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Hate towards cyclists

Old 02-07-23, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by base2
I showed him this video in another thread. Evidently there is an inability at self-reflection, too.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PkJlTKUaF3Q

The guy from the generation that stole everything for themselves calling others the "ME" generation. That's rich.
It was this thread as well.

The Me Generation IS the boomers:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Me_generation

He's calling himself out. I'm at the tail end of the boomer generation, so I guess I should take offense at being blamed here for the acts of a maniac but I can't seem to manage it.

On second thought, maybe he's onto something:
https://www.thedailybeast.com/aging-...murderous-ways

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Old 02-07-23, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by livedarklions
It was this thread as well.
Oh, shoot,You're right!
__________________
I shouldn't have to "make myself more visible;" Drivers should just stop running people over.

Car dependency is a tax.
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Old 02-07-23, 10:38 AM
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I am speaking for where I live. We get an overload of weekend warriors and charity rides. I go by what my local PD tells me, neighbors tell me, and my experience. Cyclists suck. I cannot tell you how many times I have been descending and one of the local clubs is crawling up the road 4 abreast close to forcing me into the ditch while on my bike....this happens ALL THE TIME on weekends. Cyclist sitting down in the road while another club member fixes a flat on the road surface. 3-4 abreast is never allowed where I live. It is 2 abreast IF someone is not behind you, in which case it is single file as far right as is safe. From my convos with motorists, those are the big issues why they hate us and they do hate us.
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Old 02-07-23, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by GhostRider62
I am speaking for where I live. We get an overload of weekend warriors and charity rides. I go by what my local PD tells me, neighbors tell me, and my experience. Cyclists suck. I cannot tell you how many times I have been descending and one of the local clubs is crawling up the road 4 abreast close to forcing me into the ditch while on my bike....this happens ALL THE TIME on weekends. Cyclist sitting down in the road while another club member fixes a flat on the road surface. 3-4 abreast is never allowed where I live. It is 2 abreast IF someone is not behind you, in which case it is single file as far right as is safe. From my convos with motorists, those are the big issues why they hate us and they do hate us.

Well, all I can tell you is that I literally NEVER see any of that here, and drivers are extremely hostile to cyclists here. I've ridden in places all over the US, and I've never experienced as much hostility as I do in NH. I drive all over the state as well, and have literally NEVER been inconvenienced as a driver significantly by a cyclist or group of cyclists. I'll take your word for cyclists being particularly ill-mannered where you live, but I won't take the words of drivers giving their excuse for hostile behavior around here because it's contrary to everything I observe around here as a cyclist and a driver.
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Old 02-07-23, 02:37 PM
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I can't really hit the road here in rural Alabama. There would be a high risk of Rednecks in big jacked up trucks tossing beers and texting, and Bulldogs. I do ride through nice quiet subdivisions sometimes and I am lucky enough to have hundreds of miles of near deserted gravel just 5 miles from my door.
I don't think anyone would be hostel toward me, other than the dogs, but I barely want to be in my truck on the road sometimes.
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Old 02-07-23, 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by GhostRider62
I am speaking for where I live. We get an overload of weekend warriors and charity rides. I go by what my local PD tells me, neighbors tell me, and my experience. Cyclists suck. I cannot tell you how many times I have been descending and one of the local clubs is crawling up the road 4 abreast close to forcing me into the ditch while on my bike....this happens ALL THE TIME on weekends. Cyclist sitting down in the road while another club member fixes a flat on the road surface. 3-4 abreast is never allowed where I live. It is 2 abreast IF someone is not behind you, in which case it is single file as far right as is safe. From my convos with motorists, those are the big issues why they hate us and they do hate us.
^^All this is why I quit club rides. In fact, one of our local counties (called "parishes" here) passed an ordinance stating that more than 5 cyclists together needs a parade permit, which would certainly be denied anyway. And I couldn't agree more. I was embarrassed to be with them AND if a rude group was behind me those annoyed motorists would take out their extra rage on me as well.

Originally Posted by RH Clark
I can't really hit the road here in rural Alabama. There would be a high risk of Rednecks in big jacked up trucks tossing beers and texting, and Bulldogs. I do ride through nice quiet subdivisions sometimes and I am lucky enough to have hundreds of miles of near deserted gravel just 5 miles from my door.
I don't think anyone would be hostel toward me, other than the dogs, but I barely want to be in my truck on the road sometimes.
While touring through rural Missouri - panniers front and rear - I was chased by two dogs that, I swear to God, looked like pit-bull heads on greyhound bodies. Normally I can outpace any dog but I was going uphill and these mutts were FAST. I didn't get bitten but it was super frightening. That said, I have been chased by thousands of dogs in rural areas and very few have terrified me. Dogs are one big reason I would never ride a recumbent in the RFD. I don't need my throat at eye level with snarling, drooling hounds.

For the Hillbillies, I make sure to wear something camouflaged and display a small "Stars and Stripes" flag on rear panniers. A Confederate battle flag would be nice but no telling who is sharing the road with me and I really don't want to enrage ANYBODY. At rest stop convenience stores it pays big dividends to be able to speak hunting and fishing fluently, both of which I used to enjoy many years ago.

Having a good sense of humor certainly helps. I can make fun of myself with the best of them. And unless someone actually HITS me, it's all part of the program. I make peace with those possibilities before the first pedal stroke, or like you, I don't go there.

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Old 02-07-23, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by JoeyBike
^^All this is why I quit club rides. In fact, one of our local counties (called "parishes" here) passed an ordinance stating that more than 5 cyclists together needs a parade permit, which would certainly be denied anyway. And I couldn't agree more. I was embarrassed to be with them AND if a rude group was behind me those annoyed motorists would take out their extra rage on me as well.



While touring through rural Missouri - panniers front and rear - I was chased by two dogs that, I swear to God, looked like pit-bull heads on greyhound bodies. Normally I can outpace any dog but I was going uphill and these mutts were FAST. I didn't get bitten but it was super frightening. That said, I have been chased by thousands of dogs in rural areas and very few have terrified me. Dogs are one big reason I would never ride a recumbent in the RFD. I don't need my throat at eye level with snarling, drooling hounds.

For the Hillbillies, I make sure to wear something camouflaged and display a small "Stars and Stripes" flag on rear panniers. A Confederate battle flag would be nice but no telling who is sharing the road with me and I really don't want to enrage ANYBODY. At rest stop convenience stores it pays big dividends to be able to speak hunting and fishing fluently, both of which I used to enjoy many years ago.

Having a good sense of humor certainly helps. I can make fun of myself with the best of them. And unless someone actually HITS me, it's all part of the program. I make peace with those possibilities before the first pedal stroke, or like you, I don't go there.
I'm just a reformed Hill Billi myself. I 've had lots of dog encounters and most are just chasers. I have however had two that really wanted a taste of me. One caused me to wreck, and with one I had to use my bike as a shield before getting him under control. It's mostly the driving on both sides of the road while texting that worries me. I have ridden low traffic back roads here and just got off the road when I heard a car. Only practical though on wider tire bikes.
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Old 02-07-23, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by livedarklions
The guy got out of his vehicle to beat the cyclist to death with a tire iron. That's not panic, that's just plain malice.
Is one case really enough to dismiss my argument?
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Old 02-07-23, 06:01 PM
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Originally Posted by holytrousers
Maybe it's not that bad. It seems that most agressive reactions come from inexperienced drivers unable to deal with the existing traffic where everyone wants to go faster and overcome them. What happens when they see a vulnerable cyclist is that their inability to deal with all their anxiety and the unexpected situation turns into panic and all the frustration simply overflows.
Originally Posted by holytrousers
Is one case really enough to dismiss my argument?
Can you point to any real life case, from anywhere, where any credible evidence supports your "argument"?
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Old 02-07-23, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by RH Clark
...I have ridden low traffic back roads here and just got off the road when I heard a car. Only practical though on wider tire bikes.
Smart! I've done that hundreds of times, especially in the Ozarks/Ouchita mountains with all of the chicken trucks on curvy roads. Virginia had not one inch of space between tarmac and ditch so I had some REALLY close calls in that state.
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Old 02-07-23, 07:40 PM
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We have a lot of club riders on the roads I ride. They all come past my house. They often ride 3 or 4 abreast but it doesn't really have an adverse impact on drivers. If they road single file they'd stretch out much further and you'd never get a shot at passing them. There aren't that many places where you can pass on the local rural roads so you might occasionally get stuck behind a group for as much as three miles. But that really only adds a couple minutes to your trip. Even when I'm late for a tee time it hasn't been a great inconvenience.

I ride solo and never have a problem with hostile drivers. I don't know how they feel about the groups but they don't mind me. If I'm on the road side with a mechanical or riding in the pouring rain the rednecks in pick up trucks often offer me a ride home. I'm lucky I suppose to live in such a great place to ride. And I can do a century from my front door without ever hitting a traffic light.
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Old 02-08-23, 05:41 AM
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The video on this page shows coal rolling. When you look at the cyclists they are single file and out of the lane.

https://www.bicyclelaw.com/legally-s...g-and-illegal/

The truth is that most of the hate toward cyclists is misplaced and grossly out of proportion to any inconvenience the motorists "suffer."

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Old 02-08-23, 07:15 AM
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Originally Posted by JoeyBike
^^All this is why I quit club rides. In fact, one of our local counties (called "parishes" here) passed an ordinance stating that more than 5 cyclists together needs a parade permit, which would certainly be denied anyway. And I couldn't agree more. I was embarrassed to be with them AND if a rude group was behind me those annoyed motorists would take out their extra rage on me as well.



While touring through rural Missouri - panniers front and rear - I was chased by two dogs that, I swear to God, looked like pit-bull heads on greyhound bodies. Normally I can outpace any dog but I was going uphill and these mutts were FAST. I didn't get bitten but it was super frightening. That said, I have been chased by thousands of dogs in rural areas and very few have terrified me. Dogs are one big reason I would never ride a recumbent in the RFD. I don't need my throat at eye level with snarling, drooling hounds.

For the Hillbillies, I make sure to wear something camouflaged and display a small "Stars and Stripes" flag on rear panniers. A Confederate battle flag would be nice but no telling who is sharing the road with me and I really don't want to enrage ANYBODY. At rest stop convenience stores it pays big dividends to be able to speak hunting and fishing fluently, both of which I used to enjoy many years ago.

Having a good sense of humor certainly helps. I can make fun of myself with the best of them. And unless someone actually HITS me, it's all part of the program. I make peace with those possibilities before the first pedal stroke, or like you, I don't go there.
Me too.

The last straw was a maybe 6 group riders on a club ride sat on the pavement at an intersection regrouping after a climb and a car came around the corner and had to swerve off the road to miss them. Of course, they cursed at the wreckless driver, she was fortunate not to wreck. When I said they need to get off the road, they looked at me like I was out of my mind. This club always rides 3-4 abreast taking 2/3 of the road surface. Cars coming the OTHER direction have to stop and nearly go into the ditch. Ditch because as you know, country roads are narrow and there is a deep ditch for drainage. Just utterly rude, inconsiderate, and illegal. I literally see this every single weekend ride in season. Motorists do hate us and I resent having to take grief because lousy Princeton Freeloaders bike club.
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Old 02-08-23, 07:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Paul Barnard
The video on this page shows coal rolling. When you look at the cyclists they are single file and out of the lane.

https://www.bicyclelaw.com/legally-s...g-and-illegal/

The truth is that most of the hate toward cyclists is misplaced an grossly out of proportion to any inconvenience the motorists "suffer."
The hate is real, for some motor vehicle operators, that is never going to go away. Many drivers want search, or make up a reason to hate cyclists. When a vehicle operator, no matter that there is no other traffic, nor are they being held up or inconvenienced in any way, yet slow down and yell, or lay on the horn, or roll coal, that is assault. I cannot remember how many times these things have happened to me. The only inconvenience for the driver was them slowing down to make the assault. Until laws regarding cycling and motor vehicles are enforced, until the 'I'll never change" dinosaurs die off, nothing is going to change. I know my reacting in an aggressive way is not doing me any good, but, being passive when assaulted, gets very stale. I try not to, but sometimes react without forethought. Does that make me feel better? No, it usually just affects my ride and contentment in a negative way. I hope this never happens, but, if a vehicle operator ever gets out of their vehicle to confront me, I truthfully do not know how I would react. I can say that, if necessary, I will defend myself in any way that, from my perspective, is necessary, damn the consequences.
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Old 02-08-23, 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted by JoeyBike

Having a good sense of humor certainly helps. I can make fun of myself with the best of them. And unless someone actually HITS me, it's all part of the program. I make peace with those possibilities before the first pedal stroke, or like you, I don't go there.
Really? The same guy who posted videos of himself banging on cars while riding makes immediate peace with someone throwing things at him and accepts it as "part of the program?" Nah, my BS meter is pegged on this one.

A miss, and it's all good. A hit, and then what? Bicyclists were being shot and shot at here in NOLA a few years back. Is a miss just "part of the program?" You won't take me up on the offer, but please feel free to elaborate on the position that you stake out.

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Old 02-08-23, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by GhostRider62
Me too.

The last straw was a maybe 6 group riders on a club ride sat on the pavement at an intersection regrouping after a climb and a car came around the corner and had to swerve off the road to miss them. Of course, they cursed at the wreckless driver, she was fortunate not to wreck. When I said they need to get off the road, they looked at me like I was out of my mind. This club always rides 3-4 abreast taking 2/3 of the road surface. Cars coming the OTHER direction have to stop and nearly go into the ditch. Ditch because as you know, country roads are narrow and there is a deep ditch for drainage. Just utterly rude, inconsiderate, and illegal. I literally see this every single weekend ride in season. Motorists do hate us and I resent having to take grief because lousy Princeton Freeloaders bike club.
I have often noticed an apparent entitlement mentality shown by riding groups. I've noticed this as a bike rider as well as a driver. In grocery stores I have noticed shoppers zooming out of an aisle seemingly unaware that other people are also shopping. I have noticed an apparent discard by day hikers coming down the trail not giving the backpacker climbing. I do believe it is not always intentional. I've noticed motorists ignoring stop signs.

The other day I was riding and came to an intersection. I didn't have a stop sign, but the other street did. When I didn't stop, the stopped pickup started forward and came to a stop with hands pointing to a non existent stops sign.

I do think it is possible for humans to be oblivious. I do not think it is because they are mean or bad, just distracted or unaware.
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Old 02-08-23, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by holytrousers
Is one case really enough to dismiss my argument?

No, I dismiss your argument because it doesn't comport with my experience and you offer absolutely no evidence for a rather extraordinary claim. This is a remarkable bit of mass psychoanalysis on your part.

I also suspect that there are going to be huge cultural differences internationally and even within the same country as to attitudes of drivers towards cyclists, so for all I know, you could be right in some places and completely wrong in others. I don't think this is just a matter of drivers ed in the US, however.
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Old 02-08-23, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by livedarklions
What generation exactly is the ME generation? I'm pretty sure that term was first applied to your generation (boomers), which was an extremely violent one in its youth.

"Old guy straining to make this a generational issue"" is not a good look, and I'm pretty sure you don't have any empirical proof to make these broad generalizations.
Boomers violent???? Not at all, we were part of the silent generation. BTW at 84 I am part of the pre-boomer generation. And young people didnt go nutz untill the hippies of the late 60s.
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Old 02-08-23, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by rydabent
Boomers violent???? Not at all, we were part of the silent generation. BTW at 84 I am part of the pre-boomer generation. And young people didnt go nutz untill the hippies of the late 60s.
Oops, you're older than I remembered. Your point is still stupid, though, as the ME generation is currently in their very late 50s, 60s and 70s, and subsequent generations have been less violent than they were when they were in prime crime-committing age.

And you think hippies are the problem, now? Have you been in suspended animation for the past 50 years?
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Old 02-08-23, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by GhostRider62
Me too.

The last straw was a maybe 6 group riders on a club ride sat on the pavement at an intersection regrouping after a climb and a car came around the corner and had to swerve off the road to miss them. Of course, they cursed at the wreckless driver, she was fortunate not to wreck. When I said they need to get off the road, they looked at me like I was out of my mind. This club always rides 3-4 abreast taking 2/3 of the road surface. Cars coming the OTHER direction have to stop and nearly go into the ditch. Ditch because as you know, country roads are narrow and there is a deep ditch for drainage. Just utterly rude, inconsiderate, and illegal. I literally see this every single weekend ride in season. Motorists do hate us and I resent having to take grief because lousy Princeton Freeloaders bike club.

I take your point that the bad behavior of group riders can make drivers in the area particularly hostile, I've also taken some grief on this forum for arguing that large group rides actually demand privileges on the road that virtually no one else has (the possible exception being funeral processions).

I just don't think this phenomenon is widespread enough to explain all of the hostility that is out there, and am wary of anything that smacks of an excuse for the really awful acts of raging drivers.
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Old 02-08-23, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by rydabent
Boomers violent???? Not at all, we were part of the silent generation. BTW at 84 I am part of the pre-boomer generation. And young people didnt go nutz untill the hippies of the late 60s.
They appeared to be violent because of their response to police brutality when they marched for civil rights, women's liberation and against the Vietnam War.
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Old 02-08-23, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Daniel4
They appeared to be violent because of their response to police brutality when they marched for civil rights, women's liberation and against the Vietnam War.

This has FA to do with cycling, but that isn't correct in the US. Statistically, it really was the most violent generation in modern US history.
The idea that started with "hippies" is completely ludicrous.
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Old 02-08-23, 04:14 PM
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Fear breeds more fear. Emotions are easy to escalate, how about some rational thinking ?
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Old 02-08-23, 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by delbiker1
...slow down and yell, or lay on the horn, or roll coal, that is assault.
A few posts up on this thread I wrote something like: "As long as they don't hit me it's all good". One exception - touring solo in Missouri (maybe Illinois) I had a semi pass me and right at the perfect moment he laid on the air horn. Nothing in the opposing lane. Tried to scare me off the bike to watch me crash i imagine. That did not work but my left ear hurt for a few days. Yeah - that's assault fo sho. The rolling coal, close pass stuff I usually see coming in my mirror (helmet mounted) and just write that off as part of the touring experience. In fact, if someone smokes me out real good I find it sort of funny, like I should present them a trophy or something.

I had a car load of high school kids just leaving school end of day try to squeeze me off the road into a deep ditch (Virginia). I saw it coming in my mirror and just stopped pedaling. The rear bumper missed me by a couple feet but was so aggressive that their right rear wheel left the tarmac catching the edge at the ditch and tossed the car all over both lanes of the highway nearly spinning and flipping at the same time. A couple wheels actually left the ground. Somehow the driver regained control. However, all the kids were looking back to watch me get launched into the ditch so I got to see their faces for a moment as the car lost control and scrambled up everyone not wearing a seat belt. They missed me but I believe it was a sincere attempt to make contact. That's assault.


Originally Posted by delbiker1
...The only inconvenience for the driver was them slowing down to make the assault...
Right!!??

Q: If they are in such a rush to get somewhere, how do they have time to slow/stop to F with me? Answer: Because they aren't in a rush, they resent me preventing them from realizing their "God given right" to proceed unimpeded.
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Old 02-09-23, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Paul Barnard
Really? The same guy who posted videos of himself banging on cars while riding makes immediate peace with someone throwing things at him and accepts it as "part of the program?" Nah, my BS meter is pegged on this one.

A miss, and it's all good. A hit, and then what? Bicyclists were being shot and shot at here in NOLA a few years back. Is a miss just "part of the program?" You won't take me up on the offer, but please feel free to elaborate on the position that you stake out.
Man, am I good at this or what? LOL.
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