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Down with helmet laws?

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Down with helmet laws?

Old 06-03-22, 06:20 PM
  #51  
TLit
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I'll look around for a good helmet; though I'm a very cautious rider, I can see that they can come in handy.
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Old 06-05-22, 11:47 PM
  #52  
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to be honest wearing a helmet does not imply a lot of disconfort.
unless maybe the strap is too tight and you can't breathe.

so in theory it's a no brainer: a lot more + than -
yet it is not that simple.
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Old 06-06-22, 07:36 AM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by refrigerator900 View Post
to be honest wearing a helmet does not imply a lot of disconfort.
unless maybe the strap is too tight and you can't breathe.

so in theory it's a no brainer: a lot more + than -
yet it is not that simple.

I always wear my helmet, but it's definitely a lot more uncomfortable on a hot day than having a bare head. If someone is prone to heat exhaustion and/or heat stroke, the equation is a bit less of a no-brainer. I don't have that problem, but I offer it as an example of why this needs to be an individual decision.
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Old 06-06-22, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
I always wear my helmet, but it's definitely a lot more uncomfortable on a hot day than having a bare head. If someone is prone to heat exhaustion and/or heat stroke, the equation is a bit less of a no-brainer. I don't have that problem, but I offer it as an example of why this needs to be an individual decision.
yeah that happens to me too, i feel my brain boiling. and it's white - the helmet, not the brain :|

ok let's say you want to learn a new trick - wear it then at least

but unfortunatelly accidents happen when you least expect them.
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Old 06-06-22, 06:14 PM
  #55  
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BETTER TO BE WEARING A BICYCLE HELMET, AND NOT NEED IT, THAN TO BE WITHOUT WEARING ONE, AND THEN NEED HEAD PROTECTION!!!

There is NO downside to wearing a bicycle helmet*.

* UNLESS perhaps if you are riding through dense wooded forests/jungles without any cleared paths, where overhanging low branches could possibly catch your helmet straps or helmet vents, visor or the bulk of the shell structure enough to cause serious injury to you. This is unlikely unless you are a dumbass who wishes to try riding through dense wooded forests with out any clearings or even cleared footpaths.


Yes, it is ultimately your own choice whether you want to own and wear a helmet.
PICTURE A WATERMELON DROPPED ON PAVEMENT/ASPHALT FROM A HEIGHT of 30 INCHES (45 centimeters) (two and a half feet).
PICTURE A WATERMELON DROPPED ON PAVEMENT FROM A HEIGHT OF 48 inches (four feet) (122 centimeters)
***************This is a very similar representation to what likely would happen to your bare head********************
You might be hard-headed but I doubt that you would like to put that to a test.
You might become HUMPTY DUMPTY.
Your last ride might be in a Life-Flight Helicopter to the Trauma Center, or it might be in a Hearse to the Morgue.
You definitely do want to make sure that you have a great health insurance plan, and that you are not in a not-so-good HMO. You also want to be certain that you contact Jonathan Lawson at Colonial Penn, or any other compareable, respected, quality, Life Insurance Companies............and set up a decent Life Insurance Policy that will provide for your spouse and children after you die from head injuries sustained in the bicycle crash. The first-rate , great health insurance plan is imperative because should you survive for perhaps a week, or if you do survive as a disabled vegetable that needs specialized 24/7 care for the remainder of your life, you will need the best health plan because such medical costs will be in the millions within a week.
......................It is your choice to live life in HD, like H.D. (humpty dumpty).
Remember though that your family, friends, colleagues, tennis pals, riding buddies, neighbors, and clients ARE GONNA REALLY MISS HAVING YOU AROUND, whether you die or become a vegetable!
.........The Helmet can only do you good. You might NEVER NEED IT, but the one time that YOU DO NEED IT, and DON'T HAVE IT ON, and you are a "GONE-ER".

.....................You're worth it.............wear the helmet every time that you get on your bike, IF ONLY FOR ALL THE LOVED ONES IN YOUR LIFE, THAT WANT YOU TO COME HOME AND BE AROUND FOR A LOT MORE GOOD TIMES TO COME!
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Old 06-07-22, 06:51 AM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by Vintage Schwinn View Post
There is NO downside to wearing a bicycle helmet*.

* UNLESS perhaps if you are riding through dense wooded forests/jungles without any cleared paths, where overhanging low branches could possibly catch your helmet straps or helmet vents, visor or the bulk of the shell structure enough to cause serious injury to you. This is unlikely unless you are a dumbass who wishes to try riding through dense wooded forests with out any clearings or even cleared footpaths.
You're largely preaching to the choir here because almost everyone in this thread has had an "I always wear" disclaimer in their post, but if you actually want to convince someone who isn't wearing a helmet to do so, don't insult people's intelligence by putting nonsense like the above in your post. Obviously, there's lots of "downsides" to wearing a helmet. They cost money, they're uncomfortable, they can make you more prone to bad effects of heat, they're unattractive, they're another thing you have to carry around, they're easy to forget if you set them down during a stop, they mess up your hair, they can build up sweat, etc. Those may seem like trivial concerns, but pretty much every time someone takes a ride, they're weighing those against the remote statistical probability that they will be involved in a crash where the helmet will actually improve the outcome.
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Old 06-07-22, 08:04 AM
  #57  
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Lots of opinions here.

My impression was always that helmets are not to protect us from accidents with cars, but from impacts with the ground which are just as likely from riding too slowly through rough terrain as from being struck by another road/trail user.
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Old 06-07-22, 09:50 AM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by ClydeClydeson View Post
Lots of opinions here.

My impression was always that helmets are not to protect us from accidents with cars, but from impacts with the ground which are just as likely from riding too slowly through rough terrain as from being struck by another road/trail user.
Those are not mutually exclusive purposes. There's multiple ways to cause your head to impact the ground or some other object. But yeah, if you get hit by a car, landing on your head can definitely happen.

I only discovered when my bike flew out from beneath me a few years ago that some of the stuff MA uses to patch roads is pretty slippery at some warmer temperatures.
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Old 06-07-22, 11:36 AM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
I only discovered when my bike flew out from beneath me a few years ago that some of the stuff MA uses to patch roads is pretty slippery at some warmer temperatures.
Damn slippery when wet too. And it's also town by town, the town boundary is at 14 seconds and the "Ooopsies" on the wet patches is about a second later.

I know it doesn't look that dramatic, handlebar mounted gopro makes it look meh. Long descent with a 25 MPH speed limit, so was switching between rim brakes.

My friend behind me thought I was going down, but I converted a low side into a high side and hung on. Not so much skill as luck.


-mr. bill
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Old 06-07-22, 11:52 AM
  #60  
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I slipped on some sand and took a spill off my bike. Hit my head on the ground and dented my helmet. Immediately went to the bike store and bought a new one.
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Old 06-07-22, 12:34 PM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by mr_bill View Post
Damn slippery when wet too. And it's also town by town, the town boundary is at 14 seconds and the "Ooopsies" on the wet patches is about a second later.

I know it doesn't look that dramatic, handlebar mounted gopro makes it look meh. Long descent with a 25 MPH speed limit, so was switching between rim brakes.

My friend behind me thought I was going down, but I converted a low side into a high side and hung on. Not so much skill as luck.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8026wRM0448

-mr. bill

Yup, that's the stuff. That black rubbery crap. I knew it was slippery when wet, but there appears to be a temperature in the mid-80s or so that wouldn't catch my Gatorskins. I don't use Gatorskins anymore, partly because of that incident. Just skinned my knee pretty bad, but missing my head was just luck on that one.
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Old 06-07-22, 12:37 PM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by NomarsGirl View Post
I slipped on some sand and took a spill off my bike. Hit my head on the ground and dented my helmet. Immediately went to the bike store and bought a new one.

Let me guess--spring time? I hate sand patches on pavement.
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Old 06-07-22, 02:33 PM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
Let me guess--spring time? I hate sand patches on pavement.
Yes. Last spring. I suppose these laws can be unfairly enforced. I'm sure plenty of people can't just immediately go buy a new helmet if something happens to theirs. I would feel strange riding a fancy carbon fiber bike and wearing a dented helmet. Can't plead poverty for the helmet.
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Old 06-07-22, 09:15 PM
  #64  
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While livedarklions is entirely correct with his collective "downsides" to helmets, none of them are based in practical reality.

HERE ARE MANY new no-name chinese BICYCLE HELMETS which are currently ALL AVAILABLE New FROM USA BASED sellers on the bay for $12 or less with free shipping!!
https://www.ebay.com/itm/303744947388
https://www.ebay.com/itm/304007820794
https://www.ebay.com/itm/203132673779
https://www.ebay.com/itm/304070162098

THOSE ARE ALL new HELMETS for $12 or $11 with Free Shipping to your doorstep........yeah assuming you state's sales tax is 10%, you are looking at a maximum total of $13.20 at the most for any one of them.
......Those listings are from several different USA based vendors. They appear to be pretty much the same exact "no name"-(unbranded) chinese helmet that all the vendors have for sale.
ARGUABLY, THESE BICYCLE HELMETS ARE AFFORDABLE.
ARGUABLY, THESE BICYCLE HELMETS ARE BETTER THAN A 30 YEAR OLD BEAT UP HELMET, WITH NO ADJUSTABLE DIAL-IN FIT.
Certainly, these helmets will likely fit 90% or more of typical Adults. Sure someone with a gigantic basketball sized noggin would need something else.

Nothing is wrong with an ancient bicycle helmet versus not wearing a helmet. You will have a decent level of protection, versus none if not wearing anything.
Truthfully, you might never put the head protection to the test, but you are really up Schittz Creek if your bare head ever bounces or even has a light glancing blow off of the pavement.

Hell, if you are worried about matting down or messing up your hair-do, while engaged in outdoor recreational exercise fun, perhaps your priorities are maybe slightly off.
Todays bicycle helmets are very lightweight and most all of them do have more than enough and sufficient cooling vents. The only one that I have seen that might be suspect of not having enough air holes might be those Section 8 , eight ball helmets which are essentially skateboard helmets.....those would probably be fine in a climate that does not exceed 72F because someone likely would not overheat, given that they have at least five airholes that are nickel sized. I don't disagree that perhaps some poorly conditioned--out of shape, individuals may overheat with those helmets with limited vent holes at outside temperatures above 72F.
As for the vast majority of other BICYCLE HELMETS, including those new $12 helmets that are seen in links above, do have significant cooling slots and holes such that they should not be a contributing factor at all in even persons who are considerably out of shape, and in poor health.

Believe it or not, there are still dummies that look at current Bicycle Helmets and state that because of the lightweight plastic type shell and styrofoam construction like a 99 cents styrofoam cooler for the beach in 1967, cannot be worth a damn for head protection because of its lightweight type construction. Yet these dummies go bareheaded thinking that their numb skull will handle any bump or banging against the road. Certainly, a bicycle helmet isn't constructed like a motorcycle helmet, or a modern official use football helmet, or a baseball batting helmet, BUT THAT DOES NOT MEAN THAT THE BICYCLE HELMET WILL NOT PROVIDE SUBSTANTIAL PROTECTION OF YOUR SKULL BY ABSORBING MUCH OF THE FORCE OF THE IMPACT, WHILE THE STYROFOAM LAYER SACRIFICIALLY CRACKS/DESTRUCTS So That Great Force of Impact Is Not Imparted on your Skull. .....IN FACT IN MOST CASES, YOUR BICYCLE HELMET WILL SAVE YOUR SKULL!! You ain't got nothing, if you've got nothing on your head. There is a high probability that you could end up dead if your head sustains just a medium whack against concrete or asphalt. Wearing any bicycle helmet would likely save you in such a similar situation*.
* there are no guarantees.
But your chances of survival and walking away do rise exponentially if you are wearing a bicycle helmet.
Those new $12 bicycle helmets will do the job. WEARING NO HELMET WILL NOT DO ANYTHING FOR YOU.
Sure, perhaps you can argue that perhaps more expensive, more technically advanced bicycle helmets might offer greater potential protection...
Don't be an idiot that thinks that because they cannot afford the ______ brand , model ABC123 helmet which retails for $212.99 so I will ride without a helmet because I cannot afford a so-called good brand name helmet. That is just beyond insane. Yet, almost everyone encounters someone that is that foolish about every month.
All helmets do conform to minimal standards, so the lowest priced, no-name helmets will at least be about on par with the best helmets of twenty to twenty-five years ago, if not significantly better than those were.
Think about it, you should consider wearing a bicycle helmet every time that you get on your bicycle. It can only do you good, even if it messes up your 'do.
Whatever you do, just like Karl Malden once said, "DON'T LEAVE HOME WITHOUT IT".
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Old 06-08-22, 04:18 AM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by Vintage Schwinn View Post
While livedarklions is entirely correct with his collective "downsides" to helmets, none of them are based in practical reality.

HERE ARE MANY new no-name chinese BICYCLE HELMETS which are currently ALL AVAILABLE New FROM USA BASED sellers on the bay for $12 or less with free shipping!!
https://www.ebay.com/itm/303744947388
https://www.ebay.com/itm/304007820794
https://www.ebay.com/itm/203132673779
https://www.ebay.com/itm/304070162098

THOSE ARE ALL new HELMETS for $12 or $11 with Free Shipping to your doorstep........yeah assuming you state's sales tax is 10%, you are looking at a maximum total of $13.20 at the most for any one of them.
......Those listings are from several different USA based vendors. They appear to be pretty much the same exact "no name"-(unbranded) chinese helmet that all the vendors have for sale.
ARGUABLY, THESE BICYCLE HELMETS ARE AFFORDABLE.
ARGUABLY, THESE BICYCLE HELMETS ARE BETTER THAN A 30 YEAR OLD BEAT UP HELMET, WITH NO ADJUSTABLE DIAL-IN FIT.
Certainly, these helmets will likely fit 90% or more of typical Adults. Sure someone with a gigantic basketball sized noggin would need something else.

Nothing is wrong with an ancient bicycle helmet versus not wearing a helmet. You will have a decent level of protection, versus none if not wearing anything.
Truthfully, you might never put the head protection to the test, but you are really up Schittz Creek if your bare head ever bounces or even has a light glancing blow off of the pavement.

Hell, if you are worried about matting down or messing up your hair-do, while engaged in outdoor recreational exercise fun, perhaps your priorities are maybe slightly off.
Todays bicycle helmets are very lightweight and most all of them do have more than enough and sufficient cooling vents. The only one that I have seen that might be suspect of not having enough air holes might be those Section 8 , eight ball helmets which are essentially skateboard helmets.....those would probably be fine in a climate that does not exceed 72F because someone likely would not overheat, given that they have at least five airholes that are nickel sized. I don't disagree that perhaps some poorly conditioned--out of shape, individuals may overheat with those helmets with limited vent holes at outside temperatures above 72F.
As for the vast majority of other BICYCLE HELMETS, including those new $12 helmets that are seen in links above, do have significant cooling slots and holes such that they should not be a contributing factor at all in even persons who are considerably out of shape, and in poor health.

Believe it or not, there are still dummies that look at current Bicycle Helmets and state that because of the lightweight plastic type shell and styrofoam construction like a 99 cents styrofoam cooler for the beach in 1967, cannot be worth a damn for head protection because of its lightweight type construction. Yet these dummies go bareheaded thinking that their numb skull will handle any bump or banging against the road. Certainly, a bicycle helmet isn't constructed like a motorcycle helmet, or a modern official use football helmet, or a baseball batting helmet, BUT THAT DOES NOT MEAN THAT THE BICYCLE HELMET WILL NOT PROVIDE SUBSTANTIAL PROTECTION OF YOUR SKULL BY ABSORBING MUCH OF THE FORCE OF THE IMPACT, WHILE THE STYROFOAM LAYER SACRIFICIALLY CRACKS/DESTRUCTS So That Great Force of Impact Is Not Imparted on your Skull. .....IN FACT IN MOST CASES, YOUR BICYCLE HELMET WILL SAVE YOUR SKULL!! You ain't got nothing, if you've got nothing on your head. There is a high probability that you could end up dead if your head sustains just a medium whack against concrete or asphalt. Wearing any bicycle helmet would likely save you in such a similar situation*.
* there are no guarantees.
But your chances of survival and walking away do rise exponentially if you are wearing a bicycle helmet.
Those new $12 bicycle helmets will do the job. WEARING NO HELMET WILL NOT DO ANYTHING FOR YOU.
Sure, perhaps you can argue that perhaps more expensive, more technically advanced bicycle helmets might offer greater potential protection...
Don't be an idiot that thinks that because they cannot afford the ______ brand , model ABC123 helmet which retails for $212.99 so I will ride without a helmet because I cannot afford a so-called good brand name helmet. That is just beyond insane. Yet, almost everyone encounters someone that is that foolish about every month.
All helmets do conform to minimal standards, so the lowest priced, no-name helmets will at least be about on par with the best helmets of twenty to twenty-five years ago, if not significantly better than those were.
Think about it, you should consider wearing a bicycle helmet every time that you get on your bicycle. It can only do you good, even if it messes up your 'do.
Whatever you do, just like Karl Malden once said, "DON'T LEAVE HOME WITHOUT IT".

Again, I always wear a helmet. People who don't have obviously decided that the downsides exist and outweigh the relatively remote possibility that they'll be in a crash where a helmet will actually protect them. Your posts denying the reality, relevance or sensibility of those calculations will do absolutely nothing to convince people who don't wear helmets to do so because they are going to tune you out as soon as you tell them they shouldn't care about those things they care about.

Why are you posting this stuff here? Everyone on this thread has said they wear a helmet.
Are you actually recommending people buy helmets on ebay? That seems dubious.

And, jeez, why are all your posts so bloody long?

Last edited by livedarklions; 06-08-22 at 02:24 PM.
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Old 06-08-22, 05:38 AM
  #66  
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Originally Posted by Vintage Schwinn View Post
...
HERE ARE MANY new no-name chinese BICYCLE HELMETS which are currently ALL AVAILABLE New FROM USA BASED sellers on the bay for $12 or less with free shipping!!
...
With counterfeit CE certification marks.

Real mark (note that the "c" and "e" form a sideways "8"):


Counterfeit marks (note that the "c" and "e" are too close to one another):


While there's nothing wrong with the CE EN 1078 helmet safety standard (I have one, purchased in Germany), a "USA BASED" seller wouldn't be selling them in the US market.

Hope this helps.

-mr. bill
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Old 06-08-22, 06:28 AM
  #67  
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Enforcement

Clearly enforcement is the problem and focusing that enforcement on less fortunate or minority persons. As streets become more crowded with micro mobility users it will be increasingly hard to pick and choose who to enforce helmet laws against. The same argument could be made about seatbelts. Do we have the law but not enforce it, just to emphasize that itís the right thing to do?
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Old 06-08-22, 08:19 PM
  #68  
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In every state in which they exist, helmet laws apply only to children. The concept of police enforcing trivial laws against children might have worked in Mayberry 60 years ago, but it really doesn't seem appropriate in today's society.
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Old 06-09-22, 08:34 AM
  #69  
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Originally Posted by jon c. View Post
In every state in which they exist, helmet laws apply only to children. The concept of police enforcing trivial laws against children might have worked in Mayberry 60 years ago, but it really doesn't seem appropriate in today's society.
Wow! I didn't know that. Thanks for bringing that up. It kind of makes the whole thing moot. But I guess it is not moot if there is pressure to make older cyclists wear helmets. Scooter share is new to Reno and I have heard that there are a lot of head injuries (one a week reported by some plastic surgeon offices). That could encourage local government here to pass helmet laws. When I was in Seattle I saw that all the scooters had helmets on them. I am wondering if the lack of experience on scooters makes local governments consider helmet laws for everyone to financially protect the scooter company and protect the city from liability when there is a lack of infrastructure? I have no evidence that there are more lawsuits against city or the companies. Just a thought.

https://www.explorethousand.com/blog...-laws-by-state
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Old 06-09-22, 02:26 PM
  #70  
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Originally Posted by kyplaskon View Post
Wow! I didn't know that. Thanks for bringing that up. It kind of makes the whole thing moot. But I guess it is not moot if there is pressure to make older cyclists wear helmets. Scooter share is new to Reno and I have heard that there are a lot of head injuries (one a week reported by some plastic surgeon offices). That could encourage local government here to pass helmet laws. When I was in Seattle I saw that all the scooters had helmets on them. I am wondering if the lack of experience on scooters makes local governments consider helmet laws for everyone to financially protect the scooter company and protect the city from liability when there is a lack of infrastructure? I have no evidence that there are more lawsuits against city or the companies. Just a thought.

https://www.explorethousand.com/blog...-laws-by-state
The issue is that the head injury stats for escooters are really bad, much worse than bikes.
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Old 06-09-22, 02:41 PM
  #71  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
The issue is that the head injury stats for escooters are really bad, much worse than bikes.
I have to admit that when I was on a knee scooter (while recovering from achilles tendon surgery), I didn't wear a helmet. Even though my peak speed was equivalent to slow running, where I also don't wear a helmet. (The parents who barely passed me while running behind a child in a stroller also didn't wear helmets.)

Once I graduated to a kick scooter (to work my atrophied leg), I started wearing a helmet, well, because world record marathon pace on a kick scooter felt a little bit wonky.

(The folks who can gracefully long board so fast with their hair blowing in the wind? Not me.)

Considering that most people who rent an escooter have never been on a scooter, let alone an escoooter, it's not surprising that things might go south. Helmet or no helmet.

-mr. bill

Last edited by mr_bill; 06-09-22 at 02:44 PM.
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Old 06-09-22, 06:12 PM
  #72  
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Originally Posted by mr_bill View Post
I have to admit that when I was on a knee scooter (while recovering from achilles tendon surgery), I didn't wear a helmet. Even though my peak speed was equivalent to slow running, where I also don't wear a helmet. (The parents who barely passed me while running behind a child in a stroller also didn't wear helmets.)

Once I graduated to a kick scooter (to work my atrophied leg), I started wearing a helmet, well, because world record marathon pace on a kick scooter felt a little bit wonky.

(The folks who can gracefully long board so fast with their hair blowing in the wind? Not me.)

Considering that most people who rent an escooter & that are usually intoxicated have never been on a scooter, let alone an escoooter, it's not surprising that things might go south. Helmet or no helmet.

-mr. bill
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Old 06-10-22, 08:18 AM
  #73  
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I was biking the other day, as far to the right as I reasonably could when an suv passed another car on the other side and the passing driver came a few feet away from me. A helmet may or may not have helped with a vehicle collision. From what I have seen drivers are more reckless than ever. Too bad the cops are not doing a better job. I was driving in a neighboring town last week when stopped by a lady cop for coming to a rolling stop, not a full stop. No ticket just a warning. Very pretty cop. A search in the NY database actually brought up a ticket I had paid (though they had not recorded in their DMV system) from 1991 150 miles away but under NY law even minor tickets can generate arrests, part of their get tough approach. Didn't mean to sidetrack this thread, but certainly the cops have been dormant to some extent over the last couple years, I hope they will do their jobs better. The one who stopped me makes well into the six figures.
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