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Warning N. CA East Bay Mtb'ers!

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Warning N. CA East Bay Mtb'ers!

Old 03-23-22, 01:25 PM
  #51  
livedarklions
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Originally Posted by rydabent View Post
If that is not true, why then is the fine so obscenely high?

If the fine was lower, it wouldn't be much of a deterrent.

And I think the fine fits the crime. Calling it obscenely high just begs the question.
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Old 03-23-22, 01:32 PM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
If the fine was lower, it wouldn't be much of a deterrent.
Exactly. The goal of a legitimate regulation should be to entirely prevent the illicit behavior, with the result that no one is ever assessed the fine anyway. It's pretty hard to accidentally climb over a high fence.

Contrast something like NYC's "stipulated" fines program where commercial operators agree to just pay some percentage of parking tickets without challenging any of them. Such an illegitimate program exists to let things like parking in the bike lane simply be a cost of doing business.
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Old 03-23-22, 08:58 PM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by Polaris OBark View Post
And of course there is the simple issue of erosion control.
Because cyclists and hikers both f up trails by cutting switchbacks and other things that decrease effectiveness of erosion control tactics. They also spread out trails around inconvenient terrain. In general, left to their own devices, harm the land.

My guess is that this particular incident in the op is the result of a long standing problem by users who think they know better than land managers and the hefty fine reflects the ongoing problem and ramped up enforcement that is necessary.
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Old 03-24-22, 06:03 AM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by Camilo View Post
Because cyclists and hikers both f up trails by cutting switchbacks and other things that decrease effectiveness of erosion control tactics. They also spread out trails around inconvenient terrain. In general, left to their own devices, harm the land.

My guess is that this particular incident in the op is the result of a long standing problem by users who think they know better than land managers and the hefty fine reflects the ongoing problem and ramped up enforcement that is necessary.
Exactly!
The existence of a trail is, pretty much by definition, a disruption of the soil. It's erosion all by itself and erosion tends to spread, even without further human intervention. You point out also the domino effect, one trail leads to another and another after that.
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Old 03-24-22, 08:53 AM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by Camilo View Post
Because cyclists and hikers both f up trails by cutting switchbacks and other things that decrease effectiveness of erosion control tactics.
When I did my first backcountry backpack trip (7-days in Glacier N.P.) not cutting switchbacks was one thing I learned early on from my guide. We encountered a few good-sized groups out for day hikes doing it. He even spoke up to one group about it as the passed us going in the other direction.
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Old 03-25-22, 08:26 PM
  #56  
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And your point is? Getting back to the original post he got caught hoisting his bike over a fence to access an illegally created trail in a restricted watershed. I think $600 was too low. Should cost at least $1000 for the obvious infraction and not understanding about laws.
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Old 03-27-22, 03:14 AM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by Joe Bikerider View Post
And your point is? Getting back to the original post he got caught hoisting his bike over a fence to access an illegally created trail in a restricted watershed. I think $600 was too low. Should cost at least $1000 for the obvious infraction and not understanding about laws.

That's what I find so ironic about all these people whining about the size of the fine--obviously, if the fence isn't deterring them, the fine has got to be high if there's any chance for it to deter.
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Old 04-22-22, 04:14 PM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by Joe Bikerider View Post
And your point is? Getting back to the original post he got caught hoisting his bike over a fence to access an illegally created trail in a restricted watershed. I think $600 was too low. Should cost at least $1000 for the obvious infraction and not understanding about laws.

Exactly.......... And he is complaining about getting caught. This is hilarious !
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Old 04-22-22, 05:15 PM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by Comfort is King View Post
Just like all other cash fines, it's fundamentally unfair. While $600 might be quite a deterrent and/or penalty for most, for many it wouldn't have any effect. It doesn't seem right how one person should lose a week's pay, while the next looses one day's. This holds especially true for speeding. Wealthy people with sports cars treat some of the best cycling roads as race tracks, essentially with impunity, because whatever fine is a joke to them.
easy answer is not speeding just like not crossing climbing a fence
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Old 04-23-22, 08:40 PM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by squirtdad View Post
easy answer is not speeding just like not crossing climbing a fence
And, of course, in the world {full} of "things that are unfair because people with a lot of money don't have as much of a burden as people who don't have a lot of money"... I would say this is pretty far down the list in importance.
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