signal if it actually makes a difference for traffic flow, or my safety. But, don't bother if it doesn't seem to have much impact.
I don't know, I don't have all the details or a link, but I'm pretty sure Portland was just found to have the worst drivers in the nation for a medium- or large-sized city. No idea why this would be, as PDX is a city dominated by people who are not from Oregon. Almost everyone has moved from somewhere else, mostly SoCal and NoCal.
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Old 11-24-19, 10:34 AM
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I blame this entire incident and others like it on watching too many episodes for too long of The Simpsons. Either that or compromised municipal water supplies.
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Old 11-24-19, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by berner View Post
I blame this entire incident and others like it on watching too many episodes for too long of The Simpsons. Either that or compromised municipal water supplies.
Portlandia?
Grimm?
Stumptown (apparently a fake Portland show)?

Last edited by CliffordK; 11-24-19 at 10:41 AM.
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Old 11-24-19, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by jamesdelap View Post
Hmmn, from the linked article:
a cyclist cut in front of them from the bike lane without signaling first. Elston said he yelled out the window at the cyclist.
“I yelled, ‘you’re not a (expletive) car,’”


So it sounds like being cut off by a car would have been situation normal for the coffee guy
I tell you what it sounds like. It sounds like this knucklehead does not know the laws concerning cycling and public roads (also lying about being cut off), and he was pissed off that he was being “held up” by a bicycle who he believed had no business being on that road. He then proceeds to yell at said cyclist thinking he is performing a public service announcement. When said cyclist ignores the knucklehead or tells him what he can do with his opinion, the knucklehead then stops his vehicle and assaults the cyclists. That’s what it sounds like to me.

Agree this knucklehead should be charged.

Last edited by jadocs; 11-24-19 at 11:31 AM.
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Old 12-09-19, 09:41 AM
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We've been through this with burger joint drive thrus.

Coffee sucks anyway, that is why God invented Mountain Dew. And AM/PM.
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Old 12-09-19, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Rollfast View Post
We've been through this with burger joint drive thrus.

Coffee sucks anyway, that is why God invented Mountain Dew. And AM/PM.
I have never been refused service at a coffee kiosk. Although on occasion they'll direct me to a pedestrian window that previously appeared closed (sometimes taking the order, then letting me walk over to the window to pay and pick up).

Some difference, other than some of the big stores like Starbucks, most of the kiosks don't have both indoor and drive-up service.

I do like a good coffee every once in a while (generally decaf now), but for the most part have stepped away from the caffeinated world.
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Old 12-11-19, 06:55 PM
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This thread ain’t no good without pics
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Old 12-11-19, 08:52 PM
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Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
I have never been refused service at a coffee kiosk. Although on occasion they'll direct me to a pedestrian window that previously appeared closed (sometimes taking the order, then letting me walk over to the window to pay and pick up).

Some difference, other than some of the big stores like Starbucks, most of the kiosks don't have both indoor and drive-up service.

I do like a good coffee every once in a while (generally decaf now), but for the most part have stepped away from the caffeinated world.
Where I am none of the fast food places such as McDonald's, Tim Horton's, or Wendy's will serve a bicyclist at their drive-thru. Even when the dine-in part of the store is closed they still will not serve you at the drive through. I've heard it's because of insurance concerns about accidents.

Cheers
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Old 12-11-19, 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Miele Man View Post
Where I am none of the fast food places such as McDonald's, Tim Horton's, or Wendy's will serve a bicyclist at their drive-thru. Even when the dine-in part of the store is closed they still will not serve you at the drive through. I've heard it's because of insurance concerns about accidents.

Cheers
You'd expect to read stories about under-caffeinated drivers rushing to coffee kiosks and smashing everything in their path. But, that just isn't happening.

If the drive-throughs were so dangerous, they should be closed for all users, or perhaps closed for the drivers, and left open fot the cyclists that aren't killing people in the food lines.
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Old 12-11-19, 09:28 PM
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Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
You'd expect to read stories about under-caffeinated drivers rushing to coffee kiosks and smashing everything in their path. But, that just isn't happening.

If the drive-throughs were so dangerous, they should be closed for all users, or perhaps closed for the drivers, and left open fot the cyclists that aren't killing people in the food lines.
I don't think a drive-thru is dangerous for a bicyclist especially in the wee hours of the morning when there is no customer vehicle anywhere on the property let alone in the drive-thru area. I'd like to see their insurance policy though. I was out riding one morning about 0299 hrs (2AM) and went to five different McDonald's and Tim Horton's and not one of them would serve me in the drive-thru. Yet none of them was ope for inside use.

Cheers
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Old 12-11-19, 09:42 PM
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It has to do with drive-thru robberies and getaways as well. You don't have a license plate to read and they don't know a Fuji from a Huffy (although all those SUVs tend to look the same to me).
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Old 12-11-19, 09:51 PM
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They just gotta have a drive-thru McDonalds for bikes in Copenhagen...
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Old 12-12-19, 03:36 AM
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Portland passed a law requiring restaurants to serve cyclists and pedestrians at drive-through windows during after hour service.

https://bikeportland.org/2018/05/29/...e-users-282407

Some businesses are apparently choosing to not differentiate service based on lobby hours.
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