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Carry a Camera Folks!

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Carry a Camera Folks!

Old 09-24-21, 12:03 PM
  #26  
Daniel4
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Originally Posted by rumrunn6 View Post
...

at the 50 sec mark Wifey beeps her horn, drives by & shouts that the door is open. I was almost home haha...
Do you have an external microphone? Built-in microphones barely capture bike bells, horns and conversations: sounds that help if an investigation is required.
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Old 09-24-21, 12:44 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by Daniel4 View Post
Do you have an external microphone? Built-in microphones barely capture bike bells, horns and conversations: sounds that help if an investigation is required.
built in
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Old 09-24-21, 02:21 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by ExPatTyke View Post
Registered Keeper - the person who the ownership papers (document V5 or logbook in the UK) are registered to.
This is part of one thing that drives me nuts about riding/driving in the UK (I'm an Aussie living in London).

The registered keeper of the vehicle is not automatically criminally responsible for what happens. The driver of the vehicle at the time of an incident needs to be identified and plenty of folks have gotten away with the game of "I don't remember who was driving at the time" to avoid prosecution. You may still get the owner/insurer of a car to pay out for your damages in an accident that wasn't your fault, but the police can't necessarily charge them with any driving offences.

In Australia the 'owner' of the vehicle (Registered Keeper) is deemed to be at the wheel unless they can demonstrate otherwise. Stops a lot of BS.

Personally I'd like to see the Police and prosecutors in the UK grow some balls and present an interesting new option to someone playing the 'who was driving' game. Option 1 - stop dicking us about and admit to driving or Option 2 - we'll charge you with being an accessory to a crime. Basically you were driving or you know who was and are covering for them, so either way there is no incentive to lie.
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Old 09-24-21, 04:03 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by JonnyHK View Post
This is part of one thing that drives me nuts about riding/driving in the UK (I'm an Aussie living in London).

The registered keeper of the vehicle is not automatically criminally responsible for what happens. The driver of the vehicle at the time of an incident needs to be identified and plenty of folks have gotten away with the game of "I don't remember who was driving at the time" to avoid prosecution. You may still get the owner/insurer of a car to pay out for your damages in an accident that wasn't your fault, but the police can't necessarily charge them with any driving offences.

In Australia the 'owner' of the vehicle (Registered Keeper) is deemed to be at the wheel unless they can demonstrate otherwise. Stops a lot of BS.

Personally I'd like to see the Police and prosecutors in the UK grow some balls and present an interesting new option to someone playing the 'who was driving' game. Option 1 - stop dicking us about and admit to driving or Option 2 - we'll charge you with being an accessory to a crime. Basically you were driving or you know who was and are covering for them, so either way there is no incentive to lie.
In the UK if the registered owner doesn't say who was driving at the time of the incident, they are still convicted of Failure to Identify/Nominate. It's a £660 fine plus court fees, which is pretty steep. It's a heck of a lot better than any of the United States, because the 5th Amendment gets in the way. The biggest obstacle I encounter when getting the police to cite unlawful motorists is identifying them. Even if the act is caught on camera, the police won't be able to issue a citation unless the driver can be identified. Now, if the driver's face is clearly captured and/or there is physical contact, issuing a citation is easy. However, let's say I get buzzed (but not physically touched) by a driver in violation of the safe passing law and can't get their face on camera. I can say that a "white guy approximately age 40 with a baseball cap" buzzed me, but if the cops can't get the registered owner to admit it, I'm up the creek without a paddle.
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Old 09-25-21, 07:03 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by JW Fas View Post
In the UK if the registered owner doesn't say who was driving at the time of the incident, they are still convicted of Failure to Identify/Nominate. It's a £660 fine plus court fees, which is pretty steep. It's a heck of a lot better than any of the United States, because the 5th Amendment gets in the way. The biggest obstacle I encounter when getting the police to cite unlawful motorists is identifying them. Even if the act is caught on camera, the police won't be able to issue a citation unless the driver can be identified. Now, if the driver's face is clearly captured and/or there is physical contact, issuing a citation is easy. However, let's say I get buzzed (but not physically touched) by a driver in violation of the safe passing law and can't get their face on camera. I can say that a "white guy approximately age 40 with a baseball cap" buzzed me, but if the cops can't get the registered owner to admit it, I'm up the creek without a paddle.
Darn that Fifth Amendment, anyhow.

Who needs a positive identification when there is a score to settle? The rant and/or edited video from an A&S zealot or any would-be McGruff with a camera and a grudge should be good enough, eh?
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Old 09-25-21, 07:58 AM
  #31  
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Very irresponsible behavior from that car guy. Sue the car owner!
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Old 09-27-21, 09:06 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by JW Fas View Post
In the UK if the registered owner doesn't say who was driving at the time of the incident, they are still convicted of Failure to Identify/Nominate. It's a £660 fine plus court fees, which is pretty steep. It's a heck of a lot better than any of the United States, because the 5th Amendment gets in the way. The biggest obstacle I encounter when getting the police to cite unlawful motorists is identifying them. Even if the act is caught on camera, the police won't be able to issue a citation unless the driver can be identified. Now, if the driver's face is clearly captured and/or there is physical contact, issuing a citation is easy. However, let's say I get buzzed (but not physically touched) by a driver in violation of the safe passing law and can't get their face on camera. I can say that a "white guy approximately age 40 with a baseball cap" buzzed me, but if the cops can't get the registered owner to admit it, I'm up the creek without a paddle.

But only if the police follow it up, which sadly is not likely in the experience of a number of my friends.

Unless it is a very serious incident (injury, high value) or it is an absolute slam dunk in terms of evidence then the police just don't want to know.
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Old 09-27-21, 09:23 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by mcours2006 View Post
Glad OP is all right.
Originally Posted by colleran View Post
Glad you're safe!
Thank you both.

Originally Posted by Daniel4 View Post
Do you have an external microphone? Built-in microphones barely capture bike bells, horns and conversations: sounds that help if an investigation is required.
Built in mic on my camera. Audio quality's rubbish, which is probably a good thing as it filters out a lot of the sweary moments.

Originally Posted by JonnyHK View Post
This is part of one thing that drives me nuts about riding/driving in the UK (I'm an Aussie living in London).
The registered keeper of the vehicle is not automatically criminally responsible for what happens. The driver of the vehicle at the time of an incident needs to be identified and plenty of folks have gotten away with the game of "I don't remember who was driving at the time" to avoid prosecution. You may still get the owner/insurer of a car to pay out for your damages in an accident that wasn't your fault, but the police can't necessarily charge them with any driving offences.
In Australia the 'owner' of the vehicle (Registered Keeper) is deemed to be at the wheel unless they can demonstrate otherwise. Stops a lot of BS.
Personally I'd like to see the Police and prosecutors in the UK grow some balls and present an interesting new option to someone playing the 'who was driving' game. Option 1 - stop dicking us about and admit to driving or Option 2 - we'll charge you with being an accessory to a crime. Basically you were driving or you know who was and are covering for them, so either way there is no incentive to lie.
When the Police in the UK issue an NIP (Notice of Intended Prosecution) it goes initially to the address registered for the RK, and goes with a form called a Section 172, which compels identification of the driver at the time of the offence. Very often, the V5 holder and the user of the vehicle are not the same, due to the number of vehicles which are leased rather than owned nowadays. It's typical for the NIP in this case to be returned by the V5 holder with details of the user. Most lease companies are now geared up to do this automatically. When this happens the NIP is then reissued to the appropriate address.
This actually works in the favour of the Police - the S172 section of the NIP gets back to them very quickly, and this effectively pauses the 14 day period they have to issue the NIP.
The NIP with the S172 eventually gets to the appropriate person, and at that stage they have three options - return the S172 naming the driver, return the S172 stating they don't know who was driving, or disregard it. Failing to return a S172, or returning it and failing to name the driver is an offence in itself, which gets a guaranteed 6 points and fine of between £500 and £1000.

Originally Posted by matton View Post
Very irresponsible behavior from that car guy. Sue the car owner!
Absolutely - once the Police / CPS action is complete I'll be going after them. The amount won't be much, but the increase in renewal of their motor insurance due to being involved in an accident and leaving the scene will probably cost them as much as the fine.
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Old 09-27-21, 03:11 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by ExPatTyke View Post
IF the Police in the UK issue an NIP (Notice of Intended Prosecution)
Changed it to reflect the experience of a couple of my friends.

I'm not going to challenge you on the law, but in reality the police don't seem to want to chase a lot of these things so it fails at the first hurdle, hence the 'if'.
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Old 09-28-21, 10:38 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by homeless in ca. View Post
Cameras are very useful for reprimanding bad drivers before their behaviour leads to a deadly collision.
had an incident last week where a full size SUV (Chevy Tahoe) buzzed the line of cyclists, passing ~1ft out, horn blaring and the passenger flipping us off as they passed. The rider beside me got the tag# and my Cycliq rear camera caught the incident. I passed the details and footage to the local sheriffs dept who ID’d the driver from the tag# and paid him a visit. 85 year old guy who remembered the incident, and was “agitated” that we weren’t riding single file, so he registered his displeasure by buzzing us. The deputy didn’t charge him, but made him aware of the 4ft passing distance mandated by NC law. Will it do any good? Who knows. My only consolation is that, at his age, the old c**t will be dead soon enough 👍
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Old 09-29-21, 06:58 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by Litespud View Post
had an incident last week where a full size SUV (Chevy Tahoe) buzzed the line of cyclists, passing ~1ft out, horn blaring and the passenger flipping us off as they passed. The rider beside me got the tag# and my Cycliq rear camera caught the incident. I passed the details and footage to the local sheriffs dept who ID’d the driver from the tag# and paid him a visit. 85 year old guy who remembered the incident, and was “agitated” that we weren’t riding single file, so he registered his displeasure by buzzing us. The deputy didn’t charge him, but made him aware of the 4ft passing distance mandated by NC law. Will it do any good? Who knows. My only consolation is that, at his age, the old c**t will be dead soon enough 👍
Will it do any good? Nah. Not if there were no charges. He probably figures next time he'll probably not be unlucky enough that the cyclist(s) will have a camera or the presence of mind to take down his plate number, so he'll be fine. Might even make him even more pissed off at cyclists.
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Old 09-29-21, 01:25 PM
  #37  
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gre, but I would post the video on local facebook groups and publicize the fact that the deputy did not charge the homicidal maniac with reckless endangerment.
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Old 09-30-21, 03:15 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by JonnyHK View Post
Changed it to reflect the experience of a couple of my friendsfriend
I'm not going to challenge you on the law, but in reality the police don't seem to want to chase a lot of these things so it fails at the first hurdle, hence the 'if'.
Yes, reporting can be a bit of a lottery depending on the Force area. I'm lucky that most of mine are in the Avon & Somerset Constabulary, who are probably second only to the Met in terms of being proactive - I've put in over 100 videos this year and only 4 have resulted in no action.
Other Police Forces are much worse, and I see constant complaints about certain ones.
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Old 09-30-21, 07:59 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by Kat12 View Post
Will it do any good? Nah. Not if there were no charges. He probably figures next time he'll probably not be unlucky enough that the cyclist(s) will have a camera or the presence of mind to take down his plate number, so he'll be fine. Might even make him even more pissed off at cyclists.
Maybe - to my mind the biggest problem around here is that many/most drivers don't know that (i) they're required by law to give cyclists 4 ft clearance, and (ii) they're allowed to cross the double-yellow to pass if it can be done safely. So, the result is that cars trail us but not passing, the drivers getting more frustrated and pissed-off until they do something rash or impulsive. There's plenty of scope for cars and bikes to amicably share these very lightly-trafficked roads if everyone knew the rules. So, one more driver was educated, which is better than nothing, I suppose - at this rate, we should have a well-educated driving populace by ~2300. I currently only have a rear camera, which is of limited used in NC because cars generally don't have front plates. I should probably buy a front camera to go with it, but I really don't want to surrender to a "roads are a battlefield" mentality every time I go out on the bike. There's common sense and vigilance, sure, but I just want to enjoy my time on the bike, not head out kitted up for combat. There's a happy medium somewhere, I have yet to find it.
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Old 10-01-21, 07:16 AM
  #40  
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So what kind of cameras do folks use? Besides the obvious Go Pro option.

Also don't think too highly of driver training.

I've recently witnessed two teens go though the whole process. They had a grand total of one question about cyclist. The "Road Test" these days is a lap around a parking lot, a straight-in park, and congrats.
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Old 10-01-21, 09:18 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by polyneux View Post
So what kind of cameras do folks use? Besides the obvious Go Pro option.

Also don't think too highly of driver training.

I've recently witnessed two teens go though the whole process. They had a grand total of one question about cyclist. The "Road Test" these days is a lap around a parking lot, a straight-in park, and congrats.
Cycliq cameras are purpose-built bike cameras - decent battery life (4-5h), automatic video looping, built-in lights, the ability to "lock" footage out of the loop, do you can preserve footage of an incident, either manually or automatically of the camera tilts more than a curtain angle for more than ~15 sec. If you crash or are hit, the camera will automatically preserve the previous 15 min and will keep filming the succeeding 15 min, then "lock" the footage. They're not cheap (the rear cam with built-in red LED flasher is ~$220. The front cam is larger and incorporates a decent lamp. The image quality is excellent.

When I was teaching my kids to drive, I took each one out on the well-travelled cycling routes where we would be guaranteed to encounter a few groups. They know to slow down, pass the group at a deliberate pace with loads of clearance and not to cut in too soon (they certainly didn't learn any of this stuff in Driver's Ed). My girls have been known to give their driving friends a bollocking if they pass cyclists too close. And they can all drive stick. I'm a proud papa
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Old 10-02-21, 07:28 AM
  #42  
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I’m really disappointed by the cameras that are available. They are all too bulky or boxy. Why can’t someone make a camera that is low profile (long and skinny), that snaps to a bike with magnets and begins recording when it is snapped into a base? It also needs to loop automatically. Then when you commute you can just grab your cameras and walk away after locking up your bike.

The other reason I do not use one is because I’d have far too many things hanging off my handlebars and seat post. I already use a Garmin Varia bike radar to know when cars are coming up behind me and a front light, and adding a camera is just another thing to have to have to find a place to attach. I guess I could replace my front light, but I bought a nice one that works well and would hate to get rid of it. Helmet mounted cameras only work if you are wearing a helmet, and I use a Hövding. Garmin exited the bike camera business, so that only leaves boxy cameras like the GoPro.

If there are any manufacturers reading this, PLEASE innovate in this space and come out with something better!
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Old 10-02-21, 08:18 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by Alligator View Post
I’m really disappointed by the cameras that are available. They are all too bulky or boxy. Why can’t someone make a camera that is low profile (long and skinny), that snaps to a bike with magnets and begins recording when it is snapped into a base? It also needs to loop automatically. Then when you commute you can just grab your cameras and walk away after locking up your bike.

The other reason I do not use one is because I’d have far too many things hanging off my handlebars and seat post. I already use a Garmin Varia bike radar to know when cars are coming up behind me and a front light, and adding a camera is just another thing to have to have to find a place to attach. I guess I could replace my front light, but I bought a nice one that works well and would hate to get rid of it. Helmet mounted cameras only work if you are wearing a helmet, and I use a Hövding. Garmin exited the bike camera business, so that only leaves boxy cameras like the GoPro.

If there are any manufacturers reading this, PLEASE innovate in this space and come out with something better!
The original Garmin VIRB worked beautifully on a bike, but they moved to the same box design as everyone else before they exited the market. I'm half thinking of grabbing another VIRB since some old stock still available and I have several mounts for it. The only other that I know of that has that same form factor is the Drift Innovation Ghost series of cameras. The Drift Ghost XL in particular looks good for cycling due to its 9 hour battery life.
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Old 10-02-21, 01:29 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by RGMN View Post
The original Garmin VIRB worked beautifully on a bike
I agree. I have an old Virb and just put it back on my bike to try it again. Unfortunately, it uses a mini-USB connector and only records in 1080. I'd love to have something like that, about half the size, and record in 4k at 60 fps. But I guess having a camera is better than nothing and I should start using it again.
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Old 10-03-21, 08:38 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by Daniel4 View Post
Cameras on the bike would help this investigation.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toron...iana-1.6187016
Update: Police say he died of a heart attack.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toron...list-1.6198259
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Old 10-04-21, 10:04 AM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by Daniel4 View Post
Update: Police say he died of a heart attack.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toron...list-1.6198259
Thanks for the update. The article was a nice tribute to the cyclist.
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Old 10-05-21, 12:23 AM
  #47  
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The o.p. might have made a stronger case for their proselytizing by telling us that the police indeed went after the miscreant that buzzed him and crushed their car while he watched. Instead we get "they will get around to it in a few days". I don't know, if that is all they thought of my near death experience, I would seriously wonder what my tax dollars are good for AND the camera as well. No good as a deterrent OR as incentive for action on the part of LEO. Or is it the 99 other videos they have asked police to investigate ... or was that another poster. Hard to tell. Zealots are all alike. No proportionality. No accountability or much reason. TL;DR: save your money, put the cash you were going to spend on a GoPro in an interest bearing savings account. In 125 years you will be able to buy a full carbon* racebike.

*or whatever they will be making bikes out of in 2146.
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Old 10-05-21, 06:18 PM
  #48  
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I use a waterproof camera on a selfie stick. This photo shows it mounted on a CitiBike in New York, but I do the same thing on my personal bikes. They advantage here is I only need one camera, it can be raised overhead and aimed over my shoulder. And it can rotate 360°.
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Old 10-09-21, 07:14 PM
  #49  
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Man is there dashcams for bikes or do you have to mount a gopro or something?
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Old 10-09-21, 08:08 PM
  #50  
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It is always better to carry a camera and i want thanks Daniel4 for updating the article
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