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Six Hit in Texas

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Six Hit in Texas

Old 11-01-21, 07:48 AM
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indyfabz
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Six Hit in Texas

Cannot say for sure, but the logo on the van and trailer looks like ACA's logo. And I think their supported Southern Tier tour happens this time of year.

6 cyclists hit by car, injured while participating in annual ride from California to Florida - ABC11 Raleigh-Durham
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Old 11-01-21, 08:29 AM
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Anyone care to donate a hand trike to Governor Abbot so he can get out there on the roads of Texas and experience what it's like for cyclists there lately?
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Old 11-01-21, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Bald Paul View Post
Anyone care to donate a hand trike to Governor Abbot so he can get out there on the roads of Texas and experience what it's like for cyclists there lately?
I get it... you don't like Governor Abbot's politics. But until bicycle and pedestrian safety can be moved out of the category of partisan bickering the likelihood of meaningful improvements in bicycle and pedestrian safety are reduced.

And from the numbers I can find Texas is not the warm weather state with the highest bicycle fatality rate; that dubious honor falls to Florida which is way out of line. The most recent numbers I found listed the following as the top 10 along with their per-million fatality rates:
1) Florida 5.7
2 Louisiana 3.8
3) New Mexico 3.1
4) Arizona 3.
5) South Carolina 3.0
6) California 3.0
7) Oregon 2.8
8) North Carolina 2.6
9) Michigan 2.4
10) New York 2.4

In fact, Texas was down in the list with a per-million rate of 1.9
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Old 11-01-21, 10:46 AM
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Almost without fail, I am stunned by how poorly written these reports are.

"...when what authorities believe to be a Ford Focus struck the line of cyclists"

How damn hard is it to determine the type of car, and furthermore, why does it matter? I can't pinpoint the exact location, but the part of 787 I looked at has a 60MPH speed limit.
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Old 11-01-21, 10:54 AM
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It looks like they were hit at the exit of a blind bend. Most motorists don't understand that they have a duty to travel at a rate of speed that allows them to react to things in the road around blind bends and over blind hills.
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Old 11-01-21, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by DangerousDanR View Post
I get it... you don't like Governor Abbot's politics. But until bicycle and pedestrian safety can be moved out of the category of partisan bickering the likelihood of meaningful improvements in bicycle and pedestrian safety are reduced.

And from the numbers I can find Texas is not the warm weather state with the highest bicycle fatality rate; that dubious honor falls to Florida which is way out of line. The most recent numbers I found listed the following as the top 10 along with their per-million fatality rates:
1) Florida 5.7
2 Louisiana 3.8
3) New Mexico 3.1
4) Arizona 3.
5) South Carolina 3.0
6) California 3.0
7) Oregon 2.8
8) North Carolina 2.6
9) Michigan 2.4
10) New York 2.4

In fact, Texas was down in the list with a per-million rate of 1.9

TBH, without a hell of a lot more depth analysis, a comparison between states is probably not telling you much--there's just going to be so much variation in rates between different parts of the state for the generalized number to tell us much of anything.

Comparing cities to other cities is at least a little bit of an apples to apples comparison, but states are too diverse within themselves and between the states for it to mean much of anything.
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Old 11-01-21, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
TBH, without a hell of a lot more depth analysis, a comparison between states is probably not telling you much--there's just going to be so much variation in rates between different parts of the state for the generalized number to tell us much of anything.

Comparing cities to other cities is at least a little bit of an apples to apples comparison, but states are too diverse within themselves and between the states for it to mean much of anything.
Data is fairly shallow too. For example, I'd be interested in knowing how much Florida's snowbird population has to do with their accident rate. Specifically age of the drivers. There are just far too many holes in data to draw a whole lot from it. Heck, we can't really even speak to true rate unless we have a decent idea of the exposure hours.
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Old 11-01-21, 11:06 AM
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Back in the 70s in Italy, I was really surprised at how considerate drivers were of cyclists and other small format modes of transportation. Of course in those days gasoline was about 8+ USD a gallon/4 liters. Also vehicles were bought with cash as securing a loan for a vehicle was rare. So that meant that unless someone came from old money, they were driving a bicycle or moped for a few years while saving up.

It was nice, but I don't know what it's like over there now days...
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Old 11-01-21, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Paul Barnard View Post
Almost without fail, I am stunned by how poorly written these reports are.

"...when what authorities believe to be a Ford Focus struck the line of cyclists"

How damn hard is it to determine the type of car, and furthermore, why does it matter? I can't pinpoint the exact location, but the part of 787 I looked at has a 60MPH speed limit.
A lot of those ACA routes are on roads with very fast moving traffic. Sometimes, interstate highways can be safer due to wider shoulder, greater sight distances, and the rumble strip doesn't obliterate the entire "shoulder" as on smaller 2 lane highways with traffic buzzing you at 75-80 mph
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Old 11-01-21, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Paul Barnard View Post
Data is fairly shallow too. For example, I'd be interested in knowing how much Florida's snowbird population has to do with their accident rate. Specifically age of the drivers. There are just far too many holes in data to draw a whole lot from it. Heck, we can't really even speak to true rate unless we have a decent idea of the exposure hours.

I lived in New Orleans in the 1980s--I couldn't even think of trying to ride a rural road in Louisiana because it likely was a weirdly crowned road full of cracks and potholes going straight through a swamp. It wasn't like riding just about anywhere else I've ever lived.
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Old 11-01-21, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by DangerousDanR View Post
I get it... you don't like Governor Abbot's politics.
No, you don't get it. I don't recall mentioning anything about Gov. Abbot's politics, nor do they have anything to do with my statement.
Normally, I would wish that politicians would spend some time riding a bike in their states, to experience what far too many cyclists go through on the roads. Perhaps then we would see some real changes in the laws, or at least some enforcement of existing laws regarding cyclists and motorists. But, it would be cruel of me to wish that for Gov. Abbot, since he had an unfortunate accident that left him in a wheelchair.
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Old 11-01-21, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
I lived in New Orleans in the 1980s--I couldn't even think of trying to ride a rural road in Louisiana because it likely was a weirdly crowned road full of cracks and potholes going straight through a swamp. It wasn't like riding just about anywhere else I've ever lived.
I grew up in New Orleans and rode there extensively in the 80s, and 90s. I worked in a shop in New Orleans throughout college and I've ridden rural roads extensively throughout the state. If you rode with the local bike club--Crescent City Cyclists, I may have ridden with you. I've ridden with the Baton Rouge Bike Club and the Kisatchie Bike Club out of Alexandria and points north. All I can say is that my memories of those roads are not like yours. There is some good riding in the state (the Feliciania Parishes are beautiful) and there are some flat hot roads that go through the swamps but it is not an experience different from that of anywhere else I've lived.

I like the riding in New England where you live now and I especially like the roads in upstate NY. I lived there as well and have ridden a lot of those roads.The riding in the upper Midwest where I live now is very good especially in the driftless region. All that said, I don't find any of those roads as different from Louisiana as you suggest.

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Old 11-01-21, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by zandoval View Post
Back in the 70s in Italy, I was really surprised at how considerate drivers were of cyclists and other small format modes of transportation. Of course in those days gasoline was about 8+ USD a gallon/4 liters. Also vehicles were bought with cash as securing a loan for a vehicle was rare. So that meant that unless someone came from old money, they were driving a bicycle or moped for a few years while saving up.

It was nice, but I don't know what it's like over there now days...
This, the culture is different in Europe and by and large, drivers are a bit more understanding of cyclists than in the US. That has been my experience as well.
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Old 11-01-21, 06:01 PM
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Originally Posted by bikemig View Post
This, the culture is different in Europe and by and large, drivers are a bit more understanding of cyclists than in the US. That has been my experience as well.
I think European road infrastructure forces the nicer culture. Everything is packed closer together, and there aren't a ton of high speed limit roads within city/town limits. Regarding the USA, better driver education and stiffer legal penalties might help, but you also have to physically remove the opportunity for motorists to drive like buttholes.
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Old 11-02-21, 06:27 AM
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Originally Posted by zandoval View Post
Back in the 70s in Italy, I was really surprised at how considerate drivers were of cyclists and other small format modes of transportation. Of course in those days gasoline was about 8+ USD a gallon/4 liters. Also vehicles were bought with cash as securing a loan for a vehicle was rare. So that meant that unless someone came from old money, they were driving a bicycle or moped for a few years while saving up.

It was nice, but I don't know what it's like over there now days...
I last rode in Italy in 2013. Was there for almost two weeks. Very courteous drivers. Also very skilled. My understanding is that you have to go through much more instruction to get a license than in the states. Indeed, I remember seeing many driving schools even while riding through small towns.
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Old 11-02-21, 06:31 AM
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Originally Posted by JW Fas View Post
I think European road infrastructure forces the nicer culture. Everything is packed closer together, and there aren't a ton of high speed limit roads within city/town limits. Regarding the USA, better driver education and stiffer legal penalties might help, but you also have to physically remove the opportunity for motorists to drive like buttholes.
When I visited Sweden in 1988 I saw my first traffic gauntlet in a suburban neighborhood. I was amazed. One evening my friend and I went into Gothenburg for dinner and a movie. We took the bus because we planned on drinking a bit, and getting caught DUI was a serious thing. You could easily lose your license for a year for a first offense.
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Old 11-02-21, 06:36 AM
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Originally Posted by GhostRider62 View Post
A lot of those ACA routes are on roads with very fast moving traffic. Sometimes, interstate highways can be safer due to wider shoulder, greater sight distances, and the rumble strip doesn't obliterate the entire "shoulder" as on smaller 2 lane highways with traffic buzzing you at 75-80 mph
Yep. One notorious stretch that I have experienced is U.S. 93 between Fortine and Whitefish, MT, which is part of their Northern Tier route. IIRC, the speed limit is 70. At some point the shoulder disappears for most of that segment. (You do take some side roads for a relatively small portion but then have to get back on U.S. 93.) The last tome I rode it was terrifying much of the time.
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Old 11-02-21, 06:42 AM
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Originally Posted by indyfabz View Post
Yep. One notorious stretch that I have experienced is U.S. 93 between Fortine and Whitefish, MT, which is part of their Northern Tier route. IIRC, the speed limit is 70. At some point the shoulder disappears for most of that segment. (You do take some side roads for a relatively small portion but then have to get back on U.S. 93.) The last tome I rode it was terrifying much of the time.
Add all of Transam in Kansas to that. The stretch along the Salmon River in Idaho. East of Pueblo. Anyone on a tadpole trike is screwed with the strips, you have to go out into traffic
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Old 11-02-21, 07:00 AM
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https://www.salemnews.com/news/monts...ffef0f596.html

https://patch.com/massachusetts/hami...-bike-accident

-mr. bill
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Old 11-02-21, 07:06 AM
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Originally Posted by indyfabz View Post
We took the bus because we planned on drinking a bit, and getting caught DUI was a serious thing. You could easily lose your license for a year for a first offense.
Which is how it should be in the US. In most states a first offense yields a six-month suspension but never a full revocation. When I lived in FL you had to get three DUIs in a 10-year span to have your license outright revoked. Insane.
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Old 11-02-21, 07:28 AM
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Update on this: one dead, two in serious condition, driver (Michael J. Weaver of Votaw, Texas) walks.

https://www.chron.com/news/houston-t...a-16582033.php
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Old 11-02-21, 07:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Paul Barnard View Post
It looks like they were hit at the exit of a blind bend. Most motorists don't understand that they have a duty to travel at a rate of speed that allows them to react to things in the road around blind bends and over blind hills.
"But I have to drive the speed limit." <----- biggest crock of sh t lie that drivers buy into. So many motorists BELIEVE they must drive at least the speed posted... and to compensate, they often drive faster. The reality (and laws) are that the speed LIMIT is just that, a limit, and motorists are supposed to drive at a speed suitable for the conditions... which means evaluating the road, the weather, the other traffic and their own situation and driving at a speed below the posted limit and suitable for the situation. This however, is rarely done.
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Old 11-03-21, 06:21 AM
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https://www.chron.com/news/houston-t...a-16582033.php

The article is inflammatory. Yes, the motorist was not arrested. If the cops arrest him, they have to file charges within a certain time period. If they let the motorist go, then they can perform a proper investigation to determine what (if any) charges to file, and then arrest the motorist if that is warranted. It isn't possible to tell whether the motorist is a flight risk and therefore the cops should have arrested and charged him on the spot, but given that "The driver was three miles away from home when the crash occurred," it appears likely that the cops feel comfortable about being able to find the guy if/when they want to arrest him.

Anyway, that's the way it's supposed to work. There are certainly examples where the "investigation" is a travesty and the motorist does actually "walk" but, currently, I don't see anything indicating that the investigation is not proceeding in a proper manner. Keyboard vigilantism, jumping to conclusions, and baseless speculation are not helpful. It is simply venting, and the only light shed is regarding the emotions and prejudices of the poster.

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Old 11-03-21, 07:15 AM
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Originally Posted by noimagination View Post
https://www.chron.com/news/houston-t...a-16582033.php

The article is inflammatory. Yes, the motorist was not arrested. If the cops arrest him, they have to file charges within a certain time period. If they let the motorist go, then they can perform a proper investigation to determine what (if any) charges to file, and then arrest the motorist if that is warranted. It isn't possible to tell whether the motorist is a flight risk and therefore the cops should have arrested and charged him on the spot, but given that "The driver was three miles away from home when the crash occurred," it appears likely that the cops feel comfortable about being able to find the guy if/when they want to arrest him.

Anyway, that's the way it's supposed to work. There are certainly examples where the "investigation" is a travesty and the motorist does actually "walk" but, currently, I don't see anything indicating that the investigation is not proceeding in a proper manner. Keyboard vigilantism, jumping to conclusions, and baseless speculation are not helpful. It is simply venting, and the only light shed is regarding the emotions and prejudices of the poster.
Will you copy and paste the part you thought was most inflammatory?
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Old 11-03-21, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Paul Barnard View Post
Will you copy and paste the part you thought was most inflammatory?
The very title which implies that there was a failure to follow lawful procedures by the police, as well as using choice slang "walks free" to emphasize the alleged miscarriage of justice.
"Driver walks free after hitting six cyclists, killing one in Liberty County
The motorist was released from the scene without charges or a citation despite police noting he 'failed to maintain [his] speed.'

"Police identified the slain cyclist as"
Slain implies a victim of a deliberate violent killing i.e. murder.
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