phillydcbiker

Saw this on DC critical mass list-

CRUM

Man, am I ever so glad I decided to leave the DC area when I did.

lilHinault

We have our troops deployed over in Iraq, and it's DC where they're needed. Figures.

Bikepacker67

And the irony of it all is that some of you around here get all self-righteous when others mention that they pack heat when they ride....

linux_author

- it's not called the District of Confusion without reason...

(used to live in Arlington's Shirlington, had a house just off the bike trail but took the money and ran)

mac

I thought that post-9/11, DC is like a Police State or "1984" with very heavily armed officers (who look more like an army unit than a civilian unit) at every corner. At least that's what all of the pictures that I see in the news from DC show.

DC_Emily

It was like that for about six months after 9/11. I used to live at 13th and Mass. Ave, which is appx. 7 blocks from the White House. There used to be armored hummers and MP's with weapons stationed in all the downtown parks. It's not as bad anymore, but presence is still heavy. It's been stepped up a bit after the London attacks.

As far as the cyclist robbing thing, the sad part is that Columbia Rd. is actually not THAT bad of a section of town. Don't get me wrong, 5 yrs ago you wouldn't walk through there alone, but I have a friend who recently bought a 2BR apt in that area for $600,000.

H23

Aside from the rubber-necking points, I see nothing of value in reporting such an incident to us on a national forum.

Perhaps it would be worth it if there was some extraordinary detail, or comedic element-- but there was none. As described this was a run-of-the-mill assault and robbery. The end result on here will be that n posters will use this as an example of why all cyclists should be armed, and m posters will indicate that cities are violent dangerous places and that everyone should be living out in the 'burbs.

cc_rider

Got to agree with H23. Sounds like a common assault and robbery.

CB HI

A common assault and robbery, in which a cyclist was targeted. That makes it a bicycling safety issue worthy of posting.

I do think the OPs should include as many of the details as possible prior to posting. (but those are sometimes limited by what the police are willing to put out).

This is the third posted assault and robbery of a cyclist in recent months in DC. The first was a female who was knock out. The second was a retired man who was murdered. Same person committed these 2 and was arrested. Maybe it is the same person out on bail or released for whatever lame reason.

These post serve as a reasonable heads up for both resident and visitor cyclist to be aware of your surroundings in DC. Details let us narrow down the paths or neighborhood of concern.

lilHinault

Hey, I think riders SHOULD pack heat if it's necessary. In DC it's necessary. And I know too much about Hawaii, it's VERY necessary there!

H23

People should be alert to their surroundings wherever they go. Its not like only certain streets are "zoned" for crime.

Anyway, if someone wants to get a useable picture of the crime situation in a city, it can be looked-up. Many cities have extensive crime stats available. Using a few sketchy data points from a bicycle forum does NOT paint a realistic picture.

dynaryder

In DC,it's illegal.

The mayor does not want people carrying guns. Except,of course,for his bodyguards.

cydewaze

So then the muggers would now have a bike, a checkbook, and a gun, instead of just the first two.

Shooting someone once you've been smashed on the head with a rock then knocked off a bike would be a bit challenging.

Dchiefransom

That's why you shoot before they get the gun. If people like that want a gun, they have no trouble getting one illegally anyway.

Bikepacker67

You can bet these punks were already intimidating the victim B4 the rock was thrown
It's just too bad that the cyclist couldn't go all Bernie Goetz on their "gangsta" asses.

Dchiefransom

Unfortunately, Bernard Goetz found out how society feels about people that defend themselves against superior numbers that are robbing you and carrying shanks.

eb23air

Great, and I was looking forward to starting bike commuting when I move to DC in 2 weeks for law school. Getting attacked while riding a bike is not something I thought of before, but I guess I have to be on the lookout for more than cars...

lilHinault

I didn't say a thing about legal or illegal. I said necessary.

DCCommuter

Maybe from Sunnyvale, CA, it looks that way, but somehow I've managed to bike virtually every day for the past 12 years through DC and never felt the need for a gun.

DC's biggest problem is that everyone in the rest of the country seems to know what's best for us.

cydewaze

So, you're on a bike with a gun. Where do you keep it? Jersey? Sock? Backpack?

Regardless of where the gun is, you have to get to it, and during this time your assailants will most likely notice. Perhaps you can get it out and shoot one (or more) of them without a struggle for the gun ensuing, but it's probably more likely that it'll turn into one person straddling a bicycle versus five muggers, all wrestling for the gun.

Whether they can get a gun or not is irrelevant, because either way one has now been introduced into the situation. Given the circumstances, the cyclist is probably just as likely to get shot as the muggers, not to mention the stray bullets hitting someone else.

This is assuming there was even time to react to the situation. It could easily have been a surprise attack, in which case the muggers get the bike/gun/etc without a struggle. The only way that the gun makes this situation safer is if the muggers happen to give the cyclist the opportunity to pull the gun, and he manages to either scare them away with it, or shoot them before they can retaliate.

If the gun makes you safer, by all means carry it. I have yet to be convinced.

ZenNMotion

So, you've been surprised (no time to shoot, or you are you actually planning to squeeze off a couple rounds from your bike seat every time you're startled?) and knocked off your bike, possibly outnumbered. You get hurt,lose your bike and wallet. Or... you have your gun! Fumble fumble... who gets shot first- looks like he got your gun too! Now what? It's mostly kids doing the quick hit and run stuff. So you're gonna set up a situation to either kill a teenager, or be killed with your own gun? Dumb-azz cowboys...

Bikepacker67

Let me ask you Zen....

What would a police officer do if he came upon a robbery in action?

He would pull his weapon, sir.

Most of the responsible (Ohhh... and LEGAL) gun owners I know have had AT LEAST as much training with firearms as any police officer on a beat (you REALLY think that strapped city budgets have the ability to fund cops hitting the range as often as enthusiasts do?).

So basically, the real question I have for you is this:
Isn't it rather "Eloi Like" to expect others to be responsible for your safety and well being?

And don't forget, in many of these robberies, all the victim gets as a reward for complying with the teeny-boppin-thugster is a brick upside the head.

phinney

Private citizens successfully use firearms in self defense every day. There is nothing unique about a bicycle which reduces the effectiveness of a firearm for personal protection.

Tabor

I carry a Kahr PM9 in a FIST K5 pocket holster. This necesitates that I not wear spandex.

Well, statistically it will turn into 5 people running away without any shots fired (FBI stats). Also, shooting someone is the #1 best was to STOP a violent attack (Armed by Kleck and Kates).

What's wrong with introducing a gun into a situation where you are being assaulted by FIVE individuals using DANGEROUR PHYSICAL FORCE (Oregon Revised Statute)?

Armed civilians are much better shots than police officers. If I shoot an innocent bystander, I get five to ten.

How do they know I have a gun? Are they really going to search me, or are they just going to take my money and run? Again, this has not been a problem in a past.

How about this? I am on my way home and I find five guys beating some cyclist to death. At least in Oregon, I can shoot them.

Okay. But remember, muggings are not the only thing I carry a gun to defend myself against. Actually, I do not think the likelyhood of me using a gun while cycling is very great, but what if I stop at a convenience store/gas station for a snack? What if they get robbed while I am there? What if the whole thing turns into executing witnesses or a hostage situation? Obviously carrying a gun is not for everyone, but I beleive that every law abiding citizen should have the choice.

EDIT:

I am an avowed liberal, but I can never understand why so many liberals are anti-gun. If you are a liberal that would like the to learn more facts about gun ownership, gun use in self defense, and gun control you should read Armed: New Perspectives on Gun Control by Gary Kleck and Don B. Kates (https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...books&n=507846). It is not anti-liberal nor pro-concervative in the slightest. There is also some discussion on what is and is not a resonable level of gun control.