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Don't be these guys (two abreast in traffic)

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Don't be these guys (two abreast in traffic)

Old 02-08-22, 02:30 PM
  #76  
livedarklions
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Originally Posted by Zaskar
Holy #*@&. If I'd know so many of you guys would come out swinging (the internet is funny), I'd have given way more detail... no... wait. I'd probably had just not posted anything. But, here we are.

Okay. I'll type slowly so it's easy for you to follow.
  • 35 zone
  • Two lanes with center/painted turning lanes and single and double turning lanes at intersections
  • Busy, but not Atlanta busy, i.e., a couple blocks behind and immediately in front of the cyclists, the traffic was moving at or near the speed limit
  • As cars in the right lane approached the riders, they had to brake and start looking to move left. Depending on the gaps, for some, that meant slowing to the pace of the riders... which made shooting into the left lane that much more difficult - the 20 mph difference. That led to more cars slowing... more.
  • The left lane moved largely unaffected unless forced to slow a bit for a car jumping in from the right lane.
  • So again, once past the two riders, the road opened up, cars spread out and sped up.
And again (still) these guys absolutely had the right to be there. My question is "why"? Why pick one of the worst roads in Atlanta to go out for a stroll? The optics added to it - they looked less like two cyclists and more like a rolling roadblock; just casually riding at 12-15 mph... pedal a couple strokes... coast... coast... pedal... run a light...

Funny, you type it slowly like we didn't get it the first time, but it's very clear that we all got what you're saying right the first time. You're just in the wrong here, and you don't get why.

So basically all this public scolding because a few drivers took a few seconds longer to get to the next stop light?

That's a main drag, cyclists are going to use it to get to places near and on the main drag. It's utterly predictable and appropriate that they do so. They do not need to justify being there any more than you need to justify driving there on a road that's supposedly too full of cars. If you're not satisfied with the layout of the street that requires them to ride where they are, I suggest you take it up with the municipal authorities responsible for that road.

On any given drive on a road like that, I can expect to have to slow down because of another driver's actions or to go around a car at least once per mile. I wouldn't even remember doing it 15 seconds after it was over as it's such a non-event. Your Huuuugggge complaint here is you had to slow down for a few seconds to get into the left lane and go around these guys, and this somehow insults your sensibilities. Wahhhhh!

I hate to break it to you, but you've made yourself that guy.
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Old 02-08-22, 02:33 PM
  #77  
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Originally Posted by genejockey
I grew up in farm country, where often a tractor or farm truck would slow traffic, but nobody flipped them off or shouted "Get off the road!" at them, like they did me on my bicycle taking up far less space on the road.
I guess we see the farmers as having a purpose - not a selfish purpose, but working and doing what they're doing because it needs to be done - there and then. There aren't 25 other routes for the farmer to use. We see it as necessary.
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Old 02-08-22, 02:49 PM
  #78  
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Originally Posted by Zaskar
I guess we see the farmers as having a purpose - not a selfish purpose, but working and doing what they're doing because it needs to be done - there and then. There aren't 25 other routes for the farmer to use. We see it as necessary.

Yeah, when I have to wait for someone to turn their car right into the Dunkin Donuts, I'm always struck by how much they're operating unselfishly for the good of all of humanity.

Doing something "necessary" is not a requirement you're going to impose on yourself for adding another car to that road, you don't get to impose that on someone just because they're on a bicycle.
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Old 02-08-22, 03:10 PM
  #79  
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Originally Posted by Zaskar
I guess we see the farmers as having a purpose - not a selfish purpose, but working and doing what they're doing because it needs to be done - there and then. There aren't 25 other routes for the farmer to use. We see it as necessary.
When I was in Highschool I worked on a neighboring farm. We drove hay about a mile right up the highway. We went 15 in a 55. And we did it because driving the hay through the adjacent pasture was a pain. Plain and selfishly simple.

Now I'm wondering, do you own Peachtree Road and get to say who has the right to use it? Maybe those two riders were on their way to work at Piedmont Hospital? You have no idea what their "purpose" was. Or do you? And what was your "purpose"? So mighty and noble?

You have asked this forum "Am I the <expletive>" and we are answering with a resounding "YES!".
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Old 02-08-22, 03:19 PM
  #80  
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Originally Posted by Zaskar
I guess we see the farmers as having a purpose - not a selfish purpose, but working and doing what they're doing because it needs to be done - there and then. There aren't 25 other routes for the farmer to use. We see it as necessary.
1) Farmers are doing it to make money, which one might consider selfish.
2) There is no requirement that your purpose in using a road be generally considered "valid". Outside of emergency vehicles, there's no prioritization of road use privileges based on purpose.
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Old 02-08-22, 03:27 PM
  #81  
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Originally Posted by Zaskar
Holy #*@&. If I'd know so many of you guys would come out swinging (the internet is funny), I'd have given way more detail... no... wait. I'd probably had just not posted anything. But, here we are.

Okay. I'll type slowly so it's easy for you to follow.
  • 35 zone
  • Two lanes with center/painted turning lanes and single and double turning lanes at intersections
  • Busy, but not Atlanta busy, i.e., a couple blocks behind and immediately in front of the cyclists, the traffic was moving at or near the speed limit
  • As cars in the right lane approached the riders, they had to brake and start looking to move left. Depending on the gaps, for some, that meant slowing to the pace of the riders... which made shooting into the left lane that much more difficult - the 20 mph difference. That led to more cars slowing... more.
  • The left lane moved largely unaffected unless forced to slow a bit for a car jumping in from the right lane.
  • So again, once past the two riders, the road opened up, cars spread out and sped up.
And again (still) these guys absolutely had the right to be there. My question is "why"? Why pick one of the worst roads in Atlanta to go out for a stroll? The optics added to it - they looked less like two cyclists and more like a rolling roadblock; just casually riding at 12-15 mph... pedal a couple strokes... coast... coast... pedal... run a light...
Why did YOU pick one of the worse roads in Atlanta to go out for a drive?
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Old 02-08-22, 03:30 PM
  #82  
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Well, it took a bit of work, but I'm glad to see I've convinced you guys.
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Old 02-08-22, 04:09 PM
  #83  
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Originally Posted by Zaskar
I guess we see the farmers as having a purpose - not a selfish purpose, but working and doing what they're doing because it needs to be done - there and then. There aren't 25 other routes for the farmer to use. We see it as necessary.
In case you hadn't noticed, the law doesn't distinguish between necessary and unnecessary travel. By your logic sports cars should be prohibited from using certain roads. After all, what practical application does a Chevy Camaro have over a Toyota Camry? None.
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Old 02-08-22, 04:17 PM
  #84  
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Originally Posted by Zaskar
That opening was in the process of being filled by me - the car to my left had just waved me in.
But first you delayed traffic to take a picture, probably violating assorted device-usage laws in the process.

If you're going to claim it was a dashcam just doing its own thing, you're going to need to post the whole video of this "traffic slowdown"
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Old 02-08-22, 04:38 PM
  #85  
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Originally Posted by UniChris
But first you delayed traffic to take a picture, probably violating assorted device-usage laws in the process.

If you're going to claim it was a dashcam just doing its own thing, you're going to need to post the whole video of this "traffic slowdown"
Dash cams don't record vertical video, and they typically have overlays showing speed, GPS data, date/time, and sometimes the brand name.
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Old 02-08-22, 04:57 PM
  #86  
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Originally Posted by Zaskar
Holy #*@&. If I'd know so many of you guys would come out swinging (the internet is funny), I'd have given way more detail... no... wait. I'd probably had just not posted anything. But, here we are.

Okay. I'll type slowly so it's easy for you to follow.
  • 35 zone
  • Two lanes with center/painted turning lanes and single and double turning lanes at intersections
  • Busy, but not Atlanta busy, i.e., a couple blocks behind and immediately in front of the cyclists, the traffic was moving at or near the speed limit
  • As cars in the right lane approached the riders, they had to brake and start looking to move left. Depending on the gaps, for some, that meant slowing to the pace of the riders... which made shooting into the left lane that much more difficult - the 20 mph difference. That led to more cars slowing... more.
  • The left lane moved largely unaffected unless forced to slow a bit for a car jumping in from the right lane.
  • So again, once past the two riders, the road opened up, cars spread out and sped up.

Where's the problem? Per your description above, traffic was "largely unaffected" in the left lane, and cars in the right lane (normally reserved for slower traffic) could slow down and pass when safe. Is that not how streets work everywhere?



Originally Posted by Zaskar
And again (still) these guys absolutely had the right to be there. My question is "why"? Why pick one of the worst roads in Atlanta to go out for a stroll? The optics added to it - they looked less like two cyclists and more like a rolling roadblock; just casually riding at 12-15 mph... pedal a couple strokes... coast... coast... pedal... run a light...
Why were all those cars there? What was their hurry? How often do you ask any other road user to justify their use of the road? Why were YOU driving? Was it a necessary trip? Could you have picked some other road? Again, your description makes it clear that traffic was moving just fine, and you were able to pass them safely.

Worth noting is that if you express an opinion, and you find that nearly everyone in the forum disagrees with you, it is worth considering the possibility you could be wrong.
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Old 02-08-22, 05:13 PM
  #87  
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Originally Posted by Zaskar
Holy #*@&. If I'd know so many of you guys would come out swinging (the internet is funny), I'd have given way more detail... no... wait. I'd probably had just not posted anything. But, here we are.

Okay. I'll type slowly so it's easy for you to follow.
  • 35 zone
  • Two lanes with center/painted turning lanes and single and double turning lanes at intersections
  • Busy, but not Atlanta busy, i.e., a couple blocks behind and immediately in front of the cyclists, the traffic was moving at or near the speed limit
  • As cars in the right lane approached the riders, they had to brake and start looking to move left. Depending on the gaps, for some, that meant slowing to the pace of the riders... which made shooting into the left lane that much more difficult - the 20 mph difference. That led to more cars slowing... more.
  • The left lane moved largely unaffected unless forced to slow a bit for a car jumping in from the right lane.
  • So again, once past the two riders, the road opened up, cars spread out and sped up.
And again (still) these guys absolutely had the right to be there. My question is "why"? Why pick one of the worst roads in Atlanta to go out for a stroll? The optics added to it - they looked less like two cyclists and more like a rolling roadblock; just casually riding at 12-15 mph... pedal a couple strokes... coast... coast... pedal... run a light...
Everything you mentioned was part of my daily commute... along with cars parked on my right, along parts of the route. I took the right most lane. Cars had to move to the left lane to pass me. Yes, sometimes the driver was upset by that. The oddest such encounter took place on a Sunday morning, in one of the rare areas where there were 3 lanes going each way... (no cars along the curb, no BL.) I took the right lane, there was no other traffic within at least a 1/4 mile. The TWO lanes to my left were empty. Driver came up behind me, in the right lane and paced for a bit, and then HONKED! No other cars around, as I said... yet they could not change lanes on this empty 35MPH road. WTF???

Yeah, there are drivers like that. Don't be one.

If there are multiple lanes going in the same direction, there is no reason that a cyclist cannot "take" the right most lane if there is not a WOL or BL. Sorry... same situation as driving behind a slow bus. Learn patience, signal soon and drive with care. SHARE THE ROAD!
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Old 02-08-22, 05:28 PM
  #88  
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Originally Posted by Zaskar
And yeah, they ran this light... of course they did.
That's good, right? So if the driver behind them wanted to turn right, he can without waiting for the light to change.
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Old 02-08-22, 05:29 PM
  #89  
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Originally Posted by Zaskar
Well, it took a bit of work, but I'm glad to see I've convinced you guys.
Ha, well, next time post a sideshow video and we'll all jump on the wagon...
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Old 02-08-22, 05:54 PM
  #90  
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Originally Posted by Zaskar
My question is "why"?
People already explained why.

The right lane appears too narrow for vehicles to safely pass a single cyclist. Even if that single cyclist was hugging the curb.

Georgia has a 3 foot passing law. It seems you would need to use part of the left lane to pass one curb-hugging cyclist. Georgia also allows cyclists to "take the lane" if the lane is "substandard" (what "substandard" means isn't always clear but 14 feet seems fairly common).

If there's not enough room, then either curb-hugging cyclist would be "holding up" traffic OR people would be making unsafe passes.

If there is not enough room to pass one cyclist safely, it's moot whether they ride abreast.

By riding abreast, the cyclists are preventing unsafe passes.

Last edited by njkayaker; 02-08-22 at 06:09 PM.
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Old 02-08-22, 06:14 PM
  #91  
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Originally Posted by Zaskar
And again (still) these guys absolutely had the right to be there. My question is "why"?
I'm not trying to break your balls, but because they had the right to be there, they have no obligation to explain to you or anyone why. As a cyclist, I cannot think of one time I've been put out by having to give room to someone doing something I enjoy. I think that is why many of us do not understand your complaint.
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Old 02-08-22, 06:33 PM
  #92  
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Originally Posted by Zaskar
  • As cars in the right lane approached the riders, they had to brake and start looking to move left. Depending on the gaps, for some, that meant slowing to the pace of the riders... which made shooting into the left lane that much more difficult - the 20 mph difference. That led to more cars slowing... more.
You touch on the reason why it is more courteous to ride center in a non sharable lane vs. in the far right. An approaching driver will know from a good distance back that they can not pass the cyclist(s) before they need to slow down and they can look for a gap and merge left into a lane of traffic at similar speed. When cyclist is far to the right an approaching driver may not notice as early and will have already slowed to cyclist speed with little buffer space making a merge more difficult and more impactful to flow of rest of traffic. For many years I cycled home from work on a road very similar to this and observed this difference in my rear view mirror - stay left and drivers will start their pass earlier helping the traffic flow better for everyone.
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Old 02-08-22, 09:21 PM
  #93  
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Originally Posted by Zaskar
My question is "why"? Why pick one of the worst roads in Atlanta to go out for a stroll?
Asking with all seriousness:

How would you suggest they get across Peachtree Creek going northbound?

Northside Drive? Piedmont Rd? US41? Buford Highway? Wade across?

There aren’t many options in that part of town to get to less busy roads north of Peachtree Creek. Particularly if they live in one of the myriad residential neighborhoods in the area you took that picture.

Last edited by gpburdell; 02-08-22 at 09:56 PM.
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Old 02-08-22, 09:38 PM
  #94  
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Originally Posted by JW Fas
Dash cams don't record vertical video, and they typically have overlays showing speed, GPS data, date/time, and sometimes the brand name.
Pretty sure the 352x267 pixel photo is a crop from whatever source, whether dash cam or phone.

Though if youíre suggesting itís not a crop from a dash cam, Iím curious what phone provides that size and ratio image?
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Old 02-09-22, 03:36 AM
  #95  
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That's the reason why I take the entire lane, don't stick on the right side of right lane:
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Old 02-09-22, 06:03 AM
  #96  
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I'll say this for the OP: He's somehow managed to find a way to unite pretty much everyone on A&S.

Posting that cyclists shouldn't ride where they have a right to because they might annoy drivers on a forum dedicated to cycling advocacy? Acting surprised by resistance to that message then retyping the same exact message "slowly"? Yup, implicitly insulting our intelligence was an interesting choice.

Thanks for the laughs, OP! Your unwitting parody of an inconsiderate driver who really doesn't know much about urban cycling was spot on. Say hi to Dunning and Kruger for me.
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Old 02-09-22, 08:20 AM
  #97  
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Originally Posted by genec
You know, funny thing about this picture... if the traffic was so heavy... why isn't there another car behind the one on the left, at the light?

?
My exact thought. Traffic is backed up for blocks, but there is nobody within several car lengths of the car stopped at the light in the left lane? That set off my BS alarm. As did the fact that the passenger in the vehicle who was taking evidentiary photos, didn't point the camera aft and take a pic to support their assertion. Side by side is the best position for both the cyclists and the other motorists in this equation.

The original post didn't appear to come from anyone with any experience or education in riding safely in traffic. Have you ever watched a discussion on bicycling in traffic unfold somewhere other than BF? You know that one person who starts their comment off with "I am a bicyclist too, but..." That's the OP. It's the antithesis of advocacy.
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Old 02-09-22, 08:24 AM
  #98  
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This video demonstrates why it's better for motorists when cyclists ride side by side as opposed to end to end. While the group in the video is larger, the principles remain.

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Old 02-09-22, 08:32 AM
  #99  
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Another fallacy of the OPs argument is that he has no idea where the cyclists are coming from, or where they are going, yet he has the temerity to assert that they shouldn't be where they are. That's not at all unusual in the motorist first mindset.
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Old 02-09-22, 08:42 AM
  #100  
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Originally Posted by Zaskar
Well, it took a bit of work, but I'm glad to see I've convinced you guys.
Your post is a fail. Nobody is agreeing with you including me.

Time to move on.
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