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Ocoee Florida Hit and Run

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Ocoee Florida Hit and Run

Old 02-10-22, 06:26 AM
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hotbike
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Ocoee Florida Hit and Run

Florida- Hit and Run
Three kids on bikes, the first two cross the street, but the third has to wait.
Child struck by car, driver kept going.

https://www.clickorlando.com/news/local/2022/02/08/call-the-cops-video-shows-driver-smash-into-child-on-bicycle-in-ocoee-hit-and-run/

My opinion is the first driver should have seen the group of three, stopped and waited for all three to cross. But the guy in the black hatchback definitely needs jail time.
https://www.clickorlando.com/news/lo...e-hit-and-run/
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Old 02-10-22, 02:50 PM
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I'm going to take a very brave stand here--hitting and running children is wrong. People shouldn't do it and should be punished if caught.

I'm not watching the video. Enough of these threads.
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Old 02-11-22, 09:00 AM
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There are definitely behavioral issues involved in this even before the the hit and run, but there are also a number of other factors very, very much worth noting and thinking about.

First, the area (google map) is an example of "cutesy" design that's actually horrible. The "main" road is clearly a thoroughfare for at least this area of housing, signed 25 mph according to the news report, but we know what's going to happen especially as it's a straight shot with no stop signs or stop lights.

Then instead of ordinary intersections, most of the cross streets are staggered mid-block relative to each other, which makes for a lot of situations that are an intersection for some users but don't feel at all like one for others. It also means there's no obviously correct place for pedestrians to cross.

Design wise, pedestrian facilities look decorative rather than functional. The sidewalks are drastically set back - at least a third of the way into substantial front lawns. The effective route from there to the street is to walk out one of the private driveways that cross the sidewalk. Crossing at one of the staggered intersections is substantially discouraged, since there's often no private driveway on the other side to give a route to or from the sidewalk at that point - and there are no painted crosswalks, which makes it non-obvious that it would be worth detouring to one of these intersecting roads to walk across, especially since then there's also potentially traffic on the intersecting road to take into account.

All of these factors come together to cause what happened.

Kids had come down one of these driveways to the main road, which they then need to cross. Because there's not even half an intersection there, there's no marked or unmarked crosswalk. Finally one driver in the near lane (white car) does stop to allow the kid to cross. But unfortunately, about three cars lengths beyond them also in the near lane, there's a black pickup truck that's come to a stop preparing to make a left turn into a street that intersects on the opposite side of the road.

The kid is now facing a misleading and expectant situation - two friends are already across from a much earlier marginal opportunity, creating an implicit even if unspoken "come on, already!" After watching lots of vehicles flow by, now suddenly to their left there's an adult in the white car who has politely stopped (even though not required) to allow them to cross from a private driveway, but there's also a large vehicle to their right blocking their view of traffic approaching in the far lane, and substantially hiding them from those approaching there faster than they probably should be. Worse, view of the fact that the white car has stopped is both partially blocked by the pickup ahead, but also the fact that the pickup is blocking the white car's travel makes it non-obvious that the white car has actually stopped for its own distinct and very important reason.

The collision car approaches, most likely too fast, seeing only a clear lane far ahead on their own side, and on the other side a pickup truck waiting to turn left once they've past, and another car waiting a few car lengths back rather than right on its bumper.

Edit: kicking myself that even as an adult who uses roads in all modes, it was an entire hour later, out on a ride, before I realized that not only did the pickup waiting to turn left screen the possibility of oncoming traffic, the fact that the driver was still waiting to make their turn indicated that there essentially had to be oncoming traffic.

Last edited by UniChris; 02-25-22 at 12:07 PM.
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Old 02-11-22, 09:52 AM
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that whole neighborhood's design is terrible. no cross walks for pedestrians on the main rd or cross streets

what the heck is this, on just 1 cross st?

anyone else see the irony? maybe it's not irony? irony would be if the st name was "best rd"?

btw - the video wasn't so bad & apparently the kid wasn't injured. I think it highlights the incredibly bad design of the whole neighborhood, not just speeding. there are ways to address these dangers. but to get anyone w/ control of the money to help this (low income?) neighborhood, would be a stretch
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Old 02-11-22, 09:57 AM
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I'm not actually sure how you "fix" this street.

One idea would be to make each of these staggered intersections an all way stop, and paint crosswalks - but then you'd also have to take a right of way up each opposite lawn to connect to the opposing sidewalk.

Another idea could be to recognize the role of the road for what it is, and reconstruct it more like roads filling that purpose. So for example, sign it at 35 mph, widen the paving with a nice bike lane on each side, then move the sidewalks down to be more immediately adjacent, and more readily connected by a painted crosswalk at each half intersection. This does invite the current usage speeds to continue - but by making the road feel as threatening as it actually is, and providing clearly visible places that are actually good for crossing, maybe it ends up safer than the current "every spot is equally bad to cross" situation.

You could still get the occluding pickup truck problem with someone waiting to turn into a private driveway just beyond the intersection, but at least a painted crossing at an actual intersection makes the possibility that someone might be trying to cross more noteworthy.
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Old 02-11-22, 11:03 AM
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I have some ideas, from what I've seen in Massachusetts & Connecticut. but there are experts in the field that can more accurately address the dangers after some studies are done. but who would finance the studies & consultants? there's plenty of infrastructure expertise out there for traffic "calming" & public safety which can be applied to a neighborhood development designed a long time ago
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Old 02-12-22, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by hotbike View Post
Florida- Hit and Run
Three kids on bikes, the first two cross the street, but the third has to wait.
Child struck by car, driver kept going.

https://www.clickorlando.com/news/lo...e-hit-and-run/

My opinion is the first driver should have seen the group of three, stopped and waited for all three to cross. But the guy in the black hatchback definitely needs jail time.
https://www.clickorlando.com/news/lo...e-hit-and-run/
Everyone needs to be looking for that car. It must have damage. The driver should get the max sentence possible.
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