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Cyclist killed on transverse through Central Park

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Cyclist killed on transverse through Central Park

Old 12-18-19, 07:26 PM
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vol
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Cyclist killed on transverse through Central Park

The cyclist, a doctor, skipped on ice, fell, and was hit by a school bus this morning. He was riding on the transverse on the 97th st. through Central Park in Manhattan.
https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...qbu-story.html
A doctor riding his bike through Central Park wiped out on ice and was fatally struck by a school bus full of kids Wednesday morning, police said.Dr. Daniel Cammerman, a 50-year-old pediatrician affiliated with Mount Sinai, was rushed to Mount Sinai Hospital but could not be saved.

Last edited by vol; 12-18-19 at 10:49 PM.
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Old 12-18-19, 07:51 PM
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29.

Who is going to blame....

-mr. bill
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Old 12-18-19, 09:33 PM
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Just heartbreaking. I used to run that stretch of road when I was at Columbia many moons ago, but we always did it at night after traffic was calmed down a bit. In those days, it could get super-busy at times and, with possible surface road condition risks due to weather, it sounds like I, personally, would probably have elected to walk that day. Not judging the poor man, please understand. Far from it. This can happen to any of us.

A few years ago, I left one apartment in an area called the Pearl District, which is basically, downtown Portland, at around 930 pm. I headed east about 8 miles. It was not raining or snowing. The temperature when I departed the Pearl was 35F Was not especially windy. I took my usual route through the city to another place I had in the southeast part of town. I got about 2/3 of the way there. Still not snowing or raining, though the pavement here was now damp-appearing. Must've rained over there at some point. I came into a 90-degree left-hand turn, gently braked, leaned just a bit into it, and went straight to the pavement like a freaking hockey puck--skating and sliding, still clipped in, across a rink of invisible black ice. Totally helpless. I was shocked. It looked no different from the merely slightly damp pavement I had been just riding. Except this was ice. Due to act of God, there was no semi or bus or giant SUV coming at me. Had there been, I would have likely slid right under and been killed or severely hurt. As it was, I walked away from it.

The lesson that night was weather. My town has these sort of microclimates and, as one goes east, generally speaking in the winter, it gets colder. Sometimes several degrees colder. 35F downtown can easily be 32F on the east side in places. I feel quite certain this is why there was ice out where I fell and none downtown. I say all of this to simply state that I do worry reading some posts here that folks do not always seem to fully respect the potential sneakiness and lethality of ice in its varied forms. So, please, check the weather/radar/satellite images before you head out. It only takes about three minute to do. I am a weather freak! For me, if it looks like ice is a possibility, I do not ride. It just isn't worth it to me. I just wish this poor doctor had had a chance to hang his bike up and maybe drive instead.
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Old 12-18-19, 10:47 PM
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I used to bike commute on roads full of vehicles in the evening even in the days after snow when there was rock-hard ice on roadside and tell people with pride. I thought the ice covered with dusts were not so dangerous. Was lucky not to have had an accident.
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Old 12-19-19, 06:43 AM
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How close was the bus to the cyclist? That's what I'd like to know. If the bus driver had given the cyclist room I don't see how he could have been run over.
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Old 12-19-19, 06:44 AM
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Drivers killing cyclists. Seems to be the theme these days.
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Old 12-19-19, 08:12 AM
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Thursday’s Headlines: Death in Central Park Edition

Originally Posted by streetsblog
And in his memory, we will not jump to the conclusion [emphasis mine] — that the city’s tabloids naturally did — to exonerate the driver in yesterday’s fatal crash by reporting without evidence that Cammerman hit ice on the 96th Street transverse in Central Park, causing his own death (NYDN, NY Post).
-mr. bill

Last edited by mr_bill; 12-19-19 at 08:16 AM.
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Old 12-19-19, 09:03 AM
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Unfortunately the victim isn't alive to tell his side of the story. The only version we have is that of the driver's, that he wasn't driving too fast, too class, or too distracted. How many more than 29 will it take?
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Old 12-19-19, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by mcours2006 View Post
How close was the bus to the cyclist? That's what I'd like to know. If the bus driver had given the cyclist room I don't see how he could have been run over.
Much as this sucks, I wouldn't go that far. In NYC especially, bikes are often travelling faster than the motorized vehicles around them. There's at least an even chance that the cyclist was overtaking the bus, and not the other way around.

Sad incident, but not everything is avoidable.
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Old 12-19-19, 09:54 AM
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Are we really going to debate the proposition that we shouldn't assume we know what happened when we don't know what happened?
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Old 12-19-19, 10:02 AM
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Let's shall.
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Old 12-19-19, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by mcours2006 View Post
Unfortunately the victim isn't alive to tell his side of the story. The only version we have is that of the driver's, that he wasn't driving too fast, too class, or too distracted. How many more than 29 will it take?
Uh, no. The only version WE HAVE is "police said," "police sources said," "authorities said," " according to cops," and "cops and police sources." We have NO IDEA what the driver said.

Reminding everyone on NYPD's track record on accurately reporting bicycle crashes, not accidents, the now infamous "swerve."


Originally Posted by vol View Post
Citi Biker dies after hit by bus in ride share?s first fatality - NY Daily News

Dan Hanegby, 36, ...... and the bus collided as Hanegby rode between it and a parked car on W. 26th St. between Seventh and Eighth Aves.

He fell and was run over by the rear wheels of the bus, cops said. The 52-year-old bus driver remained at the scene.


So sad.

More info from https://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/201...t-bus-hit-nypd

The operator of the bus and Hanegby both swerved at the same time to avoid hitting something, causing them to strike each other, according to a police source.


I wonder if it's a pothole. Also, currently there are many streets in Manhattan that are in the middle of being repaved.
-mr. bill
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Old 12-19-19, 11:54 AM
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Some pictures of that transverse (it's from 2007 but should be about the same today):
97th Street Transverse Road Bridge (BIN 2246270)
97th Street Transverse Road Bridge (BIN 2246280)
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Old 12-19-19, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by mr_bill View Post
Uh, no. The only version WE HAVE is "police said," "police sources said," "authorities said," " according to cops," and "cops and police sources." We have NO IDEA what the driver said.
-mr. bill
True enough, but since the police were not present at the time of the collision, and 14 children on board likely were not paying attention and so did not witness the crash, the only likely 'source' would be the driver. So, we do have some idea what the driver said.
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Old 12-19-19, 12:23 PM
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The bus was trying to pass the cyclist according to one story I saw. Dude hit a patch of ice, "fell" and was struck by the bus' left, front tire.

https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/...qbu-story.html
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Old 12-19-19, 12:34 PM
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"The bus was trying to pass by Cammerman when his bike hit a patch of ice and he fell in front of the bus and was struck by the driver’s side front tire, police sources said."

Bus driver was making a pass on the right side of cyclist, presumably. And who are the police sources? Eye witnesses? Why not just say eye witnesses, unless it wasn't. Unless it was the driver.
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Old 12-19-19, 01:02 PM
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Tabloidish:
  • Police spokesperson - a person authorized to speak to the media who spoke on the record. May or may not be specifically identified.
  • Police sources - a person or persons who are (usually) authorized to speak to the media who spoke off the record.
  • Authority - a person or persons who are (usually) authorized to speak to the media who spoke off the record.
  • Cops or Police - a person or persons not authorized to speak to the media who spoke off the record. Often “interviewed” on-site, such as at the Nakatomi Plaza where something is going on.
  • Sources - reporters working for our competition wrote or said.
  • People are saying - mythical beings mumbled.

FWIW, NY Post reports that "authorities said" that the doctor was travelling east, fell and collided with the oncoming school bus heading west.

ABC reports that "authorities said" the doctor hit a curb and fell into the road.

-mr. bill

Last edited by mr_bill; 12-19-19 at 04:23 PM.
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Old 12-19-19, 01:52 PM
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It's BF amateur junior inquest time!

Expect lots of heat and zero light.
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Old 12-19-19, 02:13 PM
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gosh, the Pediatrician "was the 29th cyclist who has died while riding on New York City’s streets in 2019, and the 28th who has been killed by a motor vehicle. That’s nearly triple the 10 cyclists who died while riding in the city in all of 2018"
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Old 12-19-19, 02:38 PM
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As a winter rider, you have to know there are some things that cannot happen if you want to survive. Falling into the path of trucks is one of those things. For me, that drove tire choices, drive train choices.ans sometimes wait, walk or ride choices. I did my first several winters of riding in and around Boston. To think you can go it without trucks passing is dreaming.

(I rode many winters on fix gears in large part for the better control of the bike and better recovery when the rear tire started to slip. Also rode higher gears for better control. And yes, it was hard.)

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Old 12-19-19, 02:52 PM
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In Portland, motorists are supposed to give pedestrians a 50' buffer, no matter what. It used to be enforced. Lots of drivers got tickets when they bore down on decoy pedestrians instead of giving them that buffer zone. Cyclists should, IMO, get the same consideration. Some drivers do it without needing a law about it but most will run right up on your six as you try to make a left turn. Just this morning I had to bail on my turn into a driveway and turn left at the corner and backtrack. I had my wife signalling left but the car behind just kept coming. He got so close I could not risk it, its pretty wet today, and decided to gun it for some separation and made the turn past where I had intended to turn. Other times they do what that bus driver might have done and decide to go around to the right. That's great if it all goes as planned. New York City has been steadily losing population. The number of cyclists has increased somewhat but it has NOT tripled. There should not be triple the number of fatal accidents involving cyclists. Something societal is going on.
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Old 12-20-19, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by mcours2006 View Post
"The bus was trying to pass by Cammerman when his bike hit a patch of ice and he fell in front of the bus and was struck by the driverís side front tire, police sources said."

Bus driver was making a pass on the right side of cyclist, presumably.
According to the story, they were both travelling in the same direction. If that is correct, he could not have passed on the right unless the cyclist was in the middle of the road. Doesn't seem likely. Sounds more like the guy did more than fall. Sounds like he somehow crossed in front of the bus' path.
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Old 12-20-19, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by indyfabz View Post
According to the story, they were both travelling in the same direction. If that is correct, he could not have passed on the right unless the cyclist was in the middle of the road. Doesn't seem likely. Sounds more like the guy did more than fall. Sounds like he somehow crossed in front of the bus' path.
I'm trying to imagine how cyclist could have ended up on the driver's side of the bus. Even slipping on an ice patch, your forward momentum would take you straight ahead, not across the path of the bus. It's a mystery that only the bus driver knows the answer.
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Old 12-20-19, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by mcours2006 View Post
I'm trying to imagine how cyclist could have ended up on the driver's side of the bus. Even slipping on an ice patch, your forward momentum would take you straight ahead, not across the path of the bus. It's a mystery that only the bus driver knows the answer.
I was riding the bike lane a few Portland winters ago on ice when I made a small variation in course, put my front tire on the painted stripe, started losing it and ended up down in the car lane. Quiet Saturday morning. There was a car behind me, well back and it was not an issue at all. Bike lane stripes - the curse in wet of icy weather. Had I a truck close behind me I would have had to make choices other than trying to stay upright. Probably would have broken a bone on a much harder crash.

I wonder if the rider did something like I did and the driver did his best to alter course to the right to miss him?

Ben
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Old 12-20-19, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney View Post
I was riding the bike lane a few Portland winters ago on ice when I made a small variation in course, put my front tire on the painted stripe, started losing it and ended up down in the car lane. Quiet Saturday morning. There was a car behind me, well back and it was not an issue at all. Bike lane stripes - the curse in wet of icy weather. Had I a truck close behind me I would have had to make choices other than trying to stay upright. Probably would have broken a bone on a much harder crash.

I wonder if the rider did something like I did and the driver did his best to alter course to the right to miss him?

Ben
That's one scenario that I could see happening with the cyclist. Good catch.
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