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6 Houston area cyclists injured by pranking truck driver

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6 Houston area cyclists injured by pranking truck driver

Old 11-14-21, 04:03 PM
  #176  
Kat12
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Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
I don't attribute malice to close passes. Of course, it is possible that the kid above tried to ruffle feathers by passing closely.

But, I've had numerous people yell something unintelligible at me. In one case a yell, and tossing a bag of garbage about 10 feet from me.
You think people do it to be friendly and make you feel safe, or...?

I mean, yeah, there are the "close passes" by idiots who simply don't understand the concept of a safe passing distance, but the ones where they intentionally try to intimidate you? I'm not sure what else to attribute it to but malice?
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Old 11-14-21, 04:11 PM
  #177  
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Originally Posted by Bald Paul View Post
It almost seems like Post #39 in this mess wasn't that far off after all.
Hmmmm... let me think...

Originally Posted by Bald Paul View Post
It just seems to be getting worse. It sounds like the DA can do very little, since it's a 'local jurisdiction' thing.
Let's see... 6 felony counts doesn't exactly sound like doing nothing. Nope, post 39 was 180 degrees off.
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Old 11-14-21, 04:46 PM
  #178  
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Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
I don't attribute malice to close passes. Of course, it is possible that the kid above tried to ruffle feathers by passing closely.

But, I've had numerous people yell something unintelligible at me. In one case a yell, and tossing a bag of garbage about 10 feet from me.

I'm talking about obviously intentional, gunning the engine and rolling coal close passes, as in they went well out of their way to swerve at me on the shoulder. I definitely attributed malice. I'm not talking about inadvertent close passes, those are pretty much non-events I don't remember 5 minutes later unless it's really, really close.

BTW, that's not just possible, it's what the kid is charged with. The allegation is he assaulted them with a deadly weapon by close passing (threat of imminent bodily harm, using a deadly weapon) and inadvertently hitting them (causing serious bodily injury).

Last edited by livedarklions; 11-14-21 at 04:58 PM.
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Old 11-14-21, 04:48 PM
  #179  
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Originally Posted by DangerousDanR View Post
Hmmmm... let me think...



Let's see... 6 felony counts doesn't exactly sound like doing nothing. Nope, post 39 was 180 degrees off.
Post 39 was about the cops at the scene and they apparently really were trying to do nothing. These indictments are occurring in spite of that.
The DA and the police chief both said the cops at the scene screwed up.
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Old 11-14-21, 09:03 PM
  #180  
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Originally Posted by Kat12 View Post
You think people do it to be friendly and make you feel safe, or...?

I mean, yeah, there are the "close passes" by idiots who simply don't understand the concept of a safe passing distance, but the ones where they intentionally try to intimidate you? I'm not sure what else to attribute it to but malice?

I think Clifford and I were really talking about different kinds of passes. I probably should have specified the swerving, which is definitely the sign that this is intentional.

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Old 11-16-21, 05:07 PM
  #181  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
I think Clifford and I were really talking about different kinds of passes. I probably should have specified the swerving, which is definitely the sign that this is intentional.

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I thought your meaning was pretty clear.
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Old 11-17-21, 11:09 AM
  #182  
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Originally Posted by Kat12 View Post
I thought your meaning was pretty clear.

I give CliffordK the benefit of the doubt--if he thought I meant something else, I think I need to clarify.
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Old 11-17-21, 11:34 AM
  #183  
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I don't think I've noticed anybody swerve towards me while riding. There have been a few that passed at high speeds just inches away which I've attributed to simply ignoring me.

However, I listen and look back, but don't use a mirror so I wouldn't notice fine details of lane positioning. And, when a shoulder or bike lane is available, I am in it, at least when around other vehicles.

I have had at least one vehicle cross the fog line by a significant amount while passing, but that is rare.

I don't know about the concept of "coal". I'm sure some people have figured it out (as is likely with the kid above). However, there may also be cases when a vehicle will slow down to pass (which is a good thing), then slam the pedal to the metal once past (causing some diesel vehicles to smoke).

Some of the more annoying passes are when a vehicle decides to pass another vehicle coming towards me.

Or, when I was at Crater Lake, I was doing fairly high speed descents. No shoulders and a drop off to my right. Cars would choose to lane split and pass other bicycles climbing the hill I was descending. They didn't seem to care that I was "taking the lane", or that I had no place to go.
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Old 11-17-21, 01:23 PM
  #184  
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Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
I don't think I've noticed anybody swerve towards me while riding. There have been a few that passed at high speeds just inches away which I've attributed to simply ignoring me.

However, I listen and look back, but don't use a mirror so I wouldn't notice fine details of lane positioning. And, when a shoulder or bike lane is available, I am in it, at least when around other vehicles.

I have had at least one vehicle cross the fog line by a significant amount while passing, but that is rare.

I don't know about the concept of "coal". I'm sure some people have figured it out (as is likely with the kid above). However, there may also be cases when a vehicle will slow down to pass (which is a good thing), then slam the pedal to the metal once past (causing some diesel vehicles to smoke).

Some of the more annoying passes are when a vehicle decides to pass another vehicle coming towards me.

Or, when I was at Crater Lake, I was doing fairly high speed descents. No shoulders and a drop off to my right. Cars would choose to lane split and pass other bicycles climbing the hill I was descending. They didn't seem to care that I was "taking the lane", or that I had no place to go.
I've had some trouble also with people passing from the oncoming lane--even when I don't have any shoulder. Now, when I see it happening, I grab out my metal water bottle and give them a pump fake where I pretend I'm going to hit their windshield with it.
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Old 11-17-21, 03:16 PM
  #185  
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I've seen people swerve towards me, thanks to my mirror; it doesn't happen a lot, but enough to where I keep an eye out... Most of the times when I see someone seeming to take a line towards me, I go into the lane, that usually freaks them out and hit the brakes.
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Old 11-18-21, 03:12 AM
  #186  
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Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
I don't think I've noticed anybody swerve towards me while riding. There have been a few that passed at high speeds just inches away which I've attributed to simply ignoring me.

However, I listen and look back, but don't use a mirror so I wouldn't notice fine details of lane positioning. And, when a shoulder or bike lane is available, I am in it, at least when around other vehicles.

I have had at least one vehicle cross the fog line by a significant amount while passing, but that is rare.

I don't know about the concept of "coal". I'm sure some people have figured it out (as is likely with the kid above). However, there may also be cases when a vehicle will slow down to pass (which is a good thing), then slam the pedal to the metal once past (causing some diesel vehicles to smoke).

Some of the more annoying passes are when a vehicle decides to pass another vehicle coming towards me.

Or, when I was at Crater Lake, I was doing fairly high speed descents. No shoulders and a drop off to my right. Cars would choose to lane split and pass other bicycles climbing the hill I was descending. They didn't seem to care that I was "taking the lane", or that I had no place to go.

The swerving is not subtle, and I don't need a mirror to know it's happened. This is the only motor vehicle suddenly operating to the right of the fog line, where I am, then going back to the left well in front of me. They are literally going out of their way to harass and terrify me. And the coal rollers are gunning the engine right before and during the pass, there's no slowing involved. You're lucky enough not to experience these, but there's no room for a benign interpretation of their motives. I know when I'm being attacked.
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Old 11-18-21, 06:48 AM
  #187  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
The swerving is not subtle, and I don't need a mirror to know it's happened. This is the only motor vehicle suddenly operating to the right of the fog line, where I am, then going back to the left well in front of me. They are literally going out of their way to harass and terrify me. And the coal rollers are gunning the engine right before and during the pass, there's no slowing involved. You're lucky enough not to experience these, but there's no room for a benign interpretation of their motives. I know when I'm being attacked.

I thought human intention was too difficult to predict? Can you really attribute malice, when distracted driving is just as valid an explanation (radios, phones, and passengers have all been shown to cause serious inattentive behaviors)?

I see people swerve over the fog line with frightening regularity, whether I'm on a bicycle or following at pace in a vehicle -- unfortunately, people just don't take paint on the road all that seriously.
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Old 11-18-21, 07:14 AM
  #188  
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Originally Posted by Bulette View Post
I thought human intention was too difficult to predict? Can you really attribute malice, when distracted driving is just as valid an explanation (radios, phones, and passengers have all been shown to cause serious inattentive behaviors)?

I see people swerve over the fog line with frightening regularity, whether I'm on a bicycle or following at pace in a vehicle -- unfortunately, people just don't take paint on the road all that seriously.

I was there, you weren't. This wasn't drifting. Nothing about it indicated it was a matter of distraction, including the obviously intentional timing of the engine gunning.

And this isn't a matter of prediction, it's inferring intent from the action, something that's done in courtrooms every day.

I see that unintended "swerving" fairly frequently. It doesn't look or sound anything like the malicious variety.

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Old 11-18-21, 07:35 AM
  #189  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
I was there, you weren't. This wasn't drifting. Nothing about it indicated it was a matter of distraction, including the obviously intentional timing of the engine gunning.
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Even from a distance, I assume the intention was to harass in this case, and the result being assault. Testimony from the cyclists will probably be plenty for any civil cases.

My doubt is aimed towards the jury, most of whom will be never-bicyclists, and the few who maybe ride a bit but never on the highways. Whatever the defense comes up with just has to cast reasonable doubt.

I think the wildcard in this case is the passenger in the truck, whom we've heard little from in this case.
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Old 11-18-21, 08:39 AM
  #190  
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Originally Posted by Bulette View Post
Even from a distance, I assume the intention was to harass in this case, and the result being assault. Testimony from the cyclists will probably be plenty for any civil cases.

My doubt is aimed towards the jury, most of whom will be never-bicyclists, and the few who maybe ride a bit but never on the highways. Whatever the defense comes up with just has to cast reasonable doubt.

I think the wildcard in this case is the passenger in the truck, whom we've heard little from in this case.
Sorry, you quoted me commenting on what happened to me, and if your remark was aimed at the OP incident, I didn't catch that.

Juries are a crap shoot, so agreed we can't know what will likely persuade them.

This is pure speculation on what will happen to this case as we have no idea what evidence and statements were gathered at the scene. There's a lot more wild cards than just the passenger's testimony.

We don't know what the defendant said at the scene and if those statements were properly recorded/transcribed. From experience handling a lot of cases, I think it's a 50-50 shot he incriminated himself while being questioned at the scene. He was never taken into custody, so Miranda rights shouldn't be an issue. But we know the cops mishandled the scene (per the DA and the Chief), so we have no idea if they even tried to question him or record what he said in some form or another. He also may have remained silent (if I was his attorney, this is what I'd hope he did).

We also don't know how many witnesses there were to the rolling coal or whether there's any kind of data recording going on in the F150 that would support that that was what he was doing.

Just to be clear, the definition of "assault" in TX includes merely threatening, so an intentional close pass with the intent to "annoy" would likely rise to the level of assault with a deadly weapon (the vehicle). Different states define assault differently, TX uses the definition that doesn't require actual physical contact. This is important because the jury could find that the assault was an intentional felony even if hitting the cyclists was not the intended result.
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Old 11-18-21, 10:05 AM
  #191  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
We also don't know how many witnesses there were to the rolling coal or whether there's any kind of data recording going on in the F150 that would support that that was what he was doing.
Usually, there are only two instances where vehicle data will be retained after the ignition is turned off. First is in the instance of a MIL (a.k.a. "Check Engine" light) where information is stored at the time of the fault, to aid in diagnosis. Second is airbag deployment, where data such as speed, steering input, brake application, etc. is stored for a period of time prior to and shortly after deployment. It usually takes a court order to access this info, but, looking at the photos, it doesn't appear that the airbags went off in the truck. Other systems (ABS, etc) may also record data, but that is up to the manufacturer, and I wasn't a Ford guy, so I cannot say one way or the other.

If this truck ECU had been modified to allow the engine to 'roll coal', there may be a data logger incorporated as part of the (illegal) modification. Should that be the case, the information could be very interesting.
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