BlindRobert

Show Up, Speak.

BlindRobert

THIS FRIDAY UNION SQUARE. Print the flier and post it anywhere you can.

powers2b

Get Mirandized.

Enjoy

BlindRobert

coward.

twahl

It's a damn shame that Times Up! has done so much to harm cycling, and that so many misguided people follow them.

nycm'er

I was dying to say something smarmy back, but I can't, tell me, what are you talking about TWAHL? Are you commenting on Times Up! in Molasses VA? Or in NYC?

brokenrobot

He's not talking about anything. He just likes to make a stink in every CM thread - doesn't like environmentalists, and thinks their lefty politics are hurting bike advocacy.

twahl

If you can explain how this:



and this:



and this:



...all images that Times-Up! are so proud to display, do anything to give non-cyclists any reason to have any positive feelings toward cyclists. Isn't advocacy supposed to result in support by those that don't currently share your point of view? Time-Up! has hijacked the Critical Mass rides in New York to further their environmentalist goals. Some cyclists ride because of their environmental beliefs, but intentionally causing a problem for the majority of people you share the road with does not convince them that you are right. It annoys the hell out of them and forces them to beg officials to take action against you, not for you. It doesn't take a genius to read the reports and see that the results of their involvement has been bad for cyclists, not good.

Laika

wow, then I guess it's a good thing you don't live in nyc, don't belong to xup and don't ride cm nyc!

theopowers

"The etiquette to be observed in cycling is to be civil to all"

Is this always your signature, or did you specifically post it for painful irony?

Good post, Tom.

STEEKER

YA we have anti CM riders up here in Toronto like this guy but no worries just like always the rest of us fight for the right to ride bikes and the right to ride on the road WE ARE TRAFFIC we were here before cars!!! and CM has made a HUGE differance for bike riders all positive and a few negatives which the the anti CM worms BLOW up to be major things which they are not , So to the anti CM peeps you go tell some parent or spouse who's has had some one killed by a careless driver that it is not worth standing up and doing something about it ,,, the nay sayers can gripe all they want but MAN do they ever get mad when a car hits them or cuts them off eh ,,,,,,,,,,,,, bike = Freedom

twahl

Guess you missed it, huh? Or do you equate all CM to Times-Up!? I was very specific. Time's Up has drawn nothing but negative attention to CM in the eyes of the general public. Standing up and blocking automotive traffic does not make me safer. It pisses drivers off, who are now much LESS likely to be courteous to me and my family. It does not encourage them to be more careful or courteous, it makes them see cyclists as obstructions, because these events have deliberately caused obstruction using bicycles.

After all, why are you protesting? Because drivers are discourteous, cause you inconvenience, and sometimes endanger you. Did it work for them? Did that behavior on their part cause you to give them more room and react favorably?

Laika

Was I uncivil to twahl? Did anything in my post suggest I practice incivility to anyone, on the bike or off? Would you like to further explain yorself, or shall I just dismiss you without thanks right now?

twahl

I think his point is that your sig, "The etiquette to be observed in cycling is to be civil to all" pretty much flies in the face of the example set by the people in those pictures. People on bicycles deliberately blocking traffic is not an example of being "civil to all." I hope Theo will correct me if I'm wrong.

Laika

How did what I posted have anything to do with what you and he have responded with? I responded:

Does anything there give you enough information to conclude I regularly block traffic or otherwise cycle in an uncivil manner?

Y'all need to work on your reading comprehension, I think. Not to mention your manners.

twahl

Gee. I dunno. Let's try these:

"I've missed the last couple but it's been my experience in Brooklyn that with police holding up traffic and corking for us, the end result is exactly the same as we would achieve on our own"

"I do yell at folks to get out of my way if they've strayed into the bike path"

Just a couple of recent examples of what I would consider uncivil behavior. I wasn't going to dig. You seem to be defending people that intentionally cause obstruction, if not actually participating in it.

Laika

Ignoring the fact that you're really not responding in a meaningful way to my original post in this thread...

Brooklyn CM=/= NYC CM. But you knew that.

Warning people loudly that your coming ==more civil than running them down. But you knew that.

You==troll. But you knew that.

Of course, if you can identify me as the guy in the picture, I'd concede the point. :snicker:

Go to bed.

brokenrobot

You must be reading the Post. Every other piece of media I've seen in New York has been unrelentingly positive about Critical Mass, even with Times Up! being involved. And frankly, I'd trust News Corp about as far as I can throw Murdoch.

I'd love to know where you're getting this. I ride regularly, and have never seen a reaction that wasn't overwhelmingly positive from onlookers; the press has been overwhelmingly positive; New Yorkers responding to the press ahve been overwhelmingly positive in the letters that have been printed. And the vast majority of the general public in New York doesn't drive. Can you provide examples?

Laika

No, he can't, because he's a troll. Nothing to see here. Move on.

slvoid

CM is good, the only thing I don't like are when I see these guys on all types of bikes (so I can't really classify a single group) flying around throw the city with the group, cept they're hopping all over the sidewalks, through pedestrains, etc. That and the people who use CM as a means to grab attention towards their own agendas.

They're inevitable, unavoidable, and in my opinion, unwanted.

nycm'er

BrokenRobot, with your bad knee I don't think you should throw anyone.

theopowers

Sorry for the delay. My friend and I decided that since he lives forty minutes away, it would be best if we drank a few beers and had him crash at my place in preparation for our fifty-mile ride tomorrow. Clearly not the best decision , after more than a few beers and a significant reduction in our planned mileage tomorrow .

Tom interpreted my post correctly. I wasn't accusing you of incivility. I was simply pointing out the irony of your sig vis-a-vis your apparent disdain for his post about the incivility of certain cm'ers. Thus my use of the big grin instead of the mad frown.

I don't know tons about CM, but I bike-commute in DC five days a week. Trust me, I'm all in favor of advocacy for sharing the road. But I also know that extremism is no way to foster the "understanding" of drivers, thus my support for Tom's post. Good causes are unfortunately sometimes hijacked by extremists, and are derailed in the process.

Are we all good now?

Laika

Though I still don't see the irony, I am powerless before your mighty onslaught of emoticons.

theopowers

At two in the morning, it seemed like a cool idea to try to use all seventeen available smilies. Didn't make it, though. I especially wasn't sure what to do with "Happy Birthday".

Laika

Wait til early June and post again. Good try though.