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Reverse Nicehole FAIL

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Reverse Nicehole FAIL

Old 06-23-21, 12:55 PM
  #1  
flangehead
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Reverse Nicehole FAIL

When I make mistakes I let you know so YOU DON"T HAVE TO.

After a two week detour around my normal commute route due to construction, I returned to my normal route today and promptly did a bad move which I regretted.

Setup is a) when riding, I do try to move left in the lane at a red light if a motorist is signaling for a right turn (on red) and I can safely accommodate them, b) I have to go straight under a freeway and most of the traffic is peeling off to the right or left; straight traffic is a small percentage; I take the right-most lane consistent with my destination. and c) the intersection looks like this:


Cross-traffic is Interstate access road with a major on-ramp about 1/2 mile to the east.


So today the traffic light is red and there are maybe 3, 4 cars in front of me (position A) and I've got a car with their right-hand flasher going behind me (I know it is hard to believe...). The cycle on this light is that a green arrow comes on for right-turning traffic about 30 seconds before the through-traffic light turns green. As it happens, the cars in front of me turn right and I'm suddenly at the red light. At this point my nicehole reptilian brain moved me to position B to let the signalling driver make a right. But then the green light comes on and I have other cars behind it gunning their way to the intersection and now I'm stuck in position B.

Ugly, ugly, ugly.

I won't ever do that again. My nicehole hippocampus tried to kill me and I've got to control the little @%^%.

Don't do it.
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Old 06-23-21, 02:55 PM
  #2  
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I never understand why any would have a lane be both straight or turn and then not have both the green and turn arrows come on at the same time. Makes sense for intersections that only one side can go at a time. Perhaps this intersection once was that.

Perhaps a question that you should take up with the people that do traffic signals there. We had that once here and might still have, but I can't think of where it is.

What does a car do if it's in that lane wanting to go straight and everyone behind is honking their horn because it's lunch hour and they want to turn right?
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Old 06-23-21, 05:56 PM
  #3  
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Originally Posted by Iride01 View Post
What does a car do if it's in that lane wanting to go straight and everyone behind is honking their horn because it's lunch hour and they want to turn right?
Put it in reverse and gun it?
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Old 06-26-21, 12:16 PM
  #4  
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Originally Posted by Iride01 View Post
I never understand why any would have a lane be both straight or turn and then not have both the green and turn arrows come on at the same time. Makes sense for intersections that only one side can go at a time. Perhaps this intersection once was that.

Perhaps a question that you should take up with the people that do traffic signals there. We had that once here and might still have, but I can't think of where it is.

What does a car do if it's in that lane wanting to go straight and everyone behind is honking their horn because it's lunch hour and they want to turn right?
Well drivers will wait for other cars... but you have to understand "bicycles don't belong on car streets..." At least that is the mentality that has been explained to me. Yeah, it is pretty much BS... but that is how driver brains process it.
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Old 06-26-21, 04:14 PM
  #5  
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I always let the car behind me make the right turn at a red light, if I'm at the front of the line, i.e. if I arrive at the red light first. (Just out of courtesy -- trying to make up for the bad cyclists out there )

If I don't arrive at the red light first, I just take a position behind the car(s) ahead of me and I'm in the center of the lane (I take the lane behind the car directly ahead of me). I stay in the center of the lane and when the light changes green, I ride directly behind the car in front of me, until I can't maintain the speed of the cars, which would be at least past the intersection -- so in that scenario, the car (directly behind me) can make the right turn exactly the same way as if I were a motorist.

If I'm the first in line and I want to let the car turn, I go to position B on the illustration above, but I move forward as much as possible, even beyond the crosswalk, as long as I'm not impeding any traffic. I may be in front of the cars (to the left) going straight (depends a little on the road construction), but I'm always looking out for the green, especially if I'm first in line, so I can take off right away -- on a bike it's so easy to out-accelerate a car.

I don't understand why the OP says he was "stuck in position B". Please explain.



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Old 06-26-21, 06:24 PM
  #6  
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Originally Posted by Iride01 View Post
I never understand why any would have a lane be both straight or turn and then not have both the green and turn arrows come on at the same time.
Anything that helps move cars trough an intersection is a plus.

What does a car do if it's in that lane wanting to go straight and everyone behind is honking their horn because it's lunch hour and they want to turn right?
We have a lot of intersections like that, and people don't honk at the drivers who are going straight. Why would anyone honk at another driver who refused to go through a red light?
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Old 06-27-21, 06:12 AM
  #7  
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Originally Posted by work4bike View Post
If I don't arrive at the red light first, I just take a position behind the car(s) ahead of me and I'm in the center of the lane (I take the lane behind the car directly ahead of me). I stay in the center of the lane and when the light changes green, I ride directly behind the car in front of me, until I can't maintain the speed of the cars, which would be at least past the intersection -- so in that scenario, the car (directly behind me) can make the right turn exactly the same way as if I were a motorist.

If I'm the first in line and I want to let the car turn, I go to position B on the illustration above, but I move forward as much as possible, even beyond the crosswalk, as long as I'm not impeding any traffic. I may be in front of the cars (to the left) going straight (depends a little on the road construction), but I'm always looking out for the green, especially if I'm first in line, so I can take off right away -- on a bike it's so easy to out-accelerate a car.
This is my practice also.

Originally Posted by work4bike View Post
I don't understand why the OP says he was "stuck in position B". Please explain.
This is a location where the majority of the motorists are turning right during rush hour to then get on the freeway.

Once in position B, motorists in my lane built up speed and momentum making the right turn. I remember when the light turned full green (from green right arrow) and I looked back and the vehicle approaching was not signaling for a right turn. So my instinct was to not pull in front a speeding vehicle. I was only able to move when a vehicle signaling a right turn at a reasonable speed arrived. It all happened very fast but I think they slowed to allow me to move in.

Originally Posted by work4bike View Post
If I don't arrive at the red light first, I just take a position behind the car(s) ahead of me and I'm in the center of the lane (I take the lane behind the car directly ahead of me). I stay in the center of the lane and when the light changes green, I ride directly behind the car in front of me, until I can't maintain the speed of the cars, which would be at least past the intersection -- so in that scenario, the car (directly behind me) can make the right turn exactly the same way as if I were a motorist.
Bottom line, it was a failure to do this, which is my standard practice also, that got me in trouble. I think the ambiguity (green for right turn but red for straight) of the situation was the primary cause for my error, but also my return to the route after an extended absence. Adherence to "stay in the center of the lane if not first" is the right thing to do.

I think I can formulate this as "whenever there is an arrow-style traffic light, maintain primary lane position" as a general rule.

Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
We have a lot of intersections like that, and people don't honk at the drivers who are going straight. Why would anyone honk at another driver who refused to go through a red light?
I've been through this intersection many, many times when I did what I should do (stop at the red and stay in primary lane position) and no one has ever honked. I haven't felt threatened at this location and time of day, which is rush hour.

Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
Anything that helps move cars trough an intersection is a plus.
I think that is true for the motorists, but not for pedestrians. In my opinion, right turn on red, a long established practice, has not been friendly to pedestrians. In my area, you put yourself at risk crossing with a "walk" signal because many motorists are concentrating on other vehicles and pedestrians are both relatively rare and not an immediate physical threat. In practice, pedestrians yield to motorists and all the crosswalk paint, beg buttons and signals are just safety theater.

In the particular case of this green arrow, I agree. Pedestrians are "no walk" during the arrow, as you would expect.

I value "no one gets hurt on my trip" over "get there as fast as I can", so I can't agree with the general statement.

Last edited by flangehead; 06-27-21 at 06:29 AM. Reason: Effect of right turn on red on pedestrians.
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Old 06-27-21, 07:03 AM
  #8  
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Ok thanks, I now have more of an understanding. I'm not sure what I'd do at that intersection, it's easy to say by just looking at a picture, but that doesn't give one the whole picture...pardon the pun

I understand there are some areas that can present unique challenges to cyclists, that's why I'd have to experience it; I do have lanes like that here, but I don't really get major rush hour traffic here, and I know that, because I have experienced major rush hour traffic in other areas I've lived/rode, such as Virginia Beach, Va and Washington DC...so I do know the challenges. All I can say is that I'm lucky that my riding style favors that of a sprinter and I can go from zero to near-Cavendish speeds pretty quickly


It's always good to evaluate your riding and not just the accidents/near-accidents, but the much more frequent glitches we cyclists experience all the time.

We cyclists are like 90-lb weaklings getting in the ring with Andre the Giant



Last edited by work4bike; 06-27-21 at 07:12 AM.
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Old 06-27-21, 07:39 AM
  #9  
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At some intersections, if cars begin to collect behind me I move over to the crosswalk to let them go ahead of me. Crosswalks can have their own safety issues for pedestrians and cyclists.

I like posts like this one because they allow others to analyse different situations and relate them to their own cycling situations, and that makes everyone safer.
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Old 06-27-21, 09:10 AM
  #10  
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
Anything that helps move cars trough an intersection is a plus.


We have a lot of intersections like that, and people don't honk at the drivers who are going straight. Why would anyone honk at another driver who refused to go through a red light?
I'm not going to swear that this is the case in the OP's instance, but in the similar instance that I experienced somewhere near me, there were two turn arrows, one for each right turn lane that were green. However the marking on the pavement showed the lane as being for both straight and turning traffic.

So what does a vehicle do that took that lane wanting to go straight as the lane markings indicate is allowed?
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Old 06-27-21, 09:16 AM
  #11  
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Originally Posted by Iride01 View Post
I'm not going to swear that this is the case in the OP's instance, but in the similar instance that I experienced somewhere near me, there were two turn arrows, one for each right turn lane that were green. However the marking on the pavement showed the lane as being for both straight and turning traffic.

So what does a vehicle do that took that lane wanting to go straight as the lane markings indicate is allowed?
It is illegal for a vehicle to go straight through an intersection on a green right arrow. End of story.
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Old 06-27-21, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
It is illegal for a vehicle to go straight through an intersection on a green right arrow. End of story.
Tell that to the people behind honking wanting to turn right on the green arrow. They couldn't see the markings on the ground since the car in front of them was covering them up.
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Old 06-27-21, 09:43 AM
  #13  
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Originally Posted by Iride01 View Post
Tell that to the people behind honking wanting to turn right on the green arrow. They couldn't see the markings on the ground since the car in front of them was covering them up.
You ignore the people honking -- they will see the lane markings soon enough. And, the next time they drive through the intersection, they will already know about the markings.
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Old 06-29-21, 02:57 PM
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Back in the days when I was driving around in Houston, I was stopped at a red light and went through it to the next red light a dozen yards or so and stopped underneath the overpass at the next red light, so the dude behind me could turn right. No one was coming (obviously), and I'm a ******* nice guy. Unfortunately, I didn't see the Harris county patrol car. Not only was I pulled over and ticketed, I was held for over 40 minutes while I took a couple of drunk tests.

"I just ran it so the dude could turn right."
"Is he going to pay your ticket? How much have you had to drink?"

Later, when I left the courtroom, I found that my car had been towed. Good times.
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