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hand signals...

Old 08-17-20, 12:21 AM
  #1  
gios
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hand signals...

Actually made a right hand turn signal the other morning and I was thinking, what are the chances that that four wheeler behind me that I spotted in my take-a-look understood it? lol. Two to one against? Worst?
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Old 08-17-20, 05:44 AM
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Understanding a left turn signal is more important since it indicates you are moving left in front of him.

A right turn signal means you are turning right out of his way (unless, he’s making a right turn too).

Not understanding a right turn signal leaves him expecting you’ll be where you are.
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Old 08-17-20, 06:25 AM
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Originally Posted by gios View Post
Actually made a right hand turn signal the other morning and I was thinking, what are the chances that that four wheeler behind me that I spotted in my take-a-look understood it? lol. Two to one against? Worst?
To understand your hand signal, the driver must first be paying attention. (lol)

I remember a discussion here a few years ago about signaling right hand turns with a crooked left arm vs. a straight right arm pointing in the direction of the turn. My left arm goes up out of habit, but I think pointing in the direction of the turn may work better these days.

I used to follow the mantra "ride like you are invisible", but a motorcycle friend said he rides like he is visible and everyone is trying to kill him. That is what I do now.

Anyway, points for biking with a mirror, and using my favorite...the take-a-look.
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Old 08-17-20, 08:19 AM
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So what? Do you think every cyclist behind you noticed?
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Old 08-17-20, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by BobbyG View Post
To understand your hand signal, the driver must first be paying attention. (lol)

I remember a discussion here a few years ago about signaling right hand turns with a crooked left arm vs. a straight right arm pointing in the direction of the turn. My left arm goes up out of habit, but I think pointing in the direction of the turn may work better these days.

I used to follow the mantra "ride like you are invisible", but a motorcycle friend said he rides like he is visible and everyone is trying to kill him. That is what I do now.

Anyway, points for biking with a mirror, and using my favorite...the take-a-look.
The three times I've been through the MSF (Motorcycle Safety Foundation) course has definitely made me a better rider / driver - two and four wheels.
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Old 08-17-20, 09:47 AM
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One point mentioned here is that who ever is behind you has to be paying attention.

Then forget the car centric hand signals. If turning left turn put your left arm out straight, and for a right turn put your right arm out straight. People will understand if watching.
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Old 08-17-20, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by rydabent View Post
One point mentioned here is that who ever is behind you has to be paying attention.

Then forget the car centric hand signals. If turning left turn put your left arm out straight, and for a right turn put your right arm out straight. People will understand if watching.

That's really a good point--if, as a driver, I'm in a position where I can't see a right arm signal, I really don't care if you turn right, it's just going to take you further out of my path.
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Old 08-17-20, 12:05 PM
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When is the last time you saw a driver use the old hand signals to announce a turn? Probably not since they invented turn signals and AC. They may be mentioned in the DMV rule book but I doubt if the average driver today even knows what they mean or has ever used them.

The arm pointing straight to the right or left clearly indicates the intention of the cyclist and (hopefully) would be easily understood by the driver.
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Old 08-17-20, 12:39 PM
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I find signaling with the right arm out straight to be more intuitive to drivers, and believe it has been codified into law in most states.

Also, signaling right doesn't always mean "moving out of the path of traffic". There are situations where I am signaling to merge right into another lane, where there may be traffic approaching from behind.
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Old 08-17-20, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by AlmostTrick View Post
I find signaling with the right arm out straight to be more intuitive to drivers, and believe it has been codified into law in most states.

Also, signaling right doesn't always mean moving out of the way of traffic. There are situations where I am signaling to merge right into another lane, where there may be traffic approaching from behind.
Yes, my point was in that situation, the driver you're signalling likely has a clear view of your right arm. The left-handed right-turn signal was premised on an assumption that your right arm wasn't visible to the driver. In a car, the reason for that is obvious, the right arm is inside the car. On a bike, the reason was being over to the right hides your right arm from cars in the lane. If you're signaling a lane shift to the right, obviously you're not on the right edge of the road.

If I'm all the way to the right of the road, I don't bother signalling right turns at all.

Does anyone actually use the stop signal? I didn't even realize there was one until recently.
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Old 08-17-20, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by AlmostTrick View Post
I find signaling with the right arm out straight to be more intuitive to drivers, and believe it has been codified into law in most states.

Also, signaling right doesn't always mean "moving out of the path of traffic". There are situations where I am signaling to merge right into another lane, where there may be traffic approaching from behind.
The crooked left arm was used because no one had a right arm long enough to reach from the driver's seat to the and through the passenger window. LOL

Now, bicyclists are allowed in many areas to use their right arm straight out to the right side to indicate a right turn.

I too wonder just how many drivers no what hand signals mean.

Cheers
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Old 08-17-20, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Miele Man View Post
The crooked left arm was used because no one had a right arm long enough to reach from the driver's seat to the and through the passenger window. LOL

Now, bicyclists are allowed in many areas to use their right arm straight out to the right side to indicate a right turn.

I too wonder just how many drivers no what hand signals mean.

Cheers

Hey, that left-handed guy is swearing to tell the truth!
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Old 08-17-20, 01:00 PM
  #13  
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I stick my arm out & following car lets me turn to the left in a drive right country

Two to one against? Worst?
You want a Las Vegas bookie to give you the odds. got money down ., on the outcome"?
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Old 08-17-20, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post

If I'm all the way to the right of the road, I don't bother signalling right turns at all.
Often that makes sense. If there is someone waiting to pull out and my signaling would allow them to safely do so, I will do it as a courtesy. Otherwise they have to wait, only to say "Nice signal AH!" once they see me turn. I try to be a courteous cyclist.

If I'm using the full lane and a driver is behind me I believe it's not only courteous to signal, but it makes it less likely they'll attempt a risky pass when they realize they only have to hold their pants on for another few seconds.

Does anyone actually use the stop signal? I didn't even realize there was one until recently.
I do at times, sometimes just to let them know I'm stopping, other times when I want them to slow or stop.
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Old 08-17-20, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by AlmostTrick View Post
Often that makes sense. If there is someone waiting to pull out and my signaling would allow them to safely do so, I will do it as a courtesy. Otherwise they have to wait, only to say "Nice signal AH!" once they see me turn. I try to be a courteous cyclist.

If I'm using the full lane and a driver is behind me I believe it's not only courteous to signal, but it makes it less likely they'll attempt a risky pass when they realize they only have to hold their pants on for another few seconds.
.
I'm sure I must have encountered some scenario where I was taking the full lane to take a right hand turn, but damned if I can think of one now. Also not sure if I've ever been in a situation where someone was waiting to pull out right where I was taking a right hand turn. That'd have to be a very weird road layout.
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Old 08-17-20, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
I'm sure I must have encountered some scenario where I was taking the full lane to take a right hand turn, but damned if I can think of one now.
Anywhere the lane wasn't wide enough to safely share and there is traffic in the other lane.


Also not sure if I've ever been in a situation where someone was waiting to pull out right where I was taking a right hand turn. That'd have to be a very weird road layout.
Seriously, this can happen at every intersection and drive. If you're going straight across their path, they have to wait. (or run you over) If you signal a right, they now know you will NOT be crossing their path and can go. Safety and courtesy!
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Old 08-17-20, 02:11 PM
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I use the stop signal when approaching a 4way as it usually prevents an earlier x-traffic driver from waiting to be sure I am stopping and gets everyone through faster. I'll use my right arm/hand for the stop signal if the x-driver is at my right so they see it better. Since I started doing this ~10yr ago it has made 4ways much smoother.
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Old 08-17-20, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by AlmostTrick View Post
Anywhere the lane wasn't wide enough to safely share and there is traffic in the other lane.




Seriously, this can happen at every intersection and drive. If you're going straight across their path, they have to wait. (or run you over) If you signal a right, they now know you will NOT be crossing their path and can go. Safety and courtesy!
Translation error--"pull out" is not something people do at intersections. And are you describing a driveway that outlets at an intersection? Weird.

Still don't buy it. It's a lot easier to do an efficient turn with both hands on the bars, so by the time they would have seen my signal I can just turn. Safe, courteous and efficient. Signalling is just going to slow down the turn for no good end.

And, as to the first scenario, I'm pretty sure I've moved from the center of that lane to the right before I got to the corner, I can imagine a lane so narrow that I couldn't do this, but I don't think I've encountered one in the wild. Maybe a badly placed crack in the pavement.

Last edited by livedarklions; 08-17-20 at 02:28 PM.
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Old 08-17-20, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by noisebeam View Post
I use the stop signal when approaching a 4way as it usually prevents an earlier x-traffic driver from waiting to be sure I am stopping and gets everyone through faster. I'll use my right arm/hand for the stop signal if the x-driver is at my right so they see it better. Since I started doing this ~10yr ago it has made 4ways much smoother.
I've become very adept at hopping off the saddle and putting my feet down at such intersections. Serves the same purpose, no ambiguity.

I'm pretty sure your method wouldn't work around here, but it sounds like it does where you ride.
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Old 08-17-20, 02:34 PM
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Beyond indicating which way you are turning, a hand signal may also indicate that you are about to start slowing. If you are taking a left and must wait for oncoming traffic, a left turn signal may also mean you are going to slow then stop. When I am driving and my turn will involve slowing, I always give my signal a few seconds before I brake. Just a little advanced notice if you will.
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Old 08-17-20, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
I've become very adept at hopping off the saddle and putting my feet down at such intersections. Serves the same purpose, no ambiguity.

I'm pretty sure your method wouldn't work around here, but it sounds like it does where you ride.
If I am in a situation where I must stop because another vehicle arrived before me I put foot down. But if one other vehicle is already stopped and should be ready to go I signal my stop so they go instead of waiting for me to put foot down. Then I can briefly pause and go.

Not sure what unique situations you have where you live but this works equally well in AZ, CA TX, VT and MA in my experience - especially if I am in left side of lane where you are most visible to others. It basically lets other drivers know you intend to follow the law and not assume you will blow through like some other cyclists tend to do.
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Old 08-17-20, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by noisebeam View Post
If I am in a situation where I must stop because another vehicle arrived before me I put foot down. But if one other vehicle is already stopped and should be ready to go I signal my stop so they go instead of waiting for me to put foot down. Then I can briefly pause and go.

Not sure what unique situations you have where you live but this works equally well in AZ, CA TX, VT and MA in my experience - especially if I am in left side of lane where you are most visible to others. It basically lets other drivers know you intend to follow the law and not assume you will blow through like some other cyclists tend to do.

I'm in NH. I've ridden many, many miles in a lot of places (MN, CA, MA, NOLA), but the drivers here are complete knuckleheads who can't figure out the easiest signals. Like I've said, I'm really fast at putting my feet down, so it takes me about the same amount of time as it would to stick my arm out and bend it down.

FWIW, I just had a driver here speed up to try to force me back out of a lane I had just merged into to take a left-hand turn. He was a half block back when I signalled the lane change, which apparently he took as a challenge. Even for NH, that was amazingly aggressive.
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Old 08-17-20, 04:33 PM
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Oh, you are blaming it on assuming what others will do without even trying - sorry you may too stubborn to even try.

Anyway this is a hand signal that gives cautious drivers confidence to proceed while I am still moving toward the intersection and those are the types that are most responsive to communication.. An aggressive driver wouldn't even be waiting for a cyclist to slow let alone signal. I also wouldn't want to unclip and put a foot down while still moving.

It is also useful to let the drivers behind me know I am slowing and preparing to stop for the 4 way stop.

(Yeah I've cycled into NH from VT a few time, but not far to Keene and the area. Didn't notice any difference in responsiveness to my signals.)
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Old 08-17-20, 04:53 PM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by MNebiker View Post
When is the last time you saw a driver use the old hand signals to announce a turn? Probably not since they invented turn signals and AC. They may be mentioned in the DMV rule book but I doubt if the average driver today even knows what they mean or has ever used them.

The arm pointing straight to the right or left clearly indicates the intention of the cyclist and (hopefully) would be easily understood by the driver.
A couple of years ago, I was behind one of those huge early 60s cars. I though the guy was just hanging his arm out, until he turned right.

The thing I don't like about using my right hand to signal a turn is because it leaves me with only a front brake, which is not where I want to be if I need to come to a sudden stop. I just do it with my left hand very demonstratively. Arm goes out, hand goes up in a crisp motion. But left-signaling is more important, obviously.
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Old 08-17-20, 05:26 PM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by noisebeam View Post
I use the stop signal when approaching a 4way as it usually prevents an earlier x-traffic driver from waiting to be sure I am stopping and gets everyone through faster. I'll use my right arm/hand for the stop signal if the x-driver is at my right so they see it better. Since I started doing this ~10yr ago it has made 4ways much smoother.
Good point, I can see how this would work well, I need to use it more often.

Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
Translation error--"pull out" is not something people do at intersections. And are you describing a driveway that outlets at an intersection? Weird.
Yes, driver at almost any driveway or intersection wants to pull out onto a road I'm on. If I make it clear by signaling that I'm turning, they can proceed. If I don't, they'll need to wait to see what I'm going to do.
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