Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Advocacy & Safety
Reload this Page >

Will they ever learn?

Notices
Advocacy & Safety Cyclists should expect and demand safe accommodation on every public road, just as do all other users. Discuss your bicycle advocacy and safety concerns here.

Will they ever learn?

Old 08-26-20, 07:07 PM
  #1  
closetbiker
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
closetbiker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 9,630
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Liked 18 Times in 6 Posts
Will they ever learn?

Iím talking about the general population.

In (over) 35 years of advocacy in cycling, at times it seems little has changed.

Sure, there have been some gains in recognition of local governments in the importance of and investment in, infrastructure but amongst the majority view of the people of the city, not much has changed.

I still get cut off and buzzed as I always have and if someone knows I ride a bike, they have to unload with their complaints.

Geez Louise, even when I showed someone complaining to me how cyclists donít pay for the roads, a statement from the responsible city manager managing the costs of the bike lanes saying that itís property taxes that pay for the roads, he still didnít believe me!

Will they, or can they, ever learn that people riding bikes is a good thing for everyone?
closetbiker is offline  
Likes For closetbiker:
Old 08-26-20, 07:46 PM
  #2  
greatscott
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Indiana
Posts: 540

Bikes: 1984 Fuji Club, Suntour ARX; 2013 Lynskey Peloton, mostly 105 with Ultegra rear derailleur, Enve 2.0 fork; 2020 Masi Giramondo 700c, full Deore with TRP dual piston mech disk brakes

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 288 Post(s)
Liked 60 Times in 54 Posts
SNORE. Look man, unless you live in the warm belt, which most of America is in the old belt, bike paths and lanes are a waste of taxpayers money because less than 2% of the old belt states population uses the freaking stuff! And lanes and paths cost a lot of money, between $500,000 to over $4 million dollars for EACH MILE!!!
https://www.pedbikeinfo.org/cms/downl...erials%20used.

In addition, bike lanes are more dangerous than just taking the lane and riding, why you scream? because ars want to use it to park in and to make turns with that's why, and I've seen cyclists get hit using those lanes, and I've almost been hit in them, so I no longer use the lanes, I take the street lane!
https://www.koaa.com/news/covering-c...e-lanes-at-all

I use to ride all over Los Angeles in the days before lanes came around and I never had an accident, I prefer no lanes for safety and for saving millions in taxpayers money. However, in warmer areas where the bike ridership maybe as high as 14% then paths and lanes, if done correctly, may be the better idea, but even california is having severe money issues, and paths and lanes there are the most expensive in the USA due to the cost of obtaining land rights, they can ill afford more biking infrastructure.

Oh boy, let the war begin.
greatscott is offline  
Old 08-26-20, 08:26 PM
  #3  
closetbiker
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
closetbiker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 9,630
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Liked 18 Times in 6 Posts
Originally Posted by greatscott View Post
SNORE. Look man....

Oh boy, let the war begin.
lol. Off topic man... the question is, will/can the gen pop learn that people riding bikes are good for them?
closetbiker is offline  
Likes For closetbiker:
Old 08-26-20, 08:45 PM
  #4  
holytrousers
Senior Member
 
holytrousers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Tunisia
Posts: 184
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 200 Post(s)
Liked 77 Times in 55 Posts
Originally Posted by closetbiker View Post
lol. Off topic man... the question is, will/can the gen pop learn that people riding bikes are good for them?
I think they know that very well, but they are not willing to fully acknowledge their own faultiness and start riding bikes themselves !
holytrousers is offline  
Likes For holytrousers:
Old 08-26-20, 09:29 PM
  #5  
Clyde1820
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 1,290
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 347 Post(s)
Liked 209 Times in 158 Posts
Originally Posted by closetbiker View Post
Will they ever learn?
I’m talking about the general population.
Will they, or can they, ever learn that people riding bikes is a good thing for everyone?
Probably not, as "a population," no. (Not in the U.S., at any rate.)

The benefits are too distant from the capital outlay for many to see any point. And, altogether too many folks don't (or can't) do cycling.

Let alone the fact that many, many places in a given state or country are likely to be built around automobiles (cars, buses). And so, getting around by bike can literally be a pain for many, even if suitable paths (or even lanes) were there.

Would love to see all future new-road infrastructure be required to have exceptionally well-designed bike lanes as part of any new or rebuild construction. But the cost, alone, could ditch any such thing from happening in anywhere but the wealthiest communities.

In the U.S., I strongly suspect that such a thing won't occur until much of the tax revenues get taken back by the states, which of course would require stripping the federal gov't down significantly ... which ain't likely to occur in our lifetimes, power and control being what it is.

Would love to see an effective roadway design that could, on a per-mile, basis essentially have design features as bike lanes "pay" for itself. Improved/speedier construction methods, vastly longer-lived materials, etc.

As well, it's tough to do refits in towns where the space for larger roadways simply doesn't exist. It's not like putting in an additional ~12-15ft of width for safe lanes (one lane per side) could occur on many streets, given how tight such streets already are for space.

Not intending to be defeatist, but there are a lot of hurdles in order to effect quality change here. Lots of money required. And a lot of "rice bowls" possibly would get broken if it all goes down this path.
Clyde1820 is offline  
Old 08-27-20, 12:40 AM
  #6  
closetbiker
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
closetbiker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 9,630
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Liked 18 Times in 6 Posts
Originally Posted by Clyde1820 View Post
Probably not, as "a population," no. (Not in the U.S., at any rate.)...

The benefits are too distant from the capital outlay for many to see any point. And, altogether too many folks don't (or can't) do cycling.
thatís certainly not the case here in Vancouver but still, even with this extensive commitment and success initiated by advocates and the city, (https://usa.streetsblog.org/2019/06/...ter-bike-lane/) there still is a large segment of the population that complains about what is good for them
closetbiker is offline  
Likes For closetbiker:
Old 08-27-20, 06:30 AM
  #7  
BobbyG
Senior Member
 
BobbyG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 5,072

Bikes: 2015 Charge Plug, 1997 Nishiki Blazer, 1984 Nishiki International

Mentioned: 53 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1095 Post(s)
Liked 764 Times in 376 Posts
March 8, 2032.
BobbyG is offline  
Likes For BobbyG:
Old 08-27-20, 07:17 AM
  #8  
roundypndr 
Been around the block
 
roundypndr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 54
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 52 Post(s)
Liked 73 Times in 55 Posts
Most of the MUPs in my area are only accessible by on street travel, and even with bicycle on street infrastructure, it still makes for a vigilant and intense ride. With the intensity of situational awareness needed, most of our local residents opt out of using a bicycle as a mode of transportation. Another factor in why our local bicycle transportation numbers are low, most of the direct routes to desirable locations have been taken up by motor vehicle specific infrastructure, leaving the cyclist to make many twists and turns and stops to get to the same location with minimal interaction with motor vehicle travel.
roundypndr is offline  
Likes For roundypndr:
Old 08-27-20, 09:00 AM
  #9  
noimagination
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 309
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 168 Post(s)
Liked 157 Times in 85 Posts
To the extent that people will learn, it will be slowly.

I've been riding in my area (NYC suburban) for >35 years. Drivers are much more aware of cyclists now, and are much more likely to pass safely than they were in the early 90's. There are exceptions, of course, but the exceptions are the same people who drive aggressively period, not just around cyclists. These are just people who are always angry.

Each area is different, of course, but where I ride I'm of the opinion that the factor that has had the greatest influence on drivers is simply the number of cyclists that they see. In the early 90's cyclists were few and far between, people just were not looking for cyclists and had little experience, no training and little idea about how to drive around cyclists. I think that the combination of news reports, personal encounters with cyclists and the sheer number and frequency of encounters with cyclists has exceeded a critical point and most people are aware of how they should drive around cyclists.

Drivers are not perfect, of course, any more than cyclists are, so I still experience close passes and aggression on an occasional basis, but the frequency is probably less than what I experience while driving a car. And a lot less than I experienced 35 years ago.
noimagination is offline  
Likes For noimagination:
Old 08-27-20, 10:05 AM
  #10  
Iride01
Hits [ENTER] b4 thinking
 
Iride01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 4,927

Bikes: '20 Tarmac Disc Comp '91 Schwinn Paramount '78 Raleigh Competition GS

Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1882 Post(s)
Liked 708 Times in 535 Posts
Even in the days of newspapers many people just scanned the titles and read the articles they were interested in. So if they've no interest in cycling or cyclist, why would the read and know about such?

Today with news being fed to individuals based on their interests, likely even much more so that many are simply not aware about the issue you are perplexed about them not knowing.
Iride01 is offline  
Old 08-27-20, 10:31 AM
  #11  
genec
genec
 
genec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Posts: 26,642

Bikes: custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2

Mentioned: 45 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9228 Post(s)
Liked 1,518 Times in 1,038 Posts
Originally Posted by closetbiker View Post
Iím talking about the general population.

In (over) 35 years of advocacy in cycling, at times it seems little has changed.

Sure, there have been some gains in recognition of local governments in the importance of and investment in, infrastructure but amongst the majority view of the people of the city, not much has changed.

I still get cut off and buzzed as I always have and if someone knows I ride a bike, they have to unload with their complaints.

Geez Louise, even when I showed someone complaining to me how cyclists donít pay for the roads, a statement from the responsible city manager managing the costs of the bike lanes saying that itís property taxes that pay for the roads, he still didnít believe me!

Will they, or can they, ever learn that people riding bikes is a good thing for everyone?
No, "THEY" will never learn... new drivers are added to the motorist pool daily; those new drivers all come with different levels of training, different notions of rules/laws, and different mindsets. Few if any new motorists understand their roles and responsibilities with regard to cyclists. Older motorists often have no idea of rule/law changes have have long held poor habits... Cyclists represent a rare, less than 2% of road user situation, so motorists often just ignore any information about cyclists and tend to go with "roads are made for cars," and "more power" mentality.

Sorry, reality bites... until society grasps that "Cyclists Matter," we will constantly be at the bottom of the road use hierarchy. We see ads daily in media about how the motor vehicle is "the ultimate driving machine" etc, but when was the last time a bicycle was shown in media as a way to "save the planet."
genec is offline  
Old 08-27-20, 11:02 AM
  #12  
I-Like-To-Bike
Been Around Awhile
 
I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 28,365

Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked 437 Times in 278 Posts
Originally Posted by closetbiker View Post
I’m talking about the general population.
Will they, or can they, ever learn that people riding bikes is a good thing for everyone?
Originally Posted by genec View Post
Sorry, reality bites... until society grasps that "Cyclists Matter," we will constantly be at the bottom of the road use hierarchy. We see ads daily in media about how the motor vehicle is "the ultimate driving machine" etc, but when was the last time a bicycle was shown in media as a way to "save the planet."
Promoting bicycling as an activity that will "help save the planet" or as a "good thing for everyone" might serve some pleasant function for advocates who already believe that, but is unlikely to "learn" the general public anything that will get them to increase their use of a bicycle. More than likely such a holy roller campaign (even if true) will raise the general public's hackles as self righteous self promotion by hobbyists and be ignored.

IMO, bicycling should be promoted as the good thing it can be for the individual as a fun and/or practical recreational activity that can also be useful (and fun) for getting around town and is can be more convenient and/or economical than driving a motor vehicle or taking public transportation when the conditions are suitable.

OTOH, touting the environmental benefits of reduced air pollution may help sell bicycling infrastructure to officials looking to demonstrate that they are doing "something" about a real problem whether it is effective or not.
I-Like-To-Bike is offline  
Likes For I-Like-To-Bike:
Old 08-27-20, 11:04 AM
  #13  
mr_bill
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 4,255
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1924 Post(s)
Liked 409 Times in 303 Posts
In 35 years, haven't you EVER noticed that the anti-bike ranters at town meeting, city council meeting, community boards, etc have almost always been and continue to be OLDER than you are?

And after 35 years, they are amost all either still older than you or no longer with us.

After 35 years, have you noticed you are no longer one of the few nuts riding a bicycle, and MOST of the people riding bikes around you are YOUNGER than you are? And riding to work, market, school, with a couple of young children on the bike, etc? And often don't look like you? Don't have grey beards? Don't have beards?

Look, if you have burnt out and have lost hope, take a break.

But otherwise, get out there and help the NEW generation of advocates. They need your help.

-mr. bill

Last edited by mr_bill; 08-27-20 at 11:54 AM.
mr_bill is offline  
Likes For mr_bill:
Old 08-27-20, 11:13 AM
  #14  
closetbiker
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
closetbiker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 9,630
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Liked 18 Times in 6 Posts
Originally Posted by mr_bill View Post

...Look, if you have burnt out and have lost hope, take a break.

But otherwise, get out there and help the NEW generation of advocates. They need your help.

-mr. bill
Iíll continue to help out but I just wonít get too worked up about it.

Iíd guess that until riding a bike for transportation is ďunusualĒ those who do will be treated as ďdifferentĒ and less important
closetbiker is offline  
Old 08-27-20, 11:37 AM
  #15  
genec
genec
 
genec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Posts: 26,642

Bikes: custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2

Mentioned: 45 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9228 Post(s)
Liked 1,518 Times in 1,038 Posts
Originally Posted by closetbiker View Post
Iíll continue to help out but I just wonít get too worked up about it.

Iíd guess that until riding a bike for transportation is ďunusualĒ those who do will be treated as ďdifferentĒ and less important
UNTIL?

Cycling for transportation in the US IS considered "unusual," and transportation cyclists are often treated with OMG and "different" tags... and so many people tend to value cars and drivers as "more important..." so much so that an automobile is often considered a sign of particular "social standing."
genec is offline  
Likes For genec:
Old 08-27-20, 12:34 PM
  #16  
genec
genec
 
genec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Posts: 26,642

Bikes: custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2

Mentioned: 45 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9228 Post(s)
Liked 1,518 Times in 1,038 Posts
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
Promoting bicycling as an activity that will "help save the planet" or as a "good thing for everyone" might serve some pleasant function for advocates who already believe that, but is unlikely to "learn" the general public anything that will get them to increase their use of a bicycle. More than likely such a holy roller campaign (even if true) will raise the general public's hackles as self righteous self promotion by hobbyists and be ignored.

IMO, bicycling should be promoted as the good thing it can be for the individual as a fun and/or practical recreational activity that can also be useful (and fun) for getting around town and is can be more convenient and/or economical than driving a motor vehicle or taking public transportation when the conditions are suitable.

OTOH, touting the environmental benefits of reduced air pollution may help sell bicycling infrastructure to officials looking to demonstrate that they are doing "something" about a real problem whether it is effective or not.
Not just as a reduced air pollution benefit, but for personal exercise, which is often touted, and reduced traffic crowding which requires the need for more infrastructure, and of course for the positive reasons you mentioned, as well as the economic benefits of increased tourism in an area that is conducive to cycling. There are a plethora of reasons to encourage cycling... saving the planet is just a tiny aspect of it.

But the fact is that cycling is rarely encouraged... it is often an afterthought, not a forethought. And until it becomes a forethought, then, the answer to the OP question is "THEY" will never learn.
genec is offline  
Old 08-27-20, 01:46 PM
  #17  
I-Like-To-Bike
Been Around Awhile
 
I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 28,365

Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked 437 Times in 278 Posts
Originally Posted by genec View Post
Not just as a reduced air pollution benefit, but for personal exercise, which is often touted, and reduced traffic crowding which requires the need for more infrastructure, and of course for the positive reasons you mentioned, as well as the economic benefits of increased tourism in an area that is conducive to cycling.
I would be surprised if any U.S. city could document any significant reduction in motor vehicle traffic and associated pollution as a result of more bicycling infrastructure being built/painted in the area. I would not be surprised if a small reduction in the use of public transportation, at least during favorable weather conditions, could be associated with increased bicycling infrastructure.

I would be surprised if much tourism economic benefits could demonstrated to be associated with added U.S. bicycling infrastructure outside of eating establishments and lodging in close proximity to bicycle rail-trails and similar bicycling friendly infrastructure in non urban locations.

Perhaps one of BF's Googling xperts might be able to dig out some surprising data on the subject of the actual economic benefits or environmental benefits U.S. cities have actually derived (not just been promised or forecasted) from increased expenditures on bicycling specific infrastructure. I think perhaps the best bang for the buck is making the adaptions to public transit vehicles that allow commuters and recreational cyclists to take their bikes on public transportation vehicles.
I-Like-To-Bike is offline  
Old 08-27-20, 02:14 PM
  #18  
genec
genec
 
genec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Posts: 26,642

Bikes: custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2

Mentioned: 45 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9228 Post(s)
Liked 1,518 Times in 1,038 Posts
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
I would be surprised if any U.S. city could document any significant reduction in motor vehicle traffic and associated pollution as a result of more bicycling infrastructure being built/painted in the area. I would not be surprised if a small reduction in the use of public transportation, at least during favorable weather conditions, could be associated with increased bicycling infrastructure.

I would be surprised if much tourism economic benefits could demonstrated to be associated with added U.S. bicycling infrastructure outside of eating establishments and lodging in close proximity to bicycle rail-trails and similar bicycling friendly infrastructure in non urban locations.

Perhaps one of BF's Googling xperts might be able to dig out some surprising data on the subject of the actual economic benefits or environmental benefits U.S. cities have actually derived (not just been promised or forecasted) from increased expenditures on bicycling specific infrastructure. I think perhaps the best bang for the buck is making the adaptions to public transit vehicles that allow commuters and recreational cyclists to take their bikes on public transportation vehicles.
While I almost tend to agree... as right now cycling is NOT encouraged to any real extent... I suspect there are some cities that might buck your data points... such as Davis, CA. Frankly any city that has a modal share of about 10% (few) has reaped the benefits of cycling regardless of documentation of such.

Sure, you win based on that aspect alone... there is no real mileage tracking, number of commutes or reduced traffic/increased parking data based on cycling use... that information is just not gathered... as again, cycling is "dismissed" in the US.

The most interesting "acceptance" of cycling I encountered was years ago when my auto insurance carrier questioned my low car mileage... It was verified at their local office and they gave me an "RV rate" due to low vehicle use.

I was also given a stipend by a large company due to them being able to claim me as part of their "car use reduction" campaign where commuters were encouraged to car pool, ride buses or use other public transit by the state of California. They only reason they knew I rode a bike is that the company supplied bike lockers and I filled out a form for one. Who knows what happened to that documentation... but certain that could provide one data point. Based on the traffic in that So Cal city however, I know I was definitely in the minority... in spite of the generally young engineering staff at that company.

But yes, I agree... documentation would likely be difficult to come by.
genec is offline  
Likes For genec:
Old 08-27-20, 04:30 PM
  #19  
Miele Man
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 4,257

Bikes: iele Latina, Miele Suprema, Miele Uno LS, Miele Miele Beta, MMTB, Bianchi Model Unknown, Fiori Venezia, Fiori Napoli, VeloSport Adamas AX

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1154 Post(s)
Liked 705 Times in 498 Posts
As a life-long bicyclist with over 60 years of bicycling experience, I'll say I'm NOT a fan of MOST bicycle lanes. Far too many of them are simple painted stripes that put the bicyclist right in the door zone of parked cars. Bicycle lanes often remove the bicyclist from a driver's lien-of-sight which means the driver does NOT SEE the bicyclist and therefore is much more likely to right-hook the bicyclist at any intersection including driveways and entrances to parking lots. Far too many bicycle lanes end abruptly. Where does a bicyclist afraid or or leery of riding with motor traffic go then? For that matter how does the bicyclist get to the bike lane in the first place? Making a left turn onto a cross-street is often impossible from a bike lane especially a segregated bike lane. Another problem with bicycle lanes is that an overtaking driver often has no idea how fast a bicyclist is travelling. There again, if the bicyclist needs to merge left into traffic or if the driver makes a right turn a collision is a greater liklihood than if the bicyclist was riding in the traffic lane.

On top of this a lot of people do not like the idea of a traffic lane being removed just to accommodate a handful a few bicyclists. Waterloo Region in Ontario, Canada recently use orange cones to put in temporary bicycle lanes in three cities. The was such an outcry in one of the cities because the main road there only had one traffic lane left for automobiles, passed a hospital, and the bike lane had few users that the bike lane was removed. That actually made it safer for bicyclists to use that road because the temporary bike lane force bicyclists to ride in the gutter area with no way to avoid a pothole or any debris.

Add to this the fact that there is a significant drop in bicyclists in winter or in other inclement weather and you can see why many people don't see the need for bicycle lanes. So few bicyclist use them that the cost just doesn't seem to justify them.

Cheers
Miele Man is offline  
Likes For Miele Man:
Old 08-27-20, 07:31 PM
  #20  
Digger Goreman
Quidam Bike Super Hero
 
Digger Goreman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Decatur, GA (Metro Atlanta, East)
Posts: 952

Bikes: 1995 Trek 800 Sport, aka, "Frankentrek"/"Camel-Trek"

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 270 Post(s)
Liked 301 Times in 209 Posts
Knowledge is in objects (reductionism); wisdom is in processes (synergies). If leaders use knowledge in support of wisdom, we have a chance. Right now, chances are slimmer than a gnat's razor. Leaders lack wisdom and, as we've seen, those serving the "leaders" don't know the objective laws, nor care/have a clue about the big picture....

Getting everyone to the big picture is not only worth it, but essential to survival. Covid should have been the universal epiphany.... How much more is it gonna take?
Digger Goreman is offline  
Likes For Digger Goreman:
Old 08-28-20, 03:26 AM
  #21  
genec
genec
 
genec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Posts: 26,642

Bikes: custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2

Mentioned: 45 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9228 Post(s)
Liked 1,518 Times in 1,038 Posts
So, in summary... cyclists hate bike lanes, motorists hate cyclists, cycling could save the planet, nobody does it.

OK, that about wrap things up?
genec is offline  
Likes For genec:
Old 08-28-20, 05:54 AM
  #22  
Pop N Wood
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Maryland
Posts: 686

Bikes: 1982 Bianchi Sport SX, Rayleigh Tamland 1, Rans V-Rex recumbent, Fuji MTB, 80's Cannondale MTB with BBSHD ebike motor

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 308 Post(s)
Liked 255 Times in 168 Posts
Originally Posted by closetbiker View Post
there still is a large segment of the population that complains about what is good for them
I think this statement is the crux of the problem. Takes a bit of moxie for you to decide what is good for someone else, don't you think?

Hate to tell you, but the people arguing with you don't agree with you. Your conversations will never progress until you understand that. They don't use bikes as transportation, from the sounds of things very few people they know do either, so they don't see bikes as "good for them". They only see them as a further impediment on their commute to work.
Pop N Wood is offline  
Old 08-28-20, 07:07 AM
  #23  
closetbiker
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
closetbiker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 9,630
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Liked 18 Times in 6 Posts
Originally Posted by Pop N Wood View Post
...they don't see bikes as "good for them". They only see them as a further impediment on their commute to work.
I often say if I wasnít on my bike and they werenít cursing me as they squeeze by me, Iíd be in my car driving too slow for them and they wouldnít be having such an easy time squeezing by
closetbiker is offline  
Old 08-28-20, 07:34 AM
  #24  
genec
genec
 
genec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Posts: 26,642

Bikes: custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2

Mentioned: 45 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9228 Post(s)
Liked 1,518 Times in 1,038 Posts
Originally Posted by closetbiker View Post
thatís certainly not the case here in Vancouver but still, even with this extensive commitment and success initiated by advocates and the city, (https://usa.streetsblog.org/2019/06/...ter-bike-lane/) there still is a large segment of the population that complains about what is good for them
Indeed... many motorists complain about speed limits and stop signs... Go figure.
genec is offline  
Likes For genec:
Old 08-28-20, 09:21 AM
  #25  
I-Like-To-Bike
Been Around Awhile
 
I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 28,365

Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked 437 Times in 278 Posts
Originally Posted by genec View Post
So, in summary... cyclists hate bike lanes, motorists hate cyclists, cycling could save the planet, nobody does it.

OK, that about wrap things up?
I would qualify your summary by preceding it with: [Some ardent bicycling ideologues believe and spout some or all of the following grossly exaggerated generalizations and stereotypes:] ... cyclists hate bike lanes, motorists hate cyclists, cycling could save the planet, nobody does it.
I-Like-To-Bike is offline  
Likes For I-Like-To-Bike:

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.