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cop has right-of-way, but yields anyway

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cop has right-of-way, but yields anyway

Old 09-21-20, 06:54 AM
  #1  
epnnf
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cop has right-of-way, but yields anyway

I approach a stop sign intersection. I notice a Glendale (Ohio) police car @ the cross street. He was there first. I come to a complete stop/put my foot down; he gives a hand signal for me to go ahead. Why??? Happens all the time- a given car will have the right-of-way, but still yield to me (I'm sure cause I'm a bike). Frustrating.
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Old 09-21-20, 07:02 AM
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Clyde1820
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Defensive driving has its place. In similar situations where either a) someone's coming rapidly to an intersection and looks like he/she won't be stopping, or b) a cyclist is coming where in my experience in that area many barely stop or don't stop. I can only assume the LEO was thinking along these lines.

Of course, LE frequently is listening to dispatches and finds opportune times to sit and eval for a few moments. Might occur if already stopped at a traffic sign.


And too, in some parts of the country, particularly in some communities, it's commonplace for the other to be given the right of way, even if technically the "book" says the one has it.

Myself, I just go with it. I tend to drive or ride exceptionally defensively, assuming the other at a cross-street is likely to do the worst possible thing just as I'm at the most-vulnerable spot. So, for me at least, it's no skin off my nose to get positive confirmation from the other if there's any question. I tend to be in no rush. Though, if clearly there well in advance, and there's no question of the other person taking liberties, I'll continue on and take that right of way the way the other assumes I will.
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Old 09-21-20, 07:30 AM
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All of the above. Lots of things to do in a patrol car including operating a mobile data terminal for dispatches and running plates. It's safer to do that while stopped.

Just because you don't know the reason doesn't mean there isn't a good reason.
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Old 09-21-20, 07:52 AM
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Whenever that has happened in the past, they followed me until they could make up a reason to pull me over.
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Old 09-21-20, 09:03 AM
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I think I'd suddenly decide to turn right instead of rolling out in front of the cop when he has right of way. That same cop would tell you, if someone waved you through then hit you, that no amount of waving changes the right of way.

If you trust the other guy that's fine. But I wouldn't trust the cop loitering suspiciously at a stop sign.
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Old 09-21-20, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by epnnf View Post
I approach a stop sign intersection. I notice a Glendale (Ohio) police car @ the cross street. He was there first. I come to a complete stop/put my foot down; he gives a hand signal for me to go ahead. Why??? Happens all the time- a given car will have the right-of-way, but still yield to me (I'm sure cause I'm a bike). Frustrating.
The cop could have yelled at you for not riding far enough at the right. Seems like it's better that he stopped for you.

I suspect many drivers who stop really don't trust that the rider will do something sensible. That is, they are driving defensively (rather than being polite).
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Old 09-21-20, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by wphamilton View Post
I think I'd suddenly decide to turn right instead of rolling out in front of the cop when he has right of way. That same cop would tell you, if someone waved you through then hit you, that no amount of waving changes the right of way.
They aren't "waving you through" (that is, it's wrong and dangerous to interpret any waving like that). One should only go (right of way or not; hand waving or not) when you decide it's safe to do so.

Originally Posted by wphamilton View Post
If you trust the other guy that's fine. But I wouldn't trust the cop loitering suspiciously at a stop sign.
This cop didn't seem to be "loitering suspiciously at a stop sign". Sometimes, being paranoid doesn't mean they are out to get you.
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Old 09-21-20, 12:17 PM
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I try not to get too upset with cars unless they are doing something that is potentially dangerous to me. I'd prefer they be cautious than careless. For instance, I have caught myself getting a little ticked when a car is hesitating when they don't need to which then causes me to have to slow down far more than I otherwise would have. But then I realize that getting upset because they were cautious is like looking a gift horse in the mouth.
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Old 09-21-20, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by c_m_shooter View Post
Whenever that has happened in the past, they followed me until they could make up a reason to pull me over.
man, that's mean
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Old 09-21-20, 01:08 PM
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It's really a problem at the local, & popular, MUP. When the trail crosses a road, cars have no sign at all and bikes have at least one stop sign. But when cars see you, they're almost guaranteed to stop. That is, cars don't have stop sign, but stop anyway; bikes have stop sign, but don't stop.
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Old 09-21-20, 02:00 PM
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I have a rule, never pay any attention to anyone waving me to go. I broke that rule some weeks ago when stopped at a road crossing on our MUP where I had clearly signaled my intention to turn left. A Sheriff coming into the intersection stopped and waved me to go ahead. I went onto the street and turned left in front of the stopped Sheriff. I proceeded ahead with the Sheriff following. I figured fine, I took the lane. Wrong, the LEO passed me by taking the left lane around the turn to the next intersection. I yelled quite strongly "**** you pig" as he passed. At the intersection we both stopped and he rolled down his window. "What did you say"?" You heard it, you didn't need to pass me on that blind curve. "It was not blind". Yes it was. After sitting there for a couple seconds I took off to the right on the intersection and he went straight back to County territory. Next time that happened, I ignored the sheriff and looked at the tread on my tire or the clouds or anything except acknowledging him and waited it out. Eventually he went on his way. I was safe, that's what matters.

Last edited by cb400bill; 09-21-20 at 02:05 PM. Reason: Don't change the spelling of censored words
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Old 09-21-20, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by epnnf View Post
It's really a problem at the local, & popular, MUP. When the trail crosses a road, cars have no sign at all and bikes have at least one stop sign. But when cars see you, they're almost guaranteed to stop. That is, cars don't have stop sign, but stop anyway; bikes have stop sign, but don't stop.
Man, I hear you brother. I have briefly tried telling them (through gestures) that I have to stop, while they have the right of way. I'm not interested in pissing matches about this stuff though, so as long as I have a clear crossing from the other direction, I'll take what I can get. I silently pray that the time it takes me to evaluate the traffic that isn't stopping from the other direction reinforces to them that they've stopped at a railroad crossing with no reason.

I'm also surprised that you managed to find a stop sign in Glenford, OH, population 176! There's only half a dozen streets!
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Old 09-21-20, 05:10 PM
  #13  
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Motorists waving me thru when they have the right-of-way. This has nothing to do with the motorist being a cop, at least in my experience here in Jax Fl. This happens to me all the time and I'm sick of it. Just treat me like another vehicle.
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Old 09-21-20, 06:11 PM
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And what happens when they wave you and car behind them goes around them and hits you?
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Old 09-21-20, 07:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Bmach View Post
And what happens when they wave you and car behind them goes around them and hits you?
Head on a swivel, man. It's just like any other crossing. I can't control when a driver infantalizes me, only how I deal with it.
It's a toss up for MUP crossings; I'm a vehicle on a high speed sidewalk then, so do they yield to me like a pedestrian, or treat me like all other traffic? [I know the answer, it's a rhetorical question.] There are just enough submissive drivers around that, if they pause long enough at a 4 way stop after I've stopped when they have ROW, I unambiguously take that turn. It's the same way I drive.

Last edited by Unca_Sam; 09-22-20 at 08:59 AM. Reason: clarification, not like it's critical
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Old 09-22-20, 07:43 AM
  #16  
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Originally Posted by Clyde1820 View Post
Defensive driving has its place. In similar situations where either a) someone's coming rapidly to an intersection and looks like he/she won't be stopping, or b) a cyclist is coming where in my experience in that area many barely stop or don't stop. I can only assume the LEO was thinking along these lines.

Of course, LE frequently is listening to dispatches and finds opportune times to sit and eval for a few moments. Might occur if already stopped at a traffic sign.


And too, in some parts of the country, particularly in some communities, it's commonplace for the other to be given the right of way, even if technically the "book" says the one has it.

Myself, I just go with it. I tend to drive or ride exceptionally defensively, assuming the other at a cross-street is likely to do the worst possible thing just as I'm at the most-vulnerable spot. So, for me at least, it's no skin off my nose to get positive confirmation from the other if there's any question. I tend to be in no rush. Though, if clearly there well in advance, and there's no question of the other person taking liberties, I'll continue on and take that right of way the way the other assumes I will.
can’t stand people waving me through when they have RoW. Happens at intersection, rotaries. Yes, I have a nice face, but inside I’m a bastard - treat me like one and we’ll all be happier and safer.
Also people stopping at intersections to check their phones/whatever. Other road users don’t know whether you’re simply taking a long stop, or stroking out. So the person behind you has to sit there, not knowing what you’re doing or intend to do. People crossing in front of you don’t know if you’re waiting for them, or if you’re going to suddenly awake from your fugue state and accelerate into the intersection.
the sign says “Stop”, not “Camp Out” - if you need to check your phone, pull over somewhere where your intent won’t be misinterpreted
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Old 09-22-20, 07:51 AM
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Wow, lots of paranoia and feelings of persecution expressed in this thread. I think Hanlon's razor applies: "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

People think they're being nice. Admittedly, they may be unintentionally endangering us, but why not just take the gesture in the spirit in which it is meant, and either proceed with caution (if safe) or politely decline the offer - either directly or by stratagem (take a drink from your bottle, fiddle with your computer, etc.)?

I can see being mildly annoyed in the moment, but the level of outrage expressed by many in this thread seems out of proportion.
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Old 09-22-20, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by noimagination View Post
Wow, lots of paranoia and feelings of persecution expressed in this thread. I think Hanlon's razor applies: "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

People think they're being nice. Admittedly, they may be unintentionally endangering us, but why not just take the gesture in the spirit in which it is meant, and either proceed with caution (if safe) or politely decline the offer - either directly or by stratagem (take a drink from your bottle, fiddle with your computer, etc.)?

I can see being mildly annoyed in the moment, but the level of outrage expressed by many in this thread seems out of proportion.
Several people here just made up their stories. I wouldn't take them too seriously.
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Old 09-22-20, 09:35 AM
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I fail to see what the issue is. Cop is stopped, you stop, he motions for you to go. You didn't mention if there was other traffic there so I assume it was just you the intersection and the cop....what am I missing?
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Old 09-22-20, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by noimagination View Post
Wow, lots of paranoia and feelings of persecution expressed in this thread ...

People think they're being nice. Admittedly, they may be unintentionally endangering us, but why not just take the gesture in the spirit in which it is meant, and either proceed with caution (if safe) or politely decline the offer ...
That's all it takes.

Not all that different than, say, approaching a door at roughly the same time as another, and deciding to offer the other the opportunity to go through first.
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Old 09-22-20, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Clyde1820 View Post
That's all it takes.

Not all that different than, say, approaching a door at roughly the same time as another, and deciding to offer the other the opportunity to go through first.
There are no laws proscribing the method intended for safely and efficiently navigating a doorway when more than one individual intends to pass through it. That's the key difference. When another motorist isn't operating their vehicle in a safe and predictable manner, they are endangering themselves and others. They'll never get a ticket for being extra cautious, but they may end up causing a few more accidents for stopping unpredictably.
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Old 09-22-20, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Bmach View Post
And what happens when they wave you and car behind them goes around them and hits you?
It means you are doing it wrong.

All the driver is doing by waving is yielding. He isn't saying it's safe for you to go (because only you can determine that).
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Old 09-22-20, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by njkayaker View Post
It's defensive driving. The driver has no assurance that you are going to stop.
Agreed.

This may not be true everywhere, but where I ride few cyclists stop and yield the right of way at stop signs. If a car is stopped at a stop sign and the cyclist is approaching a stop sign crossing the stopped vehicle's right of way (for example: approaching 4 way stop with driver stopped on left or right; or approaching 2 way stop and driver is stopped in oncoming lane with left blinker on), the majority of cyclists will slow, then take the right of way and go through the stop sign unless the car is already in motion.

Most drivers in my locale expect this, so the cyclist who stops and yields the right of way is the one gumming up the works.
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Old 09-22-20, 03:47 PM
  #24  
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I don't know that there is a law that says if you have the right of way you can't yield it? That being said of course you have to exercise ordinary care if someone yields to you or not. I don't see it any different than being a ped and even though all vehicles must stop when I enter the cross-walk,
I might wave a car through if I see no problem crossing after the car passes.

scott s.
.
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Old 09-22-20, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by noimagination View Post
Agreed.

This may not be true everywhere, but where I ride few cyclists stop and yield the right of way at stop signs. If a car is stopped at a stop sign and the cyclist is approaching a stop sign crossing the stopped vehicle's right of way (for example: approaching 4 way stop with driver stopped on left or right; or approaching 2 way stop and driver is stopped in oncoming lane with left blinker on), the majority of cyclists will slow, then take the right of way and go through the stop sign unless the car is already in motion.

Most drivers in my locale expect this, so the cyclist who stops and yields the right of way is the one gumming up the works.
I wouldn't count on an apparently conditioned population of drivers to hold up this odd arrangement. You'd get some angry (and deserved) honks around here for failing to yield. I loathe stopping too, but I'm not risking my health and property because of that.
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