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3 Reasons People Donít Bike That Policymakers Should Pay Attention To

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3 Reasons People Donít Bike That Policymakers Should Pay Attention To

Old 10-11-22, 05:11 AM
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Originally Posted by SalsaShark View Post
Of course there are. But what is their relevance in this particular thread?

Is that a joke? The question of this thread was figuring out why people don't ride. Why wouldn't you want to know what is keeping active people from choosing to ride unless you want to cook your results to make it "laziness"? BTW, the existence of the indoor cycling industry makes that explanation really funny.

There's a very practical reason for actually wanting to focus on this population, actually. If people don't want to be or can't be active, there's probably not much to be done to appeal to them, active people are already past that barrier. You might be able to do something policy wise that could change their aversion to riding.

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Old 10-11-22, 05:20 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by Miele Man View Post
The problem with many segregated bike lanes is that they put bicyclist into a more dangerous position at EVERY intersection including driveways and entrances/exists to parking lots. A lot of time a vehicle entering one of those can NOT see a bicyclist in the segregated bike lane because the bicyclist is hidden by another vehicle. This is especially so if the vehicle is a van or truck of some type. Curbside bike lanes with parked vehicles to the left (in North America) share this danger. Also how does a bicyclist in a segregated bicycle lane make a left-hand turn if the barrier is constant?

Cheers

There are well-designed and poorly designed bike lanes and laws. Whenever I see one of these blanket condemnations of the road position, I always end up wondering where this miraculous road position where you aren't vulnerable to the driveway/parked car combination is. People pull out of those driveways very fast and can't see around the parked cars. If I'm in the lane, I might actually be less likely to see this car exiting in time than if I was to the far right.
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Old 10-11-22, 06:55 AM
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
Is that a joke? The question of this thread was figuring out why people don't ride.
I believe the original list of barriers is pertaining to those folks who identify as people that would like to ride, but for some reason are not doing so. Simply 'not interested in cycling at all' would not be relevant to this discussion.
For example (in my area this is #1): "I would ride my bike to work but there are too many hills".

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Old 10-11-22, 07:57 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by Gear_Admiral View Post
That is s big factor in the USA: states. Because most Americans live in suburbs, their thinking changes to match their environment and imagining another environment is hard. To them, car dependency is natural and perhaps all they know and a bike lane to work does not provide value for them because work is 40 miles away. This too is "just the way the world is."

In such an environment, state-level politicians will not run on redesigning development to have networks of well connected dense towns, an end to subsidizing suburbia, or a boost to farm town infrastructure to help farmers bring goods to rail freight. Sadly, the state is where the money and power tend to be.

The municipality can swing politically in a positive way, but it can do some things well and others not well. If the town is poor, it may depend on the state for a lot.

Then some activists go to the extreme of the national government, which is like a hat trick: getting Congress and the presidency on board. In any case, the federal governmemt too often blindly throws money or just blindly entrusts the money for states to do whatever they want.

(The one key exception is trains. Getting Amtrak to own more rail lines outright would help service and maybe remove the lunatic but about needing to turn a profit (to pay to use private railroad tracks) when the highways hemorrhage money and no one cares.)

The state is so important. It should be at a higher level of focus.
For most people in the US, work is NOT 40 miles away.

To get to work, the average commuter travels approximately 15 miles one way. Two out of three com- muters (68 percent) reported a one-way commute of 15 miles or less, 22 percent traveled between 16 and 30 miles and 11 percent traveled more than 30 miles2.
https://heimduo.org/how-far-does-the...mmute-to-work/

So only 11 percent of commuters travel more than 30 miles... I think we don't have to worry much about those 40 mile commuters.

Now what is interesting is that when I searched for this on the web, most responses came back with "commute times." And most commute TIME had increased... largely due to more congestion. So if more folks rode bikes, the roads would be less crowded. Of course one's personal commute time and the likely ensuing shower upon arrival will be factored into bike commuting and thus "more time" will be spent if one bike commutes. But hey, you save all that time from going to the gym.

And sure, more and better designed rapid transit would help, as would better designed bike paths... but to get any of that, the US needs to shed "car culture." Or continue to suffer ever increasing commute times... sitting, frustrated in a car, just trying to go 15 miles or so.
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Old 10-11-22, 08:08 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by SalsaShark View Post
I believe the original list of barriers is pertaining to those folks who identify as people that would like to ride, but for some reason are not doing so. Simply 'not interested in cycling at all' would not be relevant to this discussion.
For example (in my area this is #1): "I would ride my bike to work but there are too many hills".
The stated reason for the research was
In this mixed-methods systematic review, we aimed to identify the perceived barriers and enablers to adults riding a bike for transport in Organisation for Economic Development (OECD) countries.
Adults’ self-reported barriers and enablers to riding a bike for transport: a systematic review

Also from the research paper
There are several studies that report the perceived barriers and enablers of riding a bike for transport in local populations, cited regularly throughout active transport-related literature. However, these study findings are often extrapolated to populations with potentially different circumstances.
You may believe that the original list of barriers referenced in the OP only pertained to those folks who identify as people that would like to ride, but that belief is not supported from what was written in the article nor in the OP.

Posters that claim that laziness is the explanation/reason why people don't bike derives from a proclivity for extrapolating personal opinions and prejudices about people who don't share their preferences or lifestyles
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Old 10-11-22, 08:13 AM
  #31  
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it might take someone the same amount of time to commute by vehicle as it would by bicycle, but the amount of times a person gets to use the bicycle might be not practical. IE: Poor weather, construction detours impeding ped's routes, getting hit & then dying while using the bicycle... ya know the typical expected things when commuting by a bicycle.
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Old 10-11-22, 08:56 AM
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The helmet law in Seattle was made moot by the bike, and now scooter, ride share companies, with the liability of having to provide sanitatized helmets. In reading the blog it appears to be more op-ed than factual.
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Old 10-11-22, 10:03 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by SalsaShark View Post
I believe the original list of barriers is pertaining to those folks who identify as people that would like to ride, but for some reason are not doing so. Simply 'not interested in cycling at all' would not be relevant to this discussion.
For example (in my area this is #1): "I would ride my bike to work but there are too many hills".
I-Like-To-Bike points out that isn't correct, there's nothing in the research question presented to suggest that, but even if there were, that's just playing semantics to get to the conclusion you want, that it's "just lazyness". "I'm not interested in riding because I'm afraid of getting hit by a car" may mean exsactly the same thing as "I'd like to bike, but I'm..."

Just admit you got this one wrong and move on.
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Old 10-11-22, 12:04 PM
  #34  
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There's an interesting concept out there that would both separate bikes from cars and also allow fast, direct non-stop cycling over considerable distances. And the "footprint" is already there. Bicycle skyway systems. Bike lanes built over or beside the existing freeways in our cities but as completely separate roadways. One is being proposed for Miami's waterfront loop. https://planzmiami.com/ The Portland advocate https://www.bikeskyway.org/

For this to work it will take the vision and commitment of an Eisenhower. (Our national freeway system.) An Eisenhower who gets that fossil fuel use, inactivity and obesity are our nation's biggest issues.

Everything about this concept is completely doable. Huge money spent, potential for huge payback. (Better health, lower medical costs, better air, less isolation. Commuting outside our personal cage? What a concept!) Funny timing. I just started reading American War, a 1984ish fiction of the Second Civil War, 2075. It portrays this country half a century from now if we continue our current path. This skyway system could be a part of the great change of course that we desperately need. And with electric bikes, anyone can do the climb up the ramps easily. No one can say it's too hard.

Do I have hope this will happen? Yes, I hope. But I also don't expect to see it in my lifetime. (Which will probably take me 1/3 of the way to that second civil war.) But every once in a while that person comes along who has the vision, that people hear and circumstances fall into place.
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Old 10-11-22, 12:40 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by Troul View Post
it might take someone the same amount of time to commute by vehicle as it would by bicycle,...
I'm not so much responding to your post, it's just that the above portion reminded me of when I use to commute to Norfolk from Virginia Beach. It was a 23-mile commute, one way. My co-workers were astounded that they did the same travel in just a slightly shorter period of time; what made it almost as fast as driving in a car is that the traffic in that area was horrible. Luckily it was mostly horrible on the freeways and of course if I ran into too much traffic, it was relatively easy, on a bike, to pass all that stuff up. What I especially loved was when road construction closed down a lane, but I could still ride in that lane on a bike

Using city map, I developed a route that took me on various backroads, but not thru residential areas that would have slowed me down way too much. Yes, they still beat me, but I got a workout in at the same time, much better than sitting in a car, cursing the traffic and to think they spent money for that aggravation .

The winters sucked but I was usually warmed up after the first six miles. I admit I drove when it was raining in the morning, but if it were raining in the afternoon, I just got wet.





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Old 10-12-22, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by work4bike View Post
I'm not so much responding to your post, it's just that the above portion reminded me of when I use to commute to Norfolk from Virginia Beach. It was a 23-mile commute, one way. My co-workers were astounded that they did the same travel in just a slightly shorter period of time; what made it almost as fast as driving in a car is that the traffic in that area was horrible. Luckily it was mostly horrible on the freeways and of course if I ran into too much traffic, it was relatively easy, on a bike, to pass all that stuff up. What I especially loved was when road construction closed down a lane, but I could still ride in that lane on a bike
Using city map, I developed a route that took me on various backroads, but not thru residential areas that would have slowed me down way too much. Yes, they still beat me, but I got a workout in at the same time, much better than sitting in a car, cursing the traffic and to think they spent money for that aggravation .
The winters sucked but I was usually warmed up after the first six miles. I admit I drove when it was raining in the morning, but if it were raining in the afternoon, I just got wet.
.
That's great that you were able to do that.

I'd be flirting with death every time I'd chance it vs taking a car. Much more likely to survive a crash while in a car than on a bicycle here. Until a true bicycle network is established that is safe from careless, reckless, criminal activity I dont ever seeing MI becoming a state to truly favor & promoting the use of cycling in general. It's all a cash grab political stunt as of now.
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Old 10-13-22, 03:30 AM
  #37  
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A lot of people comment about how rain keeps them from cycling.

However, they don't consider the downside of driving while it's raining too. First, unless you have underground or sheltered parking at both ends of your drive, you're going to have to walk in the rain before you get inside the car.

Secondly, you have to turn your fan on to keep your windshield from fogging up. Then when it becomes too warm you keep cycling between turning off the fan, get foggy windshield, open the window to let out the steam and closing them back up because you're getting all wet inside.

And if it snows, you're spending the first 15 minutes outside brushing and scraping ice off all your windows before you get in. By that time, you've brought all the wet inside with you.

On a bike, just dress for the conditions and go.
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Old 10-14-22, 11:08 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by Daniel4 View Post
Yes, it's called the separated bike lane.
Very simply, that is the answer. The cost would be prohibitive. In some places it's just not possible.
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Old 10-14-22, 11:21 AM
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quote: Secondly, you have to turn your fan on to keep your windshield from fogging up. Then when it becomes too warm you keep cycling between turning off the fan, get foggy windshield, open the window to let out the steam and closing them back up because you're getting all wet inside.

In any car with a/c this is not necessary as the air is run through a drier and keeps the windows from fogging.
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Old 10-14-22, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Paul Barnard View Post
Very simply, that is the answer. The cost would be prohibitive. In some places it's just not possible.
Unfortunately, those are nothing more than excuses. The cost per unit length for cars is many many times higher than what is required for a bicycle. So it's only political will that prevents bike lanes to be added where roads for cars are added or repaired. And it's been documented in a video by Mikael Colville-Andersen that roads for cars cost society money but lanes for bicycles earn money.
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Old 10-14-22, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by RB1-luvr View Post
quote: Secondly, you have to turn your fan on to keep your windshield from fogging up. Then when it becomes too warm you keep cycling between turning off the fan, get foggy windshield, open the window to let out the steam and closing them back up because you're getting all wet inside.

In any car with a/c this is not necessary as the air is run through a drier and keeps the windows from fogging.
There are many reasons for not running the a/c. First is the consumption of fuel. Second is that it could be fall or winter, as I did mention snow in my post.
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Old 10-14-22, 01:17 PM
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^^^ the "a/c" isn't just for cold air in hot weather. You can run the heat whilst in a/c mode. Most cars automatically switch to a/c when called to direct air to the windshield for this reason no matter the outside temp or precipitation (to run the air thru the drier).
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Old 10-14-22, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Daniel4 View Post
Unfortunately, those are nothing more than excuses. The cost per unit length for cars is many many times higher than what is required for a bicycle. So it's only political will that prevents bike lanes to be added where roads for cars are added or repaired. And it's been documented in a video by Mikael Colville-Andersen that roads for cars cost society money but lanes for bicycles earn money.
Toronto may have the money for it. Many of the metropolitan areas that I am aware of do not. New Orleans is one such area. I have read some information that is in agreement with the "bike lanes pay for themselves" contention. BUT, as is often the case you have to have money to make money.
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Old 10-14-22, 02:43 PM
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The problem I have with separated lanes, is that we seem to get the short end of the stick, in that at every intersection the bike has to yield to car traffic. At least that's been my experience. I see how they work in Amsterdam, but that's a lot of infrastructure to build. That may work in cramped cities...I don't know, because I don't live in a cramped cityscape, nor have I ever.

I would love to see a pilot-project, such as in LA, NYC or similar location to see how it works. My area is just not suited for that type of experiment.
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Old 10-14-22, 02:57 PM
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A/C is conditioning the air to remove moisture, & not just to cool the cabin.

Modern passenger vehicle hvac systems have greatly improved for efficiency.
just like automatic transmissions, they're more efficient than the traditional manual trans when it comes to shifting & maintaining the powerband. What they're challenged with is weight & complexity.
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Old 10-14-22, 11:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Daniel4 View Post
A lot of people comment about how rain keeps them from cycling.

However, they don't consider the downside of driving while it's raining too. First, unless you have underground or sheltered parking at both ends of your drive, you're going to have to walk in the rain before you get inside the car.

Secondly, you have to turn your fan on to keep your windshield from fogging up. Then when it becomes too warm you keep cycling between turning off the fan, get foggy windshield, open the window to let out the steam and closing them back up because you're getting all wet inside.

And if it snows, you're spending the first 15 minutes outside brushing and scraping ice off all your windows before you get in. By that time, you've brought all the wet inside with you.

On a bike, just dress for the conditions and go.

This is one of the dumbest things I've ever read. You dress for the condition of rain for walking to your car. It's called a rain coat or an umbrella. Getting a little moisture inside the car is no big deal. I do it all the time. You're going to need a lot more gear to ride comfortably in the rain, if that is even possible. I've driven and ridden through thunderstorms, it's easier to drive, the comparison isn't even close.

You have no idea how defogging works. Even without the AC, the air in the vents coming from outside will be dry enough to prevent fogging. If you need to roll your windows down, there's something wrong with your ventilation system. At the most, I might need to keep the windows cracked for the first few minutes until the interior air is roughly as dry as the outside air, or I can use the AC as a dehumidifier as the other posters have pointed out. Windows defog and defrost very quickly, once this is done, heat can be adjusted for comfort. If it's cold enough outside that you need to run a little heat to prevent refogging, it's not likely to be enough heat to be uncomfortable.

If there's enough snow and ice that I've got to scrape my car, there's likely enough ice that cycling is not going to be a lot of fun. There really aren't a lot of people who would prefer riding in icy cold to driving in their nice warm car, but at least be honest and admit that bicycling under those conditions requires a lot more clothing than driving. When I drive in the winter, I often don't even bother to wear a coat in the low 30s/high 20s. I'd die if I tried that on a bike.
I've done winter commuting on bikes, in cars, and by public transit. The car was by far the easiest and most comfortable of the lot. You could come up with a good case for year round bicycle commuting, but telling obvious lies about the relative ease is not going to do the job.

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Old 10-15-22, 09:53 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by JoeyBike View Post
That is a LOT of reasons!

I knew of them but seeing a complete listing on one page is eye opening for sure. I think the main reason people don't cycle to work where I live is for 4-5 months a year the temps are 90į-100įF, and the humidity is 80%-100%. It might be 89įF at DAYBREAK. Heat index could be 120į by 10 a.m.. By the time ppl get from their house to their car and fire up the A/C they are already dripping wet with sweat. Cycling to any job requiring good personal hygiene and nice clothing requires showering facilities, clothing lockers, and a slew of other things to even CONSIDER pedaling to work. It is possible for a seriously dedicated person, but I don't know many of those.
Good points. I'm sure having narrower streets with trees and not massive multi-lane roads with "clear zones" devoid of any shade at all would help, as would having changing rooms at work. Even if there is no shower, just changing out of one's clothes can go a long way. If you are fully cleaned before getting on the bike and remove all your clothing as soon as you get off of the bike, you don't really need a shower. I find the odors really come from sweat lingering on clothes and the typical, day-in day-out and nervous sweats to be much worse than exercise sweat. I am speaking of course of someone with a shaded commute under 5 miles. If you're having to bike more than that, yeah, a shower is a good idea because you were probably huffing and puffing to get to your destination in a reasonable amount of time.
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Old 10-16-22, 05:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Gear_Admiral View Post
Good points. I'm sure having narrower streets with trees and not massive multi-lane roads with "clear zones" devoid of any shade at all would help, as would having changing rooms at work. ...
I'm vacationing in Portugal right now and have been driving around in the past week. The roads and highways are very narrow forcing me to pay attention to everything, especially the rules of round-a-bouts. Everybody lets everybody pass. And drivers in fast moving vehicles have a lot of patience before they pass.

I just Googled and found the road fatality rankings of countries around the world. Portugal ranks 149 with 5.99 deaths per 100,000. The United States with its wide and fast roads rank 120 with 11.10 deaths per 100,000. Puzzling is why Canada is ranked better than both at 157 with 4.58 deaths per 100,000 since so much of our roads and highways are similar to the US.
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Old 10-17-22, 06:06 AM
  #49  
work4bike
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Old 10-17-22, 07:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Daniel4 View Post
That is only the opinion amongst 4% of cyclists who have used protected bike lanes.
Daniel, can you point me to the source of this stat? I've somehow missed this within the existing secondary research I've done.

-Kurt
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