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At what point does road rage become assault

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At what point does road rage become assault

Old 07-16-21, 11:55 PM
  #26  
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Is this the forum that someone said is defunct? I actually check this one more often than I do the General forum.
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Old 07-17-21, 12:10 AM
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Yes, I think it's assault. But I think sirens are assault. And really loud bass. That's bass with a hard "a." I'm not talking about a loud fish, though I wish I were. That sounds like a much more fun problem to have rather than the insanely loud sirens around here.
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Old 07-17-21, 03:40 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by LarrySellerz View Post
a&s should be removed lol. It's defunct
Sup? If it was, you managed to revive it.

At least you’re still getting the attention you need.
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Old 07-17-21, 06:30 AM
  #29  
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Misdemeanor Assault in Texas

Originally Posted by GlennR View Post
....Were you wearing a cap when this happened?
I was on a jury in Texas where a young man was charged with misdemeanor assault, and we were told that knocking a hat off the head of another person is adequate evidence of assault. (We found the defendant guilty.)

I am not a lawyer (just an old person) but I've developed the impression that "assault" involves fear and "battery" involves physical injury.

If you really want an answer you should consult a lawyer in your jurisdiction. One source is Bicycle Accident Lawyers Across the US & Canada (bikelaw.com). If you do get an answer it would be good of you to share it with us.

Last edited by flangehead; 07-17-21 at 06:34 AM. Reason: Add request.
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Old 07-17-21, 07:15 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by LarrySellerz View Post
It was more than a simple honk, never dealt with a driver that crazy before. How is threatening to kill us with his car not assault. He was holding the horn and driving uncomfortably close to us when he could have accelerated, deliberately trying to get a bunch of 50 riders to get single file. He decided to drive next to us for a full minute blaring his horn, after he passed there was gaps all over the group so many of us must have slowed down and pulled over which is dangerous in a fast tight group. If I had my bike lock with me and was in a crazier mood it could have gotten real bad, we were freaked out.
Don't know where you live, but a pack of 50 riders double paceline is generally not lawful here. I often see riders 3 and 4 up coming the other direction putting me into the gutter. Sorry, no sympathy.

I have had dozens of more serious incidents with motorists. You are overreacting.
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Old 07-17-21, 08:19 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by LarrySellerz View Post
It was more than a simple honk, never dealt with a driver that crazy before. How is threatening to kill us with his car not assault. He was holding the horn and driving uncomfortably close to us when he could have accelerated, deliberately trying to get a bunch of 50 riders to get single file. He decided to drive next to us for a full minute blaring his horn, after he passed there was gaps all over the group so many of us must have slowed down and pulled over which is dangerous in a fast tight group. If I had my bike lock with me and was in a crazier mood it could have gotten real bad, we were freaked out.
Why didn't you single file? Isn't this group experienced?
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Old 07-17-21, 08:51 AM
  #32  
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There is no such thing as having 50 riders riding two abreast, much less single file. I've seen very large group-rides around here, especially on holidays and they take up virtually the entire road. I would love to see a video of this group.

You have to ask yourself a question, when driving have you ever got impatient with another motorist that was driving slowly or pedestrians taking their sweet time crossing the road....I think a lot of cyclists have selective memory loss with these type of encounters while driving their car.
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Old 07-17-21, 09:59 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by LarrySellerz View Post
If I had my bike lock with me and was in a crazier mood it could have gotten real bad, we were freaked out.
I quit riding with a group like yours!

I'm in the rear of like 7. A car approaches I yell car back. Nadda, no reaction from leader. several calls of "car back" was ignored. I speed up to the front. And yell in the guys ear. "CAR BACK", to which I get a shrug for a reaction.

Some riders are just jerks. Sometimes they are jerks with bicycle locks. The part that scares me the most. These people (jerks) also drive cars.

Never in my life was my ride so much more important than anyone else that I felt the need to impede traffic.

In my opinion if you've a group of 50, you need to be in pre-planned coordination with law enforcement and some form of traffic control.
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Old 07-17-21, 10:22 AM
  #34  
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On my ride today, I was riding in the bike lane coming up to a traffic light planning to turn right, and there was a long line of vehicles stopped. A Ford F250 was planning on turning right and as he started to move, he rolled into the bike lane and started to squeeze me out. I slammed my hand on the side of the truck and yelled to grabbed his attention and he stopped. I continued on my way turning right, he made the turn going on his merry way and gave me proper space as I was again, in the bike lane, no harm and no foul, no assault and no battery .
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Old 07-17-21, 10:42 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by GlennR View Post
https://www.nycbar.org/get-legal-hel...dents/assault/

"Assault occurs when one person intentionally causes another person to believe that he is in imminent danger of being the victim of harmful or offensive contact, in other words, the person must fear that he will be the victim of a battery. But no physical contact actually occurs."

https://www.nycbar.org/get-legal-hel...dents/battery/

"Battery is intentional, harmful contact by one person against another. Common batteries include beating with the hands, tripping, pushing, as well as more serious actions like stabbing, shooting or otherwise maiming a person with a dangerous instrument. Many, if not all, batteries can involve criminal, as well as civil liability."

It's best to avoid road rage since the cyclist always lose when it comes to a car.

BTW... Larry, another great topic. Were you wearing a cap when this happened?
New York has the common law definition of assault, which does incorporate threatening.

California defines assault differently, and I'm certain honking wouldn't fit the definition:

“An assault is an unlawful attempt, coupled with a present ability, to commit a violent injury on the person of another.”
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Old 07-17-21, 10:53 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by LarrySellerz View Post
It was more than a simple honk, never dealt with a driver that crazy before. How is threatening to kill us with his car not assault. He was holding the horn and driving uncomfortably close to us when he could have accelerated, deliberately trying to get a bunch of 50 riders to get single file. He decided to drive next to us for a full minute blaring his horn, after he passed there was gaps all over the group so many of us must have slowed down and pulled over which is dangerous in a fast tight group. If I had my bike lock with me and was in a crazier mood it could have gotten real bad, we were freaked out.
50 cyclists group riding fast on a public road in a manner where it would be dangerous to slow down or pull over due to traffic conditions at best sounds like 50 cyclists riding like jackasses.
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Old 07-17-21, 10:54 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by GhostRider62 View Post
Don't know where you live, but a pack of 50 riders double paceline is generally not lawful here. I often see riders 3 and 4 up coming the other direction putting me into the gutter. Sorry, no sympathy.

I have had dozens of more serious incidents with motorists. You are overreacting.
I live in the bay area and there are rides of over 100 people multiple times a week, none coordinated with law enforcement. im in a mecca.
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Old 07-17-21, 10:55 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by LarrySellerz View Post
I'm really surprised that you guys harp on me for not wearing a helmet but think a car threatening a group ride isn't assault. the guy is a menace. Getting honked at solo is different than a guy acting super aggressively towards a group and causing us to suddenly change speed and position. Very dangerous.

You're in California. California requires that he actually try to injure you before it can be called an assault.

I think what you got there is disturbing the peace, punishable by up to 90 days in jail. "Any person who maliciously and willfully disturbs another person by loud and unreasonable noise."
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Old 07-17-21, 11:02 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
50 cyclists group riding fast on a public road in a manner where it would be dangerous to slow down or pull over due to traffic conditions at best sounds like 50 cyclists riding like jackasses.
You can't slow down or change directions in the middle of a pack, that's rule number one. If we tried to stop and pull over as a group we would have crashed out. We try not to blow stop signs but **** happens on the fast days, its part of the sport, and its part of the reason some cars hate us. But that's no excuse for what he did.
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Old 07-17-21, 12:00 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by LarrySellerz View Post
You can't slow down or change directions in the middle of a pack, that's rule number one. If we tried to stop and pull over as a group we would have crashed out.
These very large group rides cause riders to ride in a way that is against state law, at least in the ones I've observed. I've read a lot of cycling laws, including from your state of California and I've noticed that they all, for the most part, are very similar. Like I said above, I've also seen these large group rides around here in Florida and it's somewhat common to see them blow thru stop signs and take up the entire roadway. It's simply against the law.

See below, your state laws which are very similar to my laws here in Florida and most other states.


Originally Posted by LarrySellerz View Post
We try not to blow stop signs but **** happens on the fast days, its part of the sport, and its part of the reason some cars hate us. But that's no excuse for what he did.
This is the problem with Regular Joes attempting to be like the professionals. When riding a bike your first responsibility is to ride IAW the law. There is NO sport to that. I never look at my riding as sport when out on the roads. It's life and death, literally.


I'm not sure what the law is about a guy blowing his horn for 1 full minute, but it is definitely wrong to blow thru stop signs. People die doing that. Horns are just annoying.

https://www.walkuplawoffice.com/cas-...ike-laws-2018/



Various Excerpts:

VC 21200, USE OF A BICYCLE

Under California law, every person who rides a bike on a street or highway has the same rights and responsibility as someone operating a motor vehicle. This means he or she must obey all traffic signals, ride to the right (not facing traffic), obey posted speed limits and stop signs, and more. Further, motorists and bicyclists have an obligation to share the road, and each party owes a duty of care to the other.


VC 21208, USING A BICYCLE LANE

The Bay Area has taken a progressive approach to install bike lanes throughout the city and along major area roadways. Knowing how to use these lanes is essential. Under California law, anyone who travels slower than the speed of normal traffic must use a bicycle lane if one exists, unless the following conditions apply:
  • A bicyclist wants to overtake another bicycle or pedestrian traveling within the bike lane.
  • A bicyclist wants to prepare to make a left turn at an intersection or into a driveway.
  • To avoid road debris or another hazardous condition that exists within the bike lane.
If a bicyclist must leave a bike lane, he or she must wait until it is safe to do so and must give an appropriate hand signal to vehicles around to adequately warn of deviation from the lane.


VC 22111, Using Hand Signals

California law sets certain requirements to standardize the use of hand signals. Use the following indications whenever possible:
  • A bicyclist should indicate an intention to turn left by extending that hand horizontally to the side of the bicycle.
  • To indicate an intention to turn right, a bicyclist should use the right hand to extend horizontally to the right side of the bicycle.
  • A bicyclist should indicate a sudden decrease in speed by extending the left hand down next to the bicycle.
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Old 07-17-21, 12:20 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by LarrySellerz View Post
I'm really surprised that you guys harp on me for not wearing a helmet but think a car threatening a group ride isn't assault. the guy is a menace. Getting honked at solo is different than a guy acting super aggressively towards a group and causing us to suddenly change speed and position. Very dangerous.
A helmet could potentially protect your head in a crash, a horn is just annoying. If they do more than honk and get physical like most of us have said that is assault but just honking is not unless they have a really loud horn and are directing it specifically in your ears with intent to do harm.

You should really use a dictionary it could help you in these situations.
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Old 07-17-21, 12:21 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by LarrySellerz View Post
I live in the bay area and there are rides of over 100 people multiple times a week, none coordinated with law enforcement. im in a mecca.
I never said law enforcement coordination was necessary, did I?

The code here allows 2 abreast until a motorist arrives, then you have to ride single file but only as far right as is safe. I was implying that the group was probably 3-4 abreast, which is totally uncool with 50 riders and probably why the motor vehicle laid on the horn and one of the reasons motorists hate us, riders like you.
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Old 07-17-21, 12:51 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by LarrySellerz View Post
Today on the group ride an insane driver laid on the horn for a full minute, terrifying the group. I called the police hours later to ask if this is something they care about and the cop said yes, and that i should have called 911 so they could get a deputy out there incase he does this to others. Would you consider this to be assault. like I was worried someone would get spooked and crash
A full minute? Take a stop watch and really experience 1 full minute in silence. Someone held their horn down for that long? Come on.

Your threads are fun.
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Old 07-17-21, 01:27 PM
  #44  
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Yes a full minute, we were at least 50 riders and were coming up to a turn/stopsign, he was stuck behind us. He deliberately passed slowly so he could blare each and every one of us and totally own the libs, after the turn he could have accelerated away but he kept it up for another 15 seconds at least. Really interfered with us more than just honking, as the pack was broken apart after he passed, we normally stick to each others wheels because its a drop ride. We don't hog the road like some of the social club rides ive seen around here, cars only get stuck behind us on a couple roads. A guy honking his horn is normal, this guy was crazy or on drugs

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Old 07-17-21, 01:49 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by work4bike View Post


This is the problem with Regular Joes attempting to be like the professionals. When riding a bike your first responsibility is to ride IAW the law. There is NO sport to that. I never look at my riding as sport when out on the roads. It's life and death, literally.


:
We aren't trying to be professionals (though we do have a former olympian on the ride) we are just trying to race our bikes man. We only pull that on the fast days. Also check this out its radical

these guys are way crazier than us, we try to be on our best behavior and stop at stop signs M/W/F

Last edited by LarrySellerz; 07-17-21 at 01:53 PM.
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Old 07-17-21, 03:30 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by LarrySellerz View Post
Yes a full minute, we were at least 50 riders and were coming up to a turn/stopsign, he was stuck behind us. He deliberately passed slowly so he could blare each and every one of us and totally own the libs, after the turn he could have accelerated away but he kept it up for another 15 seconds at least. Really interfered with us more than just honking, as the pack was broken apart after he passed, we normally stick to each others wheels because its a drop ride. We don't hog the road like some of the social club rides ive seen around here, cars only get stuck behind us on a couple roads. A guy honking his horn is normal, this guy was crazy or on drugs
You got what you deserved.
Wannabe racers riding unsupported on public roads
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Old 07-17-21, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by LarrySellerz View Post
You can't slow down or change directions in the middle of a pack, that's rule number one. If we tried to stop and pull over as a group we would have crashed out. We try not to blow stop signs but **** happens on the fast days, its part of the sport, and its part of the reason some cars hate us. But that's no excuse for what he did.
Now, it is clear.
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Old 07-17-21, 06:43 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by LarrySellerz View Post
You can't slow down or change directions in the middle of a pack, that's rule number one. If we tried to stop and pull over as a group we would have crashed out. We try not to blow stop signs but **** happens on the fast days, its part of the sport, and its part of the reason some cars hate us. But that's no excuse for what he did.
Do you expect motorists to call the cops after you blow a stop sign?
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Old 07-17-21, 06:56 PM
  #49  
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Blowing stop signs is not as dangerous as threatening a peloton. They aren't comparable. We are less disruptive to traffic than many club rides, the club rides clog the road and then the cars take it out on the drop ride. Not the other way around.

also y'all claiming that you can't race on public roads are being sticks in the mud and causing barriers of entry to the sport (racing.)

Last edited by LarrySellerz; 07-17-21 at 08:14 PM.
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Old 07-17-21, 07:07 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by LarrySellerz View Post
Blowing stop signs is not as dangerous as threatening a peloton. They aren't comparable. We are less disruptive to traffic than many club rides, the club rides clog the road and then the cars take it out on the drop ride. Not the other way around.

also y'all claiming that you can't race on public roads are being sticks in the mud and causing barriers in entry to the sport (racing.)
Just sayin, if you're going to be riding that way, maybe you need to develop a thicker skin.
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