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Drugs a significant health issue for cyclists?

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Drugs a significant health issue for cyclists?

Old 09-29-22, 10:10 AM
  #26  
CliffordK
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There are people who have had their driver's license taken away due to driving intoxicated, and turn to riding bicycles.

It would be a lot to expect those people to suddenly become sober.
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Old 09-29-22, 10:10 AM
  #27  
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Only users lose drugs.
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Old 09-29-22, 11:27 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
Obviously, neither of you actually read the study, the recommendations are really about how best to get resources out to disadvantaged people so their only transportation option is not riding while intoxicated, and how to more effectively treat people who are brought into the ER under these circumstances, including getting them treatment for drug and mental health problems.
They take great pains to delineate who these cyclists are likely to be and if they're talking about throwing money anywhere, it's into meeting the safety, transportation and health care needs of the very poor.

Sorry if those aren't the cyclists you think we should care about.
You are correct, however, I was pointing out the common expectations when anyone choose to pick up a bicycle habit.

Food for thought though; It's much easier to judge someone that is on a bicycle going 12mph of there lifestyle than it is of someone seated behind a door that's moving 50mph. If a bicycle rider doesn't give off "rich" vibes, they might be assumed to be up to no good or have made poor life decisions.
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Old 09-29-22, 11:34 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by Troul View Post
You are correct, however, I was pointing out the common expectations when anyone choose to pick up a bicycle habit.

Food for thought though; It's much easier to judge someone that is on a bicycle going 12mph of there lifestyle than it is of someone seated behind a door that's moving 50mph. If a bicycle rider doesn't give off "rich" vibes, they might be assumed to be up to no good or have made poor life decisions.

All of this might be relevant if this was an article on how to profile and judge problematic cyclists, but I don't think an approach to trying to figure out how to prevent them from ending up in the ER in the first place by providing them transportation alternatives and on effectively treating them when they do end up in the ER has the slightest bit to do with judging the person. Quite the opposite, the only judgment being made is that someone who ends up in such a predicament probably needs help on a few fronts.
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Old 09-29-22, 11:43 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
All of this might be relevant if this was an article on how to profile and judge problematic cyclists, but I don't think an approach to trying to figure out how to prevent them from ending up in the ER in the first place by providing them transportation alternatives and on effectively treating them when they do end up in the ER has the slightest bit to do with judging the person. Quite the opposite, the only judgment being made is that someone who ends up in such a predicament probably needs help on a few fronts.
I agree. The dangers of bicycling for those in need of transportation might compound the matters at hand that they are already dealing with.

We all have to start somewhere, all over again, though.
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Old 09-29-22, 11:56 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by rydabent View Post
People that use illegal drugs are absolutely stupid!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

They will get killed in traffic, they make good organ donors, and it cleans the gene pool.
still here.
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Old 09-29-22, 11:59 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by Iride01 View Post
Only two percent?
Certainly they did not include Austin Texas cyclists... Ha
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Old 09-29-22, 01:29 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by Chinghis View Post
That's not the kind of drugs they're talking about.

After you said you'd figured it would be higher, I though you were going to go in the direction of how much weed you can smell coming out of cars when you ride through the city. Heck, I smelled it this morning coming in to work.
On an early morning weekend ride last Saturday, I smelled it coming out of 5 different vehicles.
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Old 09-29-22, 03:23 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
.

1) The relative size of the problems has nothing to do with whether either, both or neither should be discussed as being primarily a "public health" problem. You've made no case for relabeling cars in this way other than they kill more people than are killed riding under the influence. That's not an argument that makes any sense.

RESPONSE: The relative size of the problem has everything to do with what we prioritize as public health problems. That is why the statistic is cited. The researchers make the argument that drugs seriously injure 2% of people and that makes drugs a significant health problem. Cars injure way more people and that would make cars a much more significant health problem.

2) No one here is arguing or has ever argued that the danger cars create for people should not be discussed nor that we should just give up advocacy. I have no problem with you being an advocate, I just think you're giving us a prime example of bad advocacy. My point is that you haven't said anything that makes me think that relabeling this as primarily a public health problem instead of a law enforcement/engineering/education/economic problem is going to move the ball in any meaningful way. And by denigrating unnecessarily a public health approach to an issue of drug abuse, you simply alienate people who actually consider the abandonment of the "war of drugs" approach a very important thing.

RESPONSE: My approach is to not be distracted from the real problem which is cars. This study distracts from that. As an advocate, it is important to keep our eye on the ball and not get distracted by a 1 or 2% problem and instead focus on what is 98% of the problem. That is a responsible advocacy approach.

3) Our entire economy is not reliant on drugs, and certainly nowhere near the extent that it is on motor vehicles. Crashing our economy would itself create a rash of public health problems, so even in terms of public health the range of structural reforms are constrained by that reality. Where are you going with this? Do you think cars should be eradicated as a public health scourge? Do you think the relabeling somehow will make that more palatable?

RESPONSE: The total value of pharmaceutical spending in the US in 2018 was $335 billion. Total spent on automobiles was $82 billion. Your assertion that changing the way we travel and live would crash the economy is alarmist and doesn't take into account the public health savings, vehicle savings, road maintenance savings and much much more. I think that the use of the automobile should be reduced and speeds reduced.

4) So you're ok with trucks, they can do whatever? I can't tell what you're actually identifying as the actual public health problem. If you mean all motor vehicles on roads, then good luck spelling out what the practical implications of getting them banned as public health problems. If it's just cars that are going to get banned, we already kind of did that when auto manufacturers figured out that trucks have lesser safety standards and invented the SUV as the category buster.

RESPONSE: Vehicles are a public health problem. No one suggested getting them banned. Those are your words, not mine.

5)Be careful, you're looking for medical people to weigh in on here. What makes you think they might not see the presence of cyclists on the road as being the public health problem? You think they're any more anxious to give up their SUVs than any other interest group?
RESPONSE: Hmmm, I hadn't thought of that. How do you anticipate a medical person might consider cycling a public health problem?
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Old 09-29-22, 03:26 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by kyplaskon View Post
University of Arkansas researchers are calling drugs a "Significant health issue" because 2 percent of people who are riding their bikes and are injured have drugs in their system.
I suspect more than 2% of people who are doing anything have drugs in their systems.
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Old 09-29-22, 06:50 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by bbbean View Post
I suspect more than 2% of people who are doing anything have drugs in their systems.
I agree. That's impossible to believe as stated. Have to assume there's more to that. Perhaps only testing for a limited number of drugs at a given level or higher.
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Old 09-29-22, 10:04 PM
  #37  
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So you're worried about 300 of the 900 cyclist fatalities a year??
AFAIK there's that many every DAY killed by Fentanyl.
I don't think there's 20 in a whole year of AB cyclists.
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Old 09-30-22, 05:23 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by kyplaskon View Post
RESPONSE: Hmmm, I hadn't thought of that. How do you anticipate a medical person might consider cycling a public health problem?

"Bicycle riding is by far the leading cause of brain injury in the United States."

It's not hard to imagine.
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Old 09-30-22, 05:40 AM
  #39  
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Seriously, the way op framed this thread is pretty gross and a bunch of people have bought into it. This was a study published in a journal dedicated to treatment of alcohol and drug abuse. Basically, they're addressing better treatment and prevention of casualty and morbidity among the population they're studying. 300 deaths and 11,000 major injuries per year are really big numbers in this context. I don't see why anyone can seriously object to the suggestions made in the study or why supposed bicycle advocates would want to. You want to engage in "these people deserve to die" kind of rhetoric, knock yourself out, but I think that says some pretty lousy things about you.
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Old 09-30-22, 05:42 AM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
There are people who have had their driver's license taken away due to driving intoxicated, and turn to riding bicycles.

It would be a lot to expect those people to suddenly become sober.

Read the damn study. They're addressing exactly that point.
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Old 09-30-22, 05:44 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by GamblerGORD53 View Post
So you're worried about 300 of the 900 cyclist fatalities a year??
AFAIK there's that many every DAY killed by Fentanyl.
I don't think there's 20 in a whole year of AB cyclists.

You've stumbled upon the real statistical issue here--it's 2% of bike accidents, but 1/3 of the fatalities.
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Old 09-30-22, 09:04 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by GamblerGORD53 View Post
So you're worried about 300 of the 900 cyclist fatalities a year??
Where did the number/stat of "300" come from and what is it supposed to represent?
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Old 09-30-22, 11:05 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
Where did the number/stat of "300" come from and what is it supposed to represent?

It sure didn't come from this study. ER's generally don't treat corpses.
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Old 10-03-22, 02:47 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by blacknbluebikes View Post
still here.
Same here.
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Old 10-04-22, 10:34 AM
  #45  
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From the article:
Thatís more than 2% of the total number of people treated for bike injuries in that time period.
2% seems very low. My experience with the general public is that far more than 2% are F'ed up on something at any given time, esp. the marginalized populations who are generally more likely to be using drugs and less likely to be driving automobile. And as for the 30% of that 2% with cannabis (pronounced kan-AW-bee) in their system, so only 0.6% of the population used in the study are using cannabis? I guess they didn't do their study at a mountain bike park in BC

I would bet that a statistical analysis looking from a different perspective would lead to the conclusion that biking while high is less dangerous. Or maybe just that people on drugs are less likely to go to the ER when they crash their bikes.
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Old 10-05-22, 04:54 AM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by ClydeClydeson View Post
From the article:
2% seems very low. My experience with the general public is that far more than 2% are F'ed up on something at any given time, esp. the marginalized populations who are generally more likely to be using drugs and less likely to be driving automobile. And as for the 30% of that 2% with cannabis (pronounced kan-AW-bee) in their system, so only 0.6% of the population used in the study are using cannabis? I guess they didn't do their study at a mountain bike park in BC

I would bet that a statistical analysis looking from a different perspective would lead to the conclusion that biking while high is less dangerous. Or maybe just that people on drugs are less likely to go to the ER when they crash their bikes.

I think it's a lot simpler than that--the people coming into the ER for bike injuries are not likely to be tested for drug use and the proportion is wildly understated. That likelihood is acknowledged in the study, they just don't know how much it's understated.
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Old 10-07-22, 08:45 AM
  #47  
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I can roll a spliff while biking drunk. Should I eloborate on my opinion on this?

Last edited by Stadjer; 10-07-22 at 09:47 AM.
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Old 10-07-22, 11:28 AM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by kyplaskon View Post
University of Arkansas researchers are calling drugs a "Significant health issue" because 2 percent of people who are riding their bikes and are injured have drugs in their system. Cars cause way more injuries than drugs. Why didn't they call cars a "significant health issue?" When are researchers going to stand up and say what is really threatening public health? https://www.healthline.com/health-ne...awing-concerns
Anyone that uses illegal drugs is an idiot, and that is probably why they use them.
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Old 10-07-22, 04:57 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by rydabent View Post
Anyone that uses illegal drugs is an idiot, and that is probably why they use them.
This statement probably suggests one of the faulty reasonings that is why we still after more than 50 years of drug enforcement haven't put a dent in drug misuse. We've just made the bad guys more dangerous.
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Old 10-08-22, 09:16 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by rydabent View Post
Anyone that uses illegal drugs is an idiot, and that is probably why they use them.
Nope, sorry, but you are way off base IME. One of my high school friends took his calculus final quite high on LSD, he was probably a genius, but I wasn't all that close to him to say for sure. I have had some idiotic and seedy friends over the years, but the only IV drug abusers I have known were a very intelligent nurse, and the other was a MD.
I might add, all the aforementioned people were quite caring and not prone to judgement about a huge segment of the general population.

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